19+ Lifter Failures

[H3LZSN1P3R]

It needs to begin as a recall. But ultimately there needs to be a significant change. I’ll keep saying the same thing: Put the engine back to the flat tappet arrangement. If it’s good enough for ever other B6.7 engine (both on and off road), it’s more than sufficient for our pickups. I’ll gladly take the extra decibel of noise and the 150k overhead adjustment. They toyed with something that shouldn’t have been toyed with.

I completely agree flat tappet was perfect

 

[mbarber84]

Next time I pull cam I’m also going to get rid of that scissor cam gear. I saw unusual wear on crank gear from that scissor, and the c&c engines don’t even have the scissor if that says anything.

Also, if you look it up, Cummins has a problem design roller cams that last. Overall, this is a severe case of "if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it" for Cummins and Ram.



Part of me feels like I should’ve stayed away from 2019+, but I also want to get this issue solved. I was the first to hear of this tapping noise when I purchased my first 2019 3500 new back in mid 2019. I lemoned that truck. I always knew it was a cam issue because of frequency, but at the time I thought it was maybe a flaw with a small batch of trucks. Turns out this is a big deal.

At the end of the day, I’m glad I found the issue is in roller design. This will help save others in the future from fixing it with inferior parts.



I wish I could talk to someone with Chrysler to discuss the findings with, but they are too bureaucratic lol.

I wish this too. It would be nice to have a sit down meeting with their team and have an honest and open discussion on the decisions and reasons that led to this design change. I also think there may be bigger longterm issues with these engines due to the CGI block and the weight reduction processes they used. That podcast I watched a few weeks ago was jaw-dropping. When I sold my 2017 and ordered my 2022, I legitimately thought I was buying the same tried and true engine I’ve owned in the previous six trucks, just with some new improvements for power and efficiency. Nothing about these lifter failures, or the regeneration frequency issues, or the odd oil analysis results I’m seeing at 40k miles is reassuring me that I have a longterm reliable powertrain. For the first time in my long history of owning and working on these trucks, I have a legitimate, fact-driven, cause for serious concern. At this point, I’ll be happy if the truck makes it 5 years without issues and I’ll be very ready to trade it in. If they don’t do some serious revisions to the truck as a whole by 2026, this may be my last Cummins powered Ram. And that’s really saying something. You won’t find a bigger advocate for these trucks.

 

[Firebird]

Having recently ditched my 21 dually, should I ever return to diesel, I'm going to look for a 2018 with a manual trans

 

[Ostracize]

Welp, my ears weren’t deceiving me. I have camshaft wear again after 10,000miles. This is a fault in the Cummins roller lifter design, which I’m assuming allows a rotational wobble due to a small key on lifter compared to keyway in block. This causes sharp corners of roller to dig into the lobe, which stops the rolling causing more scoring. Furthermore, rollers show blueing which is evidence of heat damage from said scoring.

Three different lobes pictured.
View attachment 66693View attachment 66694View attachment 66695

@RamCares ... Anything to add here?? This forum is filled with (mostly) very reasonable and rational members that are providing evidence of a larger issue with this design change 19+. Silence is disheartening to put it lightly.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

@RamCares ... Anything to add here?? This forum is filled with (mostly) very reasonable and rational members that are providing evidence of a larger issue with this design change 19+. Silence is disheartening to put it lightly.

They would not have anything to add as they are just customer service reps and have no power to do anything about the issue

 

[CTF2019]

They would not have anything to add as they are just customer service reps and have no power to do anything about the issue

Agreed. They would tell me to go to the "professionals" at my dealer. They’re more like monkeys with wrenches!

 

[Ostracize]

I understand that you think they have no power to do anything or generally just refer to the dealer, they are front line "customer service reps" that do, in fact, have the ability to communicate to the customer(s) as well as up-channel concerns within the cooperation they represent.
Now whether the "do" any of the above is a seperate question, but to say that they can't is incorrect. My request to them is neither unwarranted or unreasonable.

 

[CTF2019]

I understand that you think they have no power to do anything or generally just refer to the dealer, they are front line "customer service reps" that do, in fact, have the ability to communicate to the customer(s) as well as up-channel concerns within the cooperation they represent.
Now whether the "do" any of the above is a seperate question, but to say that they can't is incorrect. My request to them is neither unwarranted or unreasonable.

If you’ve dealt with them or seen what happened with the whole 3 horn honk debacle, you’ll know they are just instructed to act like bots. They are given a script and that’s it.

I’m not going to waste my time explaining this to ramcares that’s for sure.

 

[CTF2019]

Talked to Hamilton today and the flat tappet kit sometimes requires block to be machined, which is a bit disheartening to say the least.

So then I talked to Austin at Wagler and they’re going to be looking into whats going on. The Jessel roller lifters sounds like it will solve the issue without requiring extra machine work. I'll let everyone know which route is best.

 

[flan]

What’s with the block needing machined?

 

[CTF2019]

What’s with the block needing machined?

Some block castings don’t allow the flat lifter head to fit in place and require grinding or machining the excess metal near cam journal. Notice blue area that needs to be removed.

 

[flan]

Pic may be deceiving but it appears higher than the lifter bore. Does the lifter bore need to be ground flush to the blue area?

 

[CTF2019]

Pics are deceiving because cam journal sits lower. There’s too much meat for round head of flat tappet to sit fully into bore. So you have to take a grinder at a minimum and grind a half moon where the blue mark is.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I understand that you think they have no power to do anything or generally just refer to the dealer, they are front line "customer service reps" that do, in fact, have the ability to communicate to the customer(s) as well as up-channel concerns within the cooperation they represent.
Now whether the "do" any of the above is a seperate question, but to say that they can't is incorrect. My request to them is neither unwarranted or unreasonable.

I have tried talking to them before they are reading from a script and cant do anything without your vehicle being at a dealer