Need help on suspension fix

[ClawSS]

@UglyViking , No offense on the shock question. I did the install myself and am 100% confident they are in the right place. I did the front first and made certain to lay out the parts necessary while leaving the rear equipment boxed and out of the way until the task was completed. Then I proceeded to the rear install. Am I sure Thuren gave me the right things or that Fox built them right...well, let's assume they did?!?!?

Thuren's "sales" feedback was to get the rear track bar and/or the King shocks OR go back to a 1500. I am not angry with that response from Chris. I'm sure he gets a bunch of "newbs" claiming that the ride sux in a 2500/3500. Many of them saying "my last truck was great", etc. And yes I was in a 1500 before, but I also had an '02 8.1L 2500HD Chevy, and still run a '93 SRW 3500 Chevy 454ci Chevy. That said, I also do know more on IFS and rear leaf springs in trucks than coils. My cars have coils ('10 Camaro, '09 SRT 300C)...but just not near as big and heavy duty steel in those springs.

This is just kinda different. The sharp bump or jolt of a hard spring/high inflation tire is understandable. The sway of a 9" sidewall of a 37 on 18's...noted. The jitter-not so much. It was best described as "undampened upper-spring vibration". This isn't something I'm used to.

----Ok, with that out of the way---

My latest update is that the rear trackbar is installed. But it thoroughly kicked my ass. I even had to bother Andrew up in Oregon on the tech line to make sure I was doing it right. 4hrs, nothing lined up, egg'd out every hole....damn 160ft/lbs is a lot for this old guy. Glad I had my spare tire removed. Thanks for the tip on using a ratchet strap to pull the exhaust out of the way after taking the tailpipe out of the rubber holder. He said he's done 4 Rams so far on the rear trackbar and all 4 were different in some way. Whew...glad that's over.

Is it better? Yes. I think so, but............Fixed? No.
It was late, but I did a 15mi. test drive on the roads to town and back and went ahead and filled up with fuel (load the suspension with a full tank & 37" Falken on the stock spare wheel is also in my bed up near the cab lying down [over 100lbs]). The jitter may have been less noticeable because I was tired. I have a vacation mentioned earlier of about 700mi round trip (Blue Ridge Mtns into NC then some trips to SC) unloaded...just me+wife+truck & luggage. So I wanted this installed to just see how the ride is in total.

I should have more experience soon....11,000mi on the truck currently.

 

[OLEJOE]

@UglyViking , No offense on the shock question. I did the install myself and am 100% confident they are in the right place. I did the front first and made certain to lay out the parts necessary while leaving the rear equipment boxed and out of the way until the task was completed. Then I proceeded to the rear install. Am I sure Thuren gave me the right things or that Fox built them right...well, let's assume they did?!?!?

Thuren's "sales" feedback was to get the rear track bar and/or the King shocks OR go back to a 1500. I am not angry with that response from Chris. I'm sure he gets a bunch of "newbs" claiming that the ride sux in a 2500/3500. Many of them saying "my last truck was great", etc. And yes I was in a 1500 before, but I also had an '02 8.1L 2500HD Chevy, and still run a '93 SRW 3500 Chevy 454ci Chevy. That said, I also do know more on IFS and rear leaf springs in trucks than coils. My cars have coils ('10 Camaro, '09 SRT 300C)...but just not near as big and heavy duty steel in those springs.

This is just kinda different. The sharp bump or jolt of a hard spring/high inflation tire is understandable. The sway of a 9" sidewall of a 37 on 18's...noted. The jitter-not so much. It was best described as "undampened upper-spring vibration". This isn't something I'm used to.

----Ok, with that out of the way---

My latest update is that the rear trackbar is installed. But it thoroughly kicked my ass. I even had to bother Andrew up in Oregon on the tech line to make sure I was doing it right. 4hrs, nothing lined up, egg'd out every hole....damn 160ft/lbs is a lot for this old guy. Glad I had my spare tire removed. Thanks for the tip on using a ratchet strap to pull the exhaust out of the way after taking the tailpipe out of the rubber holder. He said he's done 4 Rams so far on the rear trackbar and all 4 were different in some way. Whew...glad that's over.

Is it better? Yes. I think so, but............Fixed? No.
It was late, but I did a 15mi. test drive on the roads to town and back and went ahead and filled up with fuel (load the suspension with a full tank & 37" Falken on the stock spare wheel is also in my bed up near the cab lying down [over 100lbs]). The jitter may have been less noticeable because I was tired. I have a vacation mentioned earlier of about 700mi round trip (Blue Ridge Mtns into NC then some trips to SC) unloaded...just me+wife+truck & luggage. So I wanted this installed to just see how the ride is in total.

I should have more experience soon....11,000mi on the truck currently.

Did you have the stock HD springs before you put the Thurens on? Did it have the jitteriness before the change? Mine has the OEM off road package and the suspension is softer at the top of the travel. I noticed that it squats a little more when hooking up my TT than my 18’ did but it could just be the difference between the CTD and the gasser. I like the truck and it is smooth on a rough road but the jitteriness bothers me like a rattle would. It’s aggravating.

 

[ClawSS]

@OLEJOE ... Yes I did have the OEM HD springs for about 8k miles. I also have the off-road package although all that remains is a skidplate and a hill-decent button since I swapped out springs and shocks. I want to say that the Off-Road package isn't about the springs, but just swapping in a set of Bilstein shocks and calling it a day. If we were talking about a Power Wagon, then yes, the springs are different as well as a few other goodies above and beyond what a "normal" 2500 would get for off-road.

I just did not notice the jitter during that period. I was also getting to know the truck. Monitoring every little squeak, rattle, annoyance, or pleasurable experience. It just didn't play during that time in a way I noticed. Again not immediately laying blame on my choice of going with a 2/1 level and softer rear springs, different shocks, etc. I love it and know there is a difference in handling, capability on bumps, and just overall looks.

If the rear trackbar makes it better on wobble and feel more planted, and less annoyance of the jitter....I'll take that as a win. Right now, jury is still out.
I hate being hyper-sensitive to an issue trying to play the Optician game with parts asking myself if "is this better? Or this? One? Or Two?!?"

 

[OLEJOE]

I’ve been trying to find a truck like mine without the ORP and see if it has this problem and if not what the difference is other than the shocks. As I’ve said mine is better with weight in the back seat. Not completely gone but better. And I don’t know if it’s the loading of the frame in that area or if maybe the cab is teetering on the middle cab supports. I can make mine do the shaking by jumping on the back bumper but I can’t figure out what keeps moving. Removing the spare completely has no effect. IDK

 

[flan]

The rear Cab mounts had a extensive thread on here about clunking. That was more noise then anything though. Sounds like not enough dampening from the shocks when I read through the posts.

 

[flan]

I wonder if where the bed rails sit on the frame may bounce and bottom out too.

 

[aaronedmonton]

The

My latest update is that the rear trackbar is installed. But it thoroughly kicked my ass. I even had to bother Andrew up in Oregon on the tech line to make sure I was doing it right. 4hrs, nothing lined up, egg'd out every hole....damn 160ft/lbs is a lot for this old guy. Glad I had my spare tire removed. Thanks for the tip on using a ratchet strap to pull the exhaust out of the way after taking the tailpipe out of the rubber holder. He said he's done 4 Rams so far on the rear trackbar and all 4 were different in some way. Whew...glad that's over.

Had the same experience. Nothing lined up, had to drill out tons of holes, barely got it installed. Didn’t fix my issue of my back end wandering. Yay me.

 

[ClawSS]

Ok...trip complete over to Asheville/Greenville area from Central KY. My verdict "Meh". The rear trackbar did what it was supposed to do and stabilized the swagger, but did nothing for my jitter.
I'm back to either the tires just not absorbing the small stuff and transmitting it through the seat and/or the rear shocks unable to dampen the minutia of vibration. I have said the big hard jolts are fine, understood and actually dampened very well. the rolling undulation you can get on crappy roads produces a well defined and subtle ride without drama. I did notice a tire balance problem at 70 that smoothed out at 80. I could reproduce it any time and make it disappear. Not that bad for Falken 37's.

The rear trackbar did its job for what it was supposed to do, just did not extend itself to tackling my issue that may have been outside of its wheelhouse.

FYI...The roads were recently paved and pretty decent on my complete trip. Minimal construction actually considering the distance travelled. Asheville downtown is hard to park a 2500 Mega unless the time of day is right to catch a street spot (always fold in the mirrors). Asheville and Greenville are mostly parking structures with 6'8" limits, a few 7'0", and one 8'0" on River St. (where I parked). I'm a measured 7'4" at the sharkfin. Some street parking is available in Greenville, but you really have to lap the city during the afternoon to find any openings. We stayed at the Hampton in Biltmore Village. Met a nice couple with a new TRX and chatted it up each night.

 

[OLEJOE]

Ok...trip complete over to Asheville/Greenville area from Central KY. My verdict "Meh". The rear trackbar did what it was supposed to do and stabilized the swagger, but did nothing for my jitter.
I'm back to either the tires just not absorbing the small stuff and transmitting it through the seat and/or the rear shocks unable to dampen the minutia of vibration. I have said the big hard jolts are fine, understood and actually dampened very well. the rolling undulation you can get on crappy roads produces a well defined and subtle ride without drama. I did notice a tire balance problem at 70 that smoothed out at 80. I could reproduce it any time and make it disappear. Not that bad for Falken 37's.

The rear trackbar did its job for what it was supposed to do, just did not extend itself to tackling my issue that may have been outside of its wheelhouse.

FYI...The roads were recently paved and pretty decent on my complete trip. Minimal construction actually considering the distance travelled. Asheville downtown is hard to park a 2500 Mega unless the time of day is right to catch a street spot (always fold in the mirrors). Asheville and Greenville are mostly parking structures with 6'8" limits, a few 7'0", and one 8'0" on River St. (where I parked). I'm a measured 7'4" at the sharkfin. Some street parking is available in Greenville, but you really have to lap the city during the afternoon to find any openings. We stayed at the Hampton in Biltmore Village. Met a nice couple with a new TRX and chatted it up each night.

Wow. I sure was hoping you were on to something. I made up a rubber block for mine to go between the transmission/transfer case mount and the cross member that it sits on and it took most of it out. Does your truck have the 2 piece driveshaft With the swing bearing ?

 

[jetrinka]

Wow. I sure was hoping you were on to something. I made up a rubber block for mine to go between the transmission/transfer case mount and the cross member that it sits on and it took most of it out. Does your truck have the 2 piece driveshaft With the swing bearing ?

If that's the case it sounds like the cause is an excessively soft transmission mount. Time for someone to develop a poly mount

 

[ClawSS]

Wow. I sure was hoping you were on to something. I made up a rubber block for mine to go between the transmission/transfer case mount and the cross member that it sits on and it took most of it out. Does your truck have the 2 piece driveshaft With the swing bearing ?

One piece.

 

[OLEJOE]

The 8 speed uses a different vibration isolator than the 6 speed does. Like I said it helped some but didn’t stop it completely. May be a bad motor mount but I don’t know how to check it.

 

[ClawSS]

Latest update----TL/DR; Still testing the driving characteristics, but I think the driver rear shock was binding up in the mounting causing me to ride on the rubber isolators and transmitting the minor bumps through the chassis.

I had time this weekend to assess my situation and experiences. Taking note of an earlier attempt to fix by cycling the suspension and getting some "relief" to the jitter, I put the truck on the lift and proceeded to disassemble the rear suspension pieces (passenger rear shock first) to just "lick that calf over again" as my father says. Once off the truck and the sway bar link disconnected I removed the spring and reset it back into position. Neither of the rubber isolators were out of position. Everything went in fine. I had full intension of swapping back in the Bilstein rears and had them laid out on the bench. But I forgot which was the rear set and which was the front.
Does anyone know if the longer travel Bilstein shock set is for the front or the rear? My guess is rear due to travel.

Then I moved over to the driver side and proceeded to remove the shock. I relieved the drooping axle pressure (tranny jack under the pumpkin) and took out the lower eyelet bolt, but the shock was not free. It was bound up and twisted, maybe. So I began the horrible work on getting to the pin-top nut. Fox uses an allen fitting on the shaft to hold in place and it is a bear to get to with the fender liner and gas tank. I made a tool, but it still took a while. Once it was well loosened, things freed up and I was able to position, wiggle, and reposition the shock. I think the Thuren rear trackbar was a BIG help here keeping the axle pretty well centered under full droop and inline for a good shock location mounting.

The bound up shock mounting sent me down the path thinking that something must have been too tight and too skewed during the initial install making the shock ride hard on both the pintop bushings & the lower eyelet.

I put in the bolts to the shocks back in loosely shaking and wiggling the shock making sure it was straight, reattached the swaybar loosely as well and lowered the truck to the ground putting all the weight on the axle. I then proceeded to retorque everything in hopes that the shock would seat in alignment and be happy in its new home.

Is it better???....initial test drive says yes, but I need more miles to tell. Still a 2500 HD truck, but with soft-ride rears. The jitter is there, but I think it only there after the initial big jolt of a real bump in the road and not on every seam or pebble. Tune in for what I hope is a final update soon.

 

[UglyViking]

I know Thuren is very clear about how tight to tighten the pintop shocks, but I'd be pretty surprised if that did anything to set the shock out of alignment. I'd reach out to Thuren, it's possible that your shock needs QA-ing it never got.

For what it's worth, I'm in a very similar truck to you (CCSB 2500, cummins, 2.75/1" Thuren coils, King 3.0/2.5" shocks, 37/17s) and it rides far better than my 1500 did, but going over certain bumps I do notice a bit of jitter that wasn't there with my GM 1500. I also noticed this with my Jeep on 35s, so I'm assuming this is purely a 5 link rear thing, it's just always going to have a bit more movement than leafs will.

 

[G Mcpherson]

Rear is 24-464 Bilstein. 24-776 Front

 

[OLEJOE]

This is the front shock.

 

[OLEJOE]

And this is the sticker on the rear one.

 

[ClawSS]

I know Thuren is very clear about how tight to tighten the pintop shocks, but I'd be pretty surprised if that did anything to set the shock out of alignment. I'd reach out to Thuren, it's possible that your shock needs QA-ing it never got.

For what it's worth, I'm in a very similar truck to you (CCSB 2500, cummins, 2.75/1" Thuren coils, King 3.0/2.5" shocks, 37/17s) and it rides far better than my 1500 did, but going over certain bumps I do notice a bit of jitter that wasn't there with my GM 1500. I also noticed this with my Jeep on 35s, so I'm assuming this is purely a 5 link rear thing, it's just always going to have a bit more movement than leafs will.

Totally with you on this. I feel that I somewhat know what to expect. I was actually feeling fatigued during my 1hr one-way commutes. The recent test drives were not of that duration, but during a few errand trips I took over the weekend, I was no longer noticing or my attention being drawn straight to the suspension or ride. I have informed Andrew Patrick (Thuren tech) and made him aware of the situation. I'm game for a shock swap if it comes to that, but I have minimal knowledge where I am on the "normal" scale of NVH. It was just unacceptable where it is/was.

 

[ClawSS]

And this is the sticker on the rear one.

I have the F4-BE5-M304-W2. But....
I have the F4-BE5-M305-W2. So by process of elimination, I am gonna go with the 305's in back. Thanks.

 

[OLEJOE]

I’m with you on the not acceptable. I have tried everything I know to do to stop the jitteriness it has short of changing shocks and springs. Still looking.