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[Bob.jones]

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[tyler2you]

While I agree that there are advantages to the 5th wheel platform, I think you're overthinking it a bit.

You can achieve a safe/comfortable level of stability and control with a bumper pull trailer. It may take a little more effort/equipment, but very it's still very doable and safe.

As far as shorter overall length, much of that comes from the section of the trailer that is hanging over the back of the truck. It's not really an apples to apples comparison to a bumper pull in terms of useable living space.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense to prep a truck with limited payload for a 5th wheel.

 

[Greenhills]

Unpopular Opinion: People who tow need to stop buying 2500's.

 

[Darmichar]

While I agree that there are advantages to the 5th wheel platform, I think you're overthinking it a bit.

You can achieve a safe/comfortable level of stability and control with a bumper pull trailer. It may take a little more effort/equipment, but very it's still very doable and safe.

As far as shorter overall length, much of that comes from the section of the trailer that is hanging over the back of the truck. It's not really an apples to apples comparison to a bumper pull in terms of useable living space.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense to prep a truck with limited payload for a 5th wheel.

Couldn't agree more. I've been looking at toy haulers lately and have come to the conclusion that it is either going to be a bumper pull or a gooseneck 'horse trailer' garage/living quarters type trailer.
For me and the way I would use it, 5th wheel trailers are:
1. Way too high profile. They're just too tall for my liking. I'd like to maximize fuel economy as much a possible. I learned the hard way buying a pontoon boat as my first boat that we trailered from lake to lake, the lower the better.
2. Require me to have a several hundred pound device in the bed that I have to deal with if I want to use my truck as a truck and haul something in the bed.

I like the convenience of bumper pulls/goosenecks for being able to hook up to them and go without too much work or extra weight involved.

 

[I Love Grits]

If you’ve searched you’re familiar with the Class 2 rating argument, right?

I think the “#sendit” camp as you put it is mostly made up of people who are more willing to do a bit of critical thinking and accept there’s more going on.

Why doesn’t RAM offer a prep package in the 1500 lineup when, depending on trim levels, the 1500/2500 can have very similar payload ratings?

 

[I Love Grits]

Unpopular Opinion: People who tow need to stop buying 2500's.

 

[tyler2you]

Unless you need to tow a small apartment around with you and you have a DRW truck to do it with, I think a bumper pull with a properly set-up weight distribution/sway control hitch will suit you well.

 

[tyler2you]

Here's the way the whole class 2 vs. class 3 thing has been explained to me:

By law, a class 2 truck (3/4 ton) has a max GVWR of 10,000 lbs. despite the fact that the components/system may be able to safely carry considerably more weight. A class 3 truck (1 ton) has a max GVWR of 14,000 lbs. The class system was apparently put in place decades ago to classify vehicles for emissions as well as state vehicle registration.

So, you might have a 2500 where the combined axle rating would allow it to carry 11,500 lbs., however the class 2 classification limits it to 10,000 lbs. Given this discrepancy, many folks will argue that the 3/4 ton trucks are artificially limited in payload capacity to stay under the class limits.

I'm not going to argue the point either way as this usually devolves into a huge argument with many supporters on each side of the argument.

 

[I Love Grits]

Grits, I will have to do some more searching on "class 2 rating". I think it may have something to do with vehicle weight rating and taxes/registration fees etc etc but will do some homework on what class ratings are and what they really mean.

I consider myself a critical thinker and have wondered about the significantly higher payload rating on a 3500 with the same engine (standard output) and transmission as my 2500. To my knowledge, the only difference is my coil springs compared to their leaf springs. To be fair, coil and leaf are two very different animals... But wouldn't adding airbags in the bump stop location on my truck (in addition to the coil springs already there) provide the same amount of support as leaf springs? Or even (and here's a dangerous thought) possibly provide MORE support than the leaf springs on a 3500 that's equipped with the standard output? I can't speak to the 3500 with the HO and a different transmission (and certainly not comparing it to the DRW) but unless there were differences in tires and axles and brakes on the 3500 with the standard output... Seems like the rear suspension is the only difference between the two trucks. That and a sticker with almost 1000lbs higher payload. I just haven't done the due diligence of finding a 3500 SO and putting eyes on it to compare.

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@tyler2you explains it above. There are literal hundreds of threads on the interwebs arguing this kind of stuff.

Main thing is, do what you feel is best for you and just accept that others see it differently. It’s a very polarizing topic.

Personally, I subscribe to the go by axle rating camp.

 

[MEGA HO]

... and a sticker with almost 1000lbs higher payload. ...

Not 1000lbs higher, try about twice higher for 3500.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Im part of the send it crew as they only go by axle weights here and that puts the GVWR at 12040

 

[MEGA HO]

Twice as high even for a standard output 3500? I only ask confirmation as I see your name has "HO 3500" in it

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All things equal, SO will have a higher payload comparing to HO because AISIN transmission is heavier. Rear axle might be slightly heavier too but don't know by how much. My HO Limited has 3840 lbs or something like that. Many 3500 SRW are North of 4000 lbs.
HO will have higher tow rating but not the payload.

 

[Cooker69]

I know I'm a newbie on here and yes I have been search functioning the crap out of this forum. I understand that there are two different camps when it comes to payload and towing with the 2500 diesel: camp number 1 says I'll kill us all and camp number 2 says add aftermarket air bags and #sendit. I'm all about happy mediums so I've yet to choose which of those hills to die on...

I came from a 2015 Charger SRT that was packed with technology and comfort. The birth of my first daughter drove me to shift the mindset to something that was just as comfortable but robust and safe enough to transport my family. My 21 2500 Limited 6.7 with a ranch hand legend bumper absolutely achieves that 110%. Primary mission accomplished.


I'm researching what it would look like to buy our first camper. It's my understanding that a 5th wheel has many benefits over a travel trailer (colloquially referred to as a TT, right?) such as being a more stable towing setup, better turning radius, and a shorter effective overall length when compared to an equivalently sized TT.

In staying aligned to the primary mission of safety for my family, I have been trying to determine a 5th wheel camper and hitch setup that would be within my doorjamb sticker 2063lbs payload capacity and... I don't think it's actually possible.

A b&w or pullrite hitch is going to be an average 300lbs. I'm a 6' 3" fat kid, plus wife and baby and suitcases/baby gear... Realistically I'm looking at a conservative number of 1000lbs. Which would leave me with only 1063lbs... The smallest 5th wheel camper at my local camping world is a Jayco eagle HT 29.5 BHDS. Jayco website says dry hitch weight is 1745lbs... That means with zero fluid in any tanks and zero things packed in this camper the "pin weight" (weight placed upon the 300lbs hitch in my bed, right?) would put my payload a solid 700lbs over what my door sticker says.

So... Even if I leave my wife and child at home, pack nothing in my truck, take the ranch hand bumper off, become less fat... Actually no, I'll go full crazy person on this thought train:

If there were a way to remote control my truck with nobody and nothing in it, and I tried to tow the smallest 5th wheel camper I can locally find (with absolutely nothing inside of it)... I would be about 20lbs away from the door sticker maximum payload.

I realize that I've got the needle turned as far in the conservative direction as possible for this hypothetical scenario, but the conclusion seems to be that it is not possible to tow a 5th wheel camper (even a "HT" model designed for half ton trucks) with my truck without exceeding the maximum advertised payload.

I can't for the life of me understand why Ram would go through the trouble of putting a 5th wheel prep package on a truck that isn't able to actually use it. I may be way off base and missing something here, and any feedback would be graciously received. I appreciate everyone's time and will continue reading and learning from all of you.

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Check out a Reese "Goosebox" (not gooseneck) it removes the need for that 300 pound hitch in your bed. We have a similar hitch, and our bed requires only a "ball" in the center.

 

[Darmichar]

Check out a Reese "Goosebox" (not gooseneck) it removes the need for that 300 pound hitch in your bed. We have a similar hitch, and our bed requires only a "ball" in the center.

I've seen those and I'm holding out on that as a last resort.

 

[MEGA HO]

Problem solved.

 

[Jnrcarson]

I’m coming from a 2000 quad cab longbed 2500 ctd into my new 2500 crew cab shortbed ctd. My old truck never had any problem with my 5th wheel which is approx 8000 gvwr. I had steel toolbox fully loaded in the bed, along with the Curt hitch. Never felt like it was overloaded. Have yet to hook up to the 5er with the new truck but don’t expect any problems. Thoughts???

 

[MEGA HO]

I’m coming from a 2000 quad cab longbed 2500 ctd into my new 2500 crew cab shortbed ctd. My old truck never had any problem with my 5th wheel which is approx 8000 gvwr. I had steel toolbox fully loaded in the bed, along with the Curt hitch. Never felt like it was overloaded. Have yet to hook up to the 5er with the new truck but don’t expect any problems. Thoughts???

Older 2500s had rear leaf springs, no?

 

[Jnrcarson]

I think you’re right. Can’t remember. I plan on adding airlift bags and compressor to avoid the sag seeing how i leveled my truck

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Older 2500s had rear leaf springs, no?

That is irrelevant my 19 with coils is way better than my 2005 with leaf springs and supper spring helpers was for handling a load

 

[Brutal_HO]

Wow, you're good! Learned how to Google a bit and have been playing around on the Ram towing guide website. Sure enough, the 3500 SO has a higher payload but lower towing capacity than the 3500 HO.

Huh... So per the Ram website a 3500 Limited SO SRW has a max payload of 3750. And the only physical/mechanical difference between that and my truck is leaf springs vice coil springs. Interesting...

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That doesn't mean the springs have the same ratings. Yes, railcars use coils, but a truck isn't a railcar.

Coil sprung trucks' axle also moves laterally where a leaf spring doesn't (or isn't supposed to and therefore significantly less by design). The coil spring perch is also inboard as compared to the leaf.

Comparing 3/4T trucks with different tech 15 years apart isn't relevant. The differences are more substantial. A modern leaf sprung 1-ton is also more capable and better handling than an 05 1-ton.

Just remember that people like to justify their decisions, no matter the cost to others.

All things equal, SO will have a higher payload comparing to HO because AISIN transmission is heavier. Rear axle might be slightly heavier too but don't know by how much. My HO Limited has 3840 lbs or something like that. Many 3500 SRW are North of 4000 lbs.
HO will have higher tow rating but not the payload.

The transfer case on the HO is also bigger/heavier.

My Limited HO (no sunroof) payload is 3707. I'm guessing the VSIM and backup alarm I don't have would drop that about 2lbs.