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19+ Lifter Failures

mbarber84 said:
Yeah the tech I talk to regularly said cam wear is common with these failures. In fact in some cases, the cam is more worn than the lifter is damaged. Seem like the older trucks had the grooved lifters and the newer ones were using smooth external lifters. Some of the trucks had smooth and grooved lifters in the same engine. The ones with grooved lifters exhibited more accelerated wear on the cam lobes than the ones with the smooth external
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Well that's certainly discouraging. It's beyond me how you would have any wear on the cam lobes with rollers. They ran flat tappets for years without issue now with rollers we have to be very conscious of the oil we use and our idle time? SMH
 
mbarber84 said:
You can thank Ram for that. Supposedly “one of their largest complaints on the diesel pickups was cabin noise”. (Find that hard to believe).

But their quest to reduce NVH is what resulted in the hydraulic set up. The commercial ISB’s are still using flat tappets and solid lifters. That would’ve been just fine with me. I’m ok if it sounds like a farm tractor, so long as it’s reliable.
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Yea i know the pansys were the issue thinking a diesel needed to be quieter than they already were. The 13-18s were already super quiet and to be honest i am fine with the 12V noise as it was reliable
 
Blythkd1 said:
Well that's certainly discouraging. It's beyond me how you would have any wear on the cam lobes with rollers. They ran flat tappets for years without issue now with rollers we have to be very conscious of the oil we use and our idle time? SMH
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The roller is not the issue its the hydraulics if it was a solid roller lifter it would be problem free
 
Blythkd1 said:
Well that's certainly discouraging. It's beyond me how you would have any wear on the cam lobes with rollers. They ran flat tappets for years without issue now with rollers we have to be very conscious of the oil we use and our idle time? SMH
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Accelerated cam wear is inevitable when a hydraulic lifter fails, especially if the failure isn’t noticed right away and the truck is continually run with a bad lifter. Without the hydraulic portion of the lifter working, The roller can “slap” or “bounce” on the cam and wear the lobe down.
 
mbarber84 said:
Accelerated cam wear is inevitable when a hydraulic lifter fails, especially if the failure isn’t noticed right away and the truck is continually run with a bad lifter. Without the hydraulic portion of the lifter working, The roller can “slap” or “bounce” on the cam and wear the lobe down.
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Gotcha. That makes sense.
 
Blythkd1 said:
Gotcha. That makes sense.
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This is also why it’s really important to pay attention to the sounds and be able to identify where it’s coming from. The Cummins doesn’t make the sound as easy to hear but if it’s there, continued driving needs to be suspended because it will absolutely worsen. Ultimately if you do experience a lifter failure, I would think twice before having OEM parts put back in. If you plan to keep the truck a while, investing in the solid lifter conversion might be a worthwhile venture.
 
The lifters can also rotate a bit in the bore due to the square keyway for a round hole....here are my lifters and cam....34k miles....wagler did my conversion with their cam and jessel one piece solids....
 

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IndyRamMega said:
The lifters can also rotate a bit in the bore due to the square keyway for a round hole....here are my lifters and cam....34k miles....wagler did my conversion with their cam and jessel one piece solids....
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So your truck was one of the ones to have different lifters within the same engine. Were the ones with grooves the same ones where can damage occurred?
 
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mbarber84 said:
This is also why it’s really important to pay attention to the sounds and be able to identify where it’s coming from. The Cummins doesn’t make the sound as easy to hear but if it’s there, continued driving needs to be suspended because it will absolutely worsen. Ultimately if you do experience a lifter failure, I would think twice before having OEM parts put back in. If you plan to keep the truck a while, investing in the solid lifter conversion might be a worthwhile venture.
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Way easier said than done I feel. Any description you can give of a lifter going bad? The lifters on these 19+ trucks sound different to start, and it's not super clear to me what one going bad would sound like.
 
mbarber84 said:
So your truck was one of the ones to have different lifters within the same engine. We’re the ones with grooves the same ones where can damage occurred?
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That I don't know...they did say that one was the intake and the other was the exhaust side but I don't remember which was which....
 
UglyViking said:
Way easier said than done I feel. Any description you can give of a lifter going bad? The lifters on these 19+ trucks sound different to start, and it's not super clear to me what one going bad would sound like.
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Get the oil up to operating temperature, park the truck and leave it idling at low speed. Get out and stick your head in the driver wheel well and listen to the engine. There are pretty pronounced “clicks” or “ticks” that occur in a rhythm. If you don’t hear anything, go back in the cab and engage the high idle, then increase the high idle speed to its maximum 1,500rpm limit. Go back and stick your head in the driver wheel well again and listen. See if you can hear the click or tick sound then. It’s hard to describe in words but pretty noticeable in person. It’ll come from the driver side of the engine because that’s where the cam and lifters are.
 
So it sounds like it's a craps shoot as to what would be causing lifters failures... What would the cost be to do a solid lifter conversion? I heard the engine would have to be removed from truck due to having to be removed from bottom of engine.
 
ironmike said:
So it sounds like it's a craps shoot as to what would be causing lifters failures... What would the cost be to do a solid lifter conversion? I heard the engine would have to be removed from truck due to having to be removed from bottom of engine.
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They can lift the cab and leave it be....it depends on which remedy you choose....do you want to use the stock lifters with a solid spacer that deletes the hydraulic portion or do you want a complete replacement with the jessel lifters? The cam is like 800 bucks and imo if you're in there you might as well....if you go on waglers website you can look at the cost difference but I'll tell you my experience....I went full replacement with the jessels and waglers cam....the kit comes with Manton Pushrods and 4th gen style rockers....that kit alone was 4600...add the oil change...gaskets and other ancillary items...8k for the lifter conversion....btw...the jessels are 1000 HP rated so if you upgrade other parts in the future unless you're sled pulling you'll be fine with the valve train....
 
ironmike said:
So it sounds like it's a craps shoot as to what would be causing lifters failures... What would the cost be to do a solid lifter conversion? I heard the engine would have to be removed from truck due to having to be removed from bottom of engine.
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No you can take the front of the truck apart and do it that way
 
IndyRamMega said:
They can lift the cab and leave it be....it depends on which remedy you choose....do you want to use the stock lifters with a solid spacer that deletes the hydraulic portion or do you want a complete replacement with the jessel lifters? The cam is like 800 bucks and imo if you're in there you might as well....if you go on waglers website you can look at the cost difference but I'll tell you my experience....I went full replacement with the jessels and waglers cam....the kit comes with Manton Pushrods and 4th gen style rockers....that kit alone was 4600...add the oil change...gaskets and other ancillary items...8k for the lifter conversion....btw...the jessels are 1000 HP rated so if you upgrade other parts in the future unless you're sled pulling you'll be fine with the valve train....
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Thanks! Was also advised, there is a special tool developed that allows full lifter conversion from the top without cab movement or engine removal? Any truth to this?
 
ironmike said:
Thanks! Was also advised, there is a special tool developed that allows full lifter conversion from the top without cab movement or engine removal? Any truth to this?
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Ive heard you can turn the engine over and take them out from the top but they gotta be installed thru the cam hole...
 
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