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Dealership fuel filter replacement quote

WRMcAninch said:
I guess I must be missing something or I'm just an idiot.
I've searched and searched, what I have found is that OEM filters, filter down to 3 or 4 microns "absolute", this is depending on where you read. FASS advertises that their filter (the one I use) filters down to 2 microns "absolute". With the information I found, it's hard to believe the FASS system is a step backwards. I have no reason to believe all of FASS's hype in their marketing, and there is a lot of it. It seems to me that (what I found searching anyway) the FASS system is at least as good as OEM.
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Then why go to the trouble and expense of changing from the OEM setup? Doesn’t make sense to me, but it’s your truck and your money.
 
Ritchie_Rich said:
Then why go to the trouble and expense of changing from the OEM setup? Doesn’t make sense to me, but it’s your truck and your money.
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I completely understand the desire to change the absolute asinine design of an upside down cartridge filter in the rear.

It’s just not worth doing until I can track down a conversion kit that will accept a spin on with the correct filtration and water separation. I’ll just be a sore ass until then.
 
WRMcAninch said:
I guess I must be missing something or I'm just an idiot.
I've searched and searched, what I have found is that OEM filters, filter down to 3 or 4 microns "absolute", this is depending on where you read. FASS advertises that their filter (the one I use) filters down to 2 microns "absolute". With the information I found, it's hard to believe the FASS system is a step backwards. I have no reason to believe all of FASS's hype in their marketing, and there is a lot of it. It seems to me that (what I found searching anyway) the FASS system is at least as good as OEM.
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What it boils down to is what test(s) are used to determine that micron efficiency and thereby the rating we’re using to compare.

And that’s where the difference lies. You’re not comparing apples to apples when you’re comparing the OEM filter system with that of FASS when it comes to the types of filters they use, or the ratings by which they are assessed. The OEM system is more stringently tested and rated.
 
It’s no different than someone selling the Cat 1R-075 as a 2µ absolute filter, it was with old and out dated specs. Cat now calls it a 4µ filter and has since 2004… yet people selling it and their fuel filtration systems don’t state that.

There simply isn’t beating the OEM setup, and with everything FASS has published it’s a step backwards.. maybe two with that water absorbing filter.
 
AH64ID said:
It’s no different than someone selling the Cat 1R-075 as a 2µ absolute filter, it was with old and out dated specs. Cat now calls it a 4µ filter and has since 2004… yet people selling it and their fuel filtration systems don’t state that.

There simply isn’t beating the OEM setup, and with everything FASS has published it’s a step backwards.. maybe two with that water absorbing filter.
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Water absorbing filters are great.

On my bulk tanks.
 
Just goes to show most people that buy these things don’t really think it through.

Fill up in Barstow CA and start heading east toward Flagstaff through the Mojave. Half way there, your truck shuts down because your water absorbing filter is full because you got a bad tank back in Barstow. No spare filters on board, it’s 105°F out there. Can’t even pull the filter off and dump the water out because it’s trapped inside the filter media.

Meanwhile, if you had a stock truck, you would’ve received a warning about water in the fuel. Couldn’ve stopped, drained both filter housings down, re-primed the system, and rolled onward.

It’s almost like the engineers knew what they were building…
 
WRMcAninch said:
I guess I must be missing something or I'm just an idiot.
I've searched and searched, what I have found is that OEM filters, filter down to 3 or 4 microns "absolute", this is depending on where you read. FASS advertises that their filter (the one I use) filters down to 2 microns "absolute". With the information I found, it's hard to believe the FASS system is a step backwards. I have no reason to believe all of FASS's hype in their marketing, and there is a lot of it. It seems to me that (what I found searching anyway) the FASS system is at least as good as OEM.
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There's the rub. Advertised specs are out dated. Period.

I guess these guys can explain it to you until they're blue in the face, but they apparently can't make you understand it.

FASS IS USING OUTDATED SPECS AND IS LYING ABOUT THEIR FILTRATION.

FASS is not as good as OEM. Plain and simple.
 
Wow! This dialogue is exactly why I joined this forum. However, I’m curious, is there a similar discussion somewhere about oil bypass systems? I have a new 6.7 and was duly (pun intended) impressed with the videos that Dave’s in Utah produces showing the guy that got over 900k after installing an Insane filter not long after he bought it. I asked my mechanic to order me one 3 mos ago and he still hasn’t received it. Either I need a new mechanic, he’s protecting me from my own ignorance, or Insane Diesel has a supply problem. Not completely appropriate for this thread but . . . Glad to move on if better posted somewhere else. I’m also a senior citizen concerned about ‘loving up’ my beauty for reliability reasons. She’s already got plenty of HP/torque.
 
LuckyK said:
Wow! This dialogue is exactly why I joined this forum. However, I’m curious, is there a similar discussion somewhere about oil bypass systems? I have a new 6.7 and was duly (pun intended) impressed with the videos that Dave’s in Utah produces showing the guy that got over 900k after installing an Insane filter not long after he bought it. I asked my mechanic to order me one 3 mos ago and he still hasn’t received it. Either I need a new mechanic, he’s protecting me from my own ignorance, or Insane Diesel has a supply problem. Not completely appropriate for this thread but . . . Glad to move on if better posted somewhere else. I’m also a senior citizen concerned about ‘loving up’ my beauty for reliability reasons. She’s already got plenty of HP/torque.
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The oil system on the 6.7’s is more than adequately filtered.

Bypass kits enable you to extend oil drain intervals when coupled with oil analysis, but there are a dozen other things that are gonna kill your truck before oil filtration. It’s a poor return on investment at best. Run a quality OEM style filter such as Donaldson DBL 7349 and save your coin.

I’d shy away from the Dave’s auto advertising partnerships, personally. They like selling solutions to problems that don’t exist.
 
LuckyK said:
Wow! This dialogue is exactly why I joined this forum. However, I’m curious, is there a similar discussion somewhere about oil bypass systems? I have a new 6.7 and was duly (pun intended) impressed with the videos that Dave’s in Utah produces showing the guy that got over 900k after installing an Insane filter not long after he bought it. I asked my mechanic to order me one 3 mos ago and he still hasn’t received it. Either I need a new mechanic, he’s protecting me from my own ignorance, or Insane Diesel has a supply problem. Not completely appropriate for this thread but . . . Glad to move on if better posted somewhere else. I’m also a senior citizen concerned about ‘loving up’ my beauty for reliability reasons. She’s already got plenty of HP/torque.
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Quick search yielded a few brief discussions on bypass oil filtration systems, but I didn’t see any lengthy ones.
Oil Bypass Thread (click here)

Oil bypass systems do a great job of reducing the contamination of the engine oil, however they are rather expensive. The way I see it, if you plan to invest in the added filtration, you should be willing to extend the oil drain intervals as a means of recouping some of the initial investment spent on the system. If you plan to install one, and then continue draining the engine oil at, or before, the manufacturer suggest maximum 15k mile drain intervals, then the system isn’t worth the investment. Use quality engine oil (preferably a 100% synthetic PAO / Ester base oil that has better flow in colder weather and much higher tolerance / resilience to fuel dilution, soot, and high heat. Pair it with a high quality engine oil filter like the Donaldson DBL7349 (best you can buy for a pre-2025 6.7) and change the oil regularly based on the duty cycles your truck sees routinely.

Oil analysis is your friend. Low cost and helps to guide you on “when” to change your oil for maximum oil life and engine protection.
 
Trash Panda said:
The oil system on the 6.7’s is more than adequately filtered.

Bypass kits enable you to extend oil drain intervals when coupled with oil analysis, but there are a dozen other things that are gonna kill your truck before oil filtration. It’s a poor return on investment at best. Run a quality OEM style filter such as Donaldson DBL 7349 and save your coin.

I’d shy away from the Dave’s auto advertising partnerships, personally. They like selling solutions to problems that don’t exist.
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Dave seems to be very knowledgeable and genuine. But, he’s way off base with some of the things he pushes.

3,000 mile engine oil changes on a modern diesel engine like these 6.7’s is ludicrous. Even with mediocre engine oil, these engines aren’t contaminating the oil that badly in 3k miles. Not even at 5k in most cases. These engines, when everything is operating correctly and the truck is seeing good drive intervals, are not that hard on engine oil.
 
LuckyK said:
Wow! This dialogue is exactly why I joined this forum. However, I’m curious, is there a similar discussion somewhere about oil bypass systems? I have a new 6.7 and was duly (pun intended) impressed with the videos that Dave’s in Utah produces showing the guy that got over 900k after installing an Insane filter not long after he bought it. I asked my mechanic to order me one 3 mos ago and he still hasn’t received it. Either I need a new mechanic, he’s protecting me from my own ignorance, or Insane Diesel has a supply problem. Not completely appropriate for this thread but . . . Glad to move on if better posted somewhere else. I’m also a senior citizen concerned about ‘loving up’ my beauty for reliability reasons. She’s already got plenty of HP/torque.
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Already some good answers but I’ll ad this. I’ve used bypass filters in multiple applications but no longer do.

Modern machining and modern full flow filtration is so much better than it was, so wear is greatly reduced and there are full flow filters such as the DBL7349 for the pre-25 Cummins at are absolute at 15 µ and 7µ at 59.97%.

One of the biggest benefits to bypass filters has been soot removal, but modern oils suspended the soot since EGR is standard. This makes the soot particles stay sub-micron in size so most the soot stays in the oil, even with a 2µ absolute bypass filter, reducing the effectiveness of the bypass.

With low availability of aftermarket filters for you 2025 I’d run for now and hope Donaldson makes a syntec media cross. If they don’t I would consider an Amsoil EaBP090 single remote bypass setup since OEM filtration isn’t as good as the Donaldson media, but it’s still decent.
 
mbarber84 said:
Dave seems to be very knowledgeable and genuine. But, he’s way off base with some of the things he pushes.

3,000 mile engine oil changes on a modern diesel engine like these 6.7’s is ludicrous. Even with mediocre engine oil, these engines aren’t contaminating the oil that badly in 3k miles. Not even at 5k in most cases. These engines, when everything is operating correctly and the truck is seeing good drive intervals, are not that hard on engine oil.
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Yeah, a 3k interval suggestion is absolutely looney.
 
WRMcAninch said:
...the FASS system is at least as good as OEM.
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A FASS/Airdog made sense on a 2006 duramax that didn't have a factory lift pump and filters were obscure, although very effective. Location and common filter sizing made filter changes/drains fast, clean, and easy.

A 2013+ Ram has very effective fuel filtration and a lift pump. If you have a performance application that exceeds the output of a OEM lift pump, I can see adding an aftermarket solution. Sure, a typical spin on (Donaldson p553207) is a great filter and easier to change than the canister styles on our trucks, but I'm not going to pay BMP hundreds of dollars and have to compromise/re-engineer very important WIF functionality to get there.

There's a reason that FASS now produces other BS performancy truck bro items. EGR filters, radius arms, t shirts, flat brim hats, etc. The market for their lift pumps has largely disappeared. That Brad guy got punched in the face too many times. That 40 micro pre-filter they now sell is a waste of a good filtration opportunity. Their sumps prioritize speed of installation (flat rate diesel performance shops) over technical merit.

If I had a modern Ford I'd be tempted to use some type of spin-on filter conversion rather than that filter-in-a-box diesel shower abomination that they have. I'm still of the school that if your truck takes you far from home, you should carry a set of spare filters with you and be prepared to change them in case of a bad tank of fuel. That Ford nonsense kinda precludes any of that. On my Ram I've put longer hoses on both drains. I can quickly purge both filters with the engine running if needed (without getting fuel up my arm or hot exhaust pipe), and do a few times per oil change interval. Granted, a 50 gallon tank upgrade means I get to be picky about fuel buying even on 11 mpg camper trips.
 
mbarber84 said:
Dave seems to be very knowledgeable and genuine. But, he’s way off base with some of the things he pushes.

3,000 mile engine oil changes on a modern diesel engine like these 6.7’s is ludicrous. Even with mediocre engine oil, these engines aren’t contaminating the oil that badly in 3k miles. Not even at 5k in most cases. These engines, when everything is operating correctly and the truck is seeing good drive intervals, are not that hard on engine oil.
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Dave is a salesman and if he has to line his pockets with Banks cool aid money he will… with his sheepish smile.
 
The correct way to measure how good a filter is through the Filter's Beta Rating and the fluid contamination level according to ISO 4406 which is expressed as a 3 digit number such as 18/15/12. Beta rating is essentially how efficient the filter is as removing contaminants of a certain size. There is no such thing as absolute filtration and you would need to have a beta rating of ∞. Example for bulk filter is Donaldson P568666 which is 4 micron @beta 2000 and targets a cleanliness level of 14/13/11. What this means the filter captures 99.95% of particles 4 micron and larger (Filter beta Rating) and for a single pass through the filter you can expect between 8,000 and 16,000 particles 4 Micron or larger, between 4,000 and 8,000 particles 6 micron or larger and between 1,000-2,000 14 micron or larger in 100ml of fluid. Most filter companies do not publish this information to the consumer but it is available in the engineering documents.
 
jkempken said:
The correct way to measure how good a filter is through the Filter's Beta Rating and the fluid contamination level according to ISO 4406 which is expressed as a 3 digit number such as 18/15/12. Beta rating is essentially how efficient the filter is as removing contaminants of a certain size. There is no such thing as absolute filtration and you would need to have a beta rating of ∞. Example for bulk filter is Donaldson P568666 which is 4 micron @beta 2000 and targets a cleanliness level of 14/13/11. What this means the filter captures 99.95% of particles 4 micron and larger (Filter beta Rating) and for a single pass through the filter you can expect between 8,000 and 16,000 particles 4 Micron or larger, between 4,000 and 8,000 particles 6 micron or larger and between 1,000-2,000 14 micron or larger in 100ml of fluid. Most filter companies do not publish this information to the consumer but it is available in the engineering documents.
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In terms of filtration absolute means 98.7% efficient, or a Beta ratio of 75.
 
jkempken said:
The correct way to measure how good a filter is through the Filter's Beta Rating and the fluid contamination level according to ISO 4406 which is expressed as a 3 digit number such as 18/15/12. Beta rating is essentially how efficient the filter is as removing contaminants of a certain size. There is no such thing as absolute filtration and you would need to have a beta rating of ∞. Example for bulk filter is Donaldson P568666 which is 4 micron @beta 2000 and targets a cleanliness level of 14/13/11. What this means the filter captures 99.95% of particles 4 micron and larger (Filter beta Rating) and for a single pass through the filter you can expect between 8,000 and 16,000 particles 4 Micron or larger, between 4,000 and 8,000 particles 6 micron or larger and between 1,000-2,000 14 micron or larger in 100ml of fluid. Most filter companies do not publish this information to the consumer but it is available in the engineering documents.
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It is very very difficult (sometimes impossible) to obtain the engineering level specs from most of these manufacturers.

Cat will not release any data.

You have to spend a significant amount of time on the phone and get lucky enough to connect with the right employees to make any real progress. I’ve spent countless hours on the phone with most of the major suppliers and often come up empty handed.
 
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