19+ Lifter Failures

[ironmike]

Can anyone help with any update to any lifter failures or experiences? I am being told, my 2020 HO6.7 could have future lifter failure & if deleted Ram will not cover warranty repair/replacements...? What is the issues to lifter failure happening? I only have ran Valvoline 5/40 Full Synthetic since new & 45 k mile currently. Valve train sounds quiet.. Thank y'all!!

 

[Brutal_HO]

Sounds like someone is watching too many PD Diesel youtubes.

 

[ironmike]

Sounds like someone is watching too many PD Diesel youtubes.

Nah, was literally quoted by 2 legit shops today… checking on a full delete.. he’s doing his 1st lifter job without full engine removal… he just reviewed correct tool for this… would appreciate legit correspondences , no armchair QB’s…

 

[Brutal_HO]

Nah, was literally quoted by 2 legit shops today… checking on a full delete.. he’s doing his 1st lifter job without full engine removal… he just reviewed correct tool for this… would appreciate legit correspondences , no armchair QB’s…

Well if you're going full delete, then just go full send on a solid lifter conversion.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Can anyone help with any update to any lifter failures or experiences? I am being told, my 2020 HO6.7 could have future lifter failure & if deleted Ram will not cover warranty repair/replacements...? What is the issues to lifter failure happening? I only have ran Valvoline 5/40 Full Synthetic since new & 45 k mile currently. Valve train sounds quiet.. Thank y'all!!

Lifter failure is not common and from what i have seen it seems to be the people running 10w30

BTW all 5w40 is full synthetic there is no other way to get 5w40… my 19 is also quiet as a mouse and fully deleted

 

[mbarber84]

I can’t recall where I saw this, but it warranted keeping it in my “truck files” in reference to the lifter issue. Sounds like they’re investigating into the lifters more. I have a connection (Ram tech) on the eastern side of the state. He’s done multiple lifter replacement jobs. He’s found there are at least four different variations on the actual lifter design. He’s pulled different designs out of the same engine. Notice the differences in the grooves on each of the three shown below. There exists another “version” with a slightly different groove design. “They” have been tweaking these things over time. Not sure “they” have a handle on it yet. I do think it’s becoming a more frequent issue than what we’re to believe.

 

[mbarber84]

Lifter failure is not common and from what i have seen it seems to be the people running 10w30

BTW all 5w40 is full synthetic there is no other way to get 5w40… my 19 is also quiet as a mouse and fully deleted

I don’t think it’s an oil issue.
Lifters have failed in the exact same manner in both 10w30 and 5w40 situations. The tech im in contact with has seen the failure in both pretty much equally.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I don’t think it’s an oil issue.
Lifters have failed in the exact same manner in both 10w30 and 5w40 situations. The tech im in contact with has seen the failure in both pretty much equally.

The only failures i had seen online were 10w30 but if they are both failing thats crap..

 

[ironmike]

Well if you're going full delete, then just go full send on a solid lifter conversion.

Right?! But its not as prone as the grid heater bolt or CP4 explosion, or 68rfe grenading, so whats the deciding factor? Do all of the upgrades and improvements?l Lol!

 

[ironmike]

Lifter failure is not common and from what i have seen it seems to be the people running 10w30

BTW all 5w40 is full synthetic there is no other way to get 5w40… my 19 is also quiet as a mouse and fully deleted

yes, correct , only syn i have run...I appreciate the insight!

 

[ironmike]

I can’t recall where I saw this, but it warranted keeping it in my “truck files” in reference to the lifter issue. Sounds like they’re investigating into the lifters more. I have a connection (Ram tech) on the eastern side of the state. He’s done multiple lifter replacement jobs. He’s found there are at least four different variations on the actual lifter design. He’s pulled different designs out of the same engine. Notice the differences in the grooves on each of the three shown below. There exists another “version” with a slightly different groove design. “They” have been tweaking these things over time. Not sure “they” have a handle on it yet. I do think it’s becoming a more frequent issue than what we’re to believe. View attachment 63654
View attachment 63656View attachment 63657

Curious if this is the culpret for failure, oil groves? seems unlikeley but possible?

 

[mbarber84]

The only failures i had seen online were 10w30 but if they are both failing thats crap..

He said he’s actually seen more trucks with failed lifters running 5w40 than 10w30. And we’re in PA so it’s not really “cold” here. We rarely see subzero temp and for the past five years or so, our winters have been generally mild in comparison to what they were 20-30 years ago. I’d say generally our average winter lows for the past 3-5 years have been in the 20’s. Maybe an occasion dip into the teens, single digits, or rarely a sub zero.

Personally I think a lot of these lifter failures are attributable to several factors. Maybe some of which combine to make matters even worse.

1. The use of poor quality aftermarket oil and air filters. Some of the filters are so poorly manufactured you can tear the media out with your hands with very little effort. The cheap filters are absolutely letting more contaminants past, especially when they’re pushed to long intervals like 15k miles.

2. Using mediocre, subpar, or incorrect engine oils (like 15w40) and running them beyond their useful life. (There’s a common misconception among owners that these truck can always go to 15,000 miles without an issue. That isn’t the case, and regular oil analysis can prove that.

3. Owners failing to monitor their active regeneration cycle frequency and not noticing that their trucks are regenerating more frequently than they should be. This can significantly increase fuel dilution in the oil and reduce its lubrication. Lifters and cam would be very susceptible to increased wear from a drop in oil viscosity. (Also a reason for regular oil analysis and more frequent changes when called for.)

4. Long periods of idle time at lower oil pressure.

5. Metallurgical or physical imperfections in lifters and cams as parts are sourced from various suppliers

 

[mbarber84]

Curious if this is the culpret for failure, oil groves? seems unlikeley but possible?

Those grooves have changed several times over the course of production. I’ve seen pictures of three different variations on those grooves as well as one type that has no grooves at all. Friend of mine is a highly certified Cummins field tech in the west. He’s told me that the smooth bores are supposedly the newest style. Older ones had the oil grooves but after field testing Cummins found that those grooves tended to carry trash more so than clean oil and the idea was subsequently abandoned in favor of ones with no grooves. Like he said to me, a lot of this is word of mouth being passed down in bits and pieces from the higher up technical people. When they have issues like this, they generally fix them behind closed doors and rarely allow these things to get out into the open.

 

[elephantrider]

I've yet to have a 68 issue, a cp4 issue, bolt issue, or lifter issue in 82k miles. 2 of the 4 are a non issue thanks to me. we'll see how far I get with the lifters and trans lol no regens to worry about and always run 10w30 syn.

 

[Blythkd1]

Personally I think a lot of these lifter failures are attributable to several factors. Maybe some of which combine to make matters even worse.

3. Owners failing to monitor their active regeneration cycle frequency and not noticing that their trucks are regenerating more frequently than they should be. This can significantly increase fuel dilution in the oil and reduce its lubrication. Lifters and cam would be very susceptible to increased wear from a drop in oil viscosity. (Also a reason for regular oil analysis and more frequent changes when called for.)

I would have figured cam and lifter wear are significantly reduced now with the roller lifters? Have there been reports of cam lobe/lifter roller wear?

 

[mbarber84]

I would have figured cam and lifter wear are significantly reduced now with the roller lifters? Have there been reports of cam lobe/lifter roller wear?

Yeah the tech I talk to regularly said cam wear is common with these failures. In fact in some cases, the cam is more worn than the lifter is damaged. Seem like the older trucks had the grooved lifters and the newer ones were using smooth external lifters. Some of the trucks had smooth and grooved lifters in the same engine. The ones with grooved lifters exhibited more accelerated wear on the cam lobes than the ones with the smooth external

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I ha

He said he’s actually seen more trucks with failed lifters running 5w40 than 10w30. And we’re in PA so it’s not really “cold” here. We rarely see subzero temp and for the past five years or so, our winters have been generally mild in comparison to what they were 20-30 years ago. I’d say generally our average winter lows for the past 3-5 years have been in the 20’s. Maybe an occasion dip into the teens, single digits, or rarely a sub zero.

Personally I think a lot of these lifter failures are attributable to several factors. Maybe some of which combine to make matters even worse.

1. The use of poor quality aftermarket oil and air filters. Some of the filters are so poorly manufactured you can tear the media out with your hands with very little effort. The cheap filters are absolutely letting more contaminants passed, especially when they’re pushed to long intervals like 15k miles.

2. Using mediocre, subpar, or incorrect engine oils (like 15w40) and running them beyond their useful life. (There’s a common misconception among owners that these truck can always go to 15,000 miles without an issue. That isn’t the case, and regular oil analysis can prove that.

3. Owners failing to monitor their active regeneration cycle frequency and not noticing that their trucks are regenerating more frequently than they should be. This can significantly increase fuel dilution in the oil and reduce its lubrication. Lifters and cam would be very susceptible to increased wear from a drop in oil viscosity. (Also a reason for regular oil analysis and more frequent changes when called for.)

4. Long periods of idle time at lower oil pressure.

5. Metallurgical or physical imperfections in lifters and cams as parts are sourced from various suppliers

I have a ton of idle hrs from plowing so i don't think that would be a factor or i would have a lifter issue for sure… there are lots of high millage trucks without issue so its curious to me what the actual issue is but it seems to be hit and miss. The different lifters could be the issue but i hear more issues in the 20/21s vs the 19s but that does not make it fact just what i have seen

 

[mbarber84]

I ha

I have a ton of idle hrs from plowing so i don't think that would be a factor or i would have a lifter issue for sure… there are lots of high millage trucks without issue so its curious to me what the actual issue is but it seems to be hit and miss. The different lifters could be the issue but i hear more issues in the 20/21s vs the 19s but that does not make it fact just what i have seen

Probably not any one of those points by itself. Probably takes a few of those added together to start generating the scenario for premature failure. It’ll be interesting to see if any TSB’s or RSU’s come out of their research into this issue. Will also be interesting to see if the hydraulic valvetrain sticks around for 2025.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Probably not any one of those points by itself. Probably takes a few of those added together to start generating the scenario for premature failure. It’ll be interesting to see if any TSB’s or RSU’s come out of their research into this issue. Will also be interesting to see if the hydraulic valvetrain sticks around for 2025.

Hydraulic lifters are nothing new they just need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel! Solids were fine too its not hard to adjust lash every couple of years i would be interested to see what 2025 has in store

 

[mbarber84]

Hydraulic lifters are nothing new they just need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel! Solids were fine too its not hard to adjust lash every couple of years i would be interested to see what 2025 has in store

You can thank Ram for that. Supposedly “one of their largest complaints on the diesel pickups was cabin noise”. (Find that hard to believe).

But their quest to reduce NVH is what resulted in the hydraulic set up. The commercial ISB’s are still using flat tappets and solid lifters. That would’ve been just fine with me. I’m ok if it sounds like a farm tractor, so long as it’s reliable.