2500 vs 3500 ride

[Monoman]

Hi all. Newbie first time poster. Trying to decide on a tow vehicle for a 8,000K RV trailer. I have always preferred to stay well within limits for safety as well as room for growth, unplanned needs, etc. The 2500 w/ diesel has been my focus and I know it will handle our expected load just fine but the jump to 3500 seems like a pretty good deal. Is there a significant difference in ride or handling when used as a daily driver?

Specifically I was looking at 2500 Limited w/ diesel and all the toys. Now I'm looking at a 3500 Laramie w/ HO diesel and all the toys and it comes in the same price or a few bucks less. I suspect the 3500 rides a bit stiffer but that's about it. It looks like a Laramie loaded up can have all of the same toys as the Limited. What am I missing?

Thank you

 

[gimmie11s]

If you never, ever 100% dont plan to upgrade your RV, buy the 2500 and dont lose any sleep.

If you think, even 1% chance, you may upgrade to a larger unit, buy the 3500 with the air assisted rear suspension and you'll be glad you did.

FWIW, i owned a coil-sprung diesel 2500, and now own a air assisted 3500 dually and ABSOLUTELY love the new truck. 0 regrets and the HO/Aisin combo is really fantastic.

 

[el_barto]

8000K…8,000lbs? 8,000,000lbs? 8,000kg?

If 8000lb, a 2500 will be more than fine…. Unless you end up buying a larger heavier one.

 

[DougB]

8000K? That’s a hot RV

My trailer is gross 9950lb and about 8.5k lbs loaded. I went with the 2500 mega cab Cummins, no air ride, over a 3500 with air ride since the 2500 will handle it fine and the 95% daily driving will be a plush ride on the coil springs vs the 3500 on leaf springs even with air.

I had dreams of going to a 5er or hauling a 14k gooseneck but those are so likely not gonna happen so I didn’t go 3500. Even still, a 2500 with aftermarket airbags will handle a 14k gooseneck and not be/feel unsafe. Just did a trip TX to CO in a friend’s 2018 2500 CC with 2 Jeeps on a 14k GN and all was fine.

I test drove a 3500 with air and it wasn’t a bad ride at all. Stiff but well dampened. The 2500 tho for daily driving was just much more comfortable. I’m coming from a 2006 2500 with leaf springs so anything 16 years newer is going to feel better.

I didn’t go air ride on the 2500 as I never wanted to worry about an air spring blowing out.

 

[McHenry2500]

I'd have no concern with hooking a 8,000lb trailer to my 2500. Plus it rides decent as my daily and gets fair mileage without a trailer. Having a 3500 is great when you get over the 10,000lb or go to a longer triple axle camper or gooseneck.

This was my 26' gooseneck on my 2500 going from Texas to Colorado just a few months ago. Truck pulled it fine and had no issues.

 

[BikePilot]

I would dig into the weight of the trailer. 8k lbs is really light. Rv mfg claimed weights are usually way low and wouldn't include water or your stuff.

I would also avoid a diesel 2500 as the payload rating is extremely low and even with a fairly light trailer you may run out of payload depending on how much stuff and people you want to haul.

 

[DougB]

I would dig into the weight of the trailer. 8k lbs is really light. Rv mfg claimed weights are usually way low and wouldn't include water or your stuff.

I would also avoid a diesel 2500 as the payload rating is extremely low and even with a fairly light trailer you may run out of payload depending on how much stuff and people you want to haul.

Uh-oh.

A 2500 diesel with an 8k lb trailer will be FINE, in crew or mega cab.

 

[MikeXM]

Hi all. Newbie first time poster. Trying to decide on a tow vehicle for a 8,000K RV trailer. I have always preferred to stay well within limits for safety as well as room for growth, unplanned needs, etc. The 2500 w/ diesel has been my focus and I know it will handle our expected load just fine but the jump to 3500 seems like a pretty good deal. Is there a significant difference in ride or handling when used as a daily driver?

Specifically I was looking at 2500 Limited w/ diesel and all the toys. Now I'm looking at a 3500 Laramie w/ HO diesel and all the toys and it comes in the same price or a few bucks less. I suspect the 3500 rides a bit stiffer but that's about it. It looks like a Laramie loaded up can have all of the same toys as the Limited. What am I missing?

Thank you

At that weight, skip the 3500.
Go with this one instead:

 

[snayte]

The diesel with the 2500 really takes a hit in the payload department. Seems like a good rule of thumb is get the 3500 if you are set on the diesel, if you want a 2500 get the gasser.

That said I came from a 4th gen 1500 with 4 corner air and the 2500 is a much harsher ride than that was. But that could be because I have 2900 Lbs of payload and am using about 300 - 500 when not towing. I cannot imaging the 3500 being that much worse.

 

[McHenry2500]

I would dig into the weight of the trailer. 8k lbs is really light. Rv mfg claimed weights are usually way low and wouldn't include water or your stuff.

I would also avoid a diesel 2500 as the payload rating is extremely low and even with a fairly light trailer you may run out of payload depending on how much stuff and people you want to haul.

I don't understand why so many people say this about the 2500 CTD trucks? I've towed alot of heavy stuff with my 2500 and never felt unsafe or worried about performance.

 

[BikePilot]

Uh-oh.

A 2500 diesel with an 8k lb trailer will be FINE, in crew or mega cab.

Fine from a practical standpoint maybe, but probably not legal. A limited 2500 crew with the diesel will have about a 1750lbs payload (https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?...-sticker-from-drivers-door-jamb.218/post-2162). You probably want 15% of trailer weight on the hitch (rough guess, specifics of the trailer will matter a lot of course) , which leaves 550lbs for humans, dogs, gear, tools, etc. Really easy to blow through that ceiling even with an 8k lbs trailer. If you end up with 20% of trailer weigh on the hitch the driver had better be really skinny and have no friends

 

[gimmie11s]

I don't understand why so many people say this about the 2500 CTD trucks? I've towed alot of heavy stuff with my 2500 and never felt unsafe or worried about performance.

They can pull the weight just fine, and can stop easily. Plenty of power and brakes.

The issue is handling (in my experience)--the coil springs are too soft loaded heavy IMO. Also, legally speaking, they are right.

 

[McHenry2500]

They can pull the weight just fine, and can stop easily. Plenty of power and brakes.

The issue is handling (in my experience)--the coil springs are too soft loaded heavy IMO. Also, legally speaking, they are right.

In my experience this issue is really more noticeable with something connected via a 5th wheel hitch, and even more noticeably so on the short bed trucks. My long bed pulling a gooseneck feels planted.

As far as the legal side, I have no idea. In Texas those limitations generally only matter to commercial drivers. I don't know that I've ever even looked what my truck is rated for "legally".

 

[DougB]

This is as old of a discussion as Ford v. Chevy. And just as debated.

After much reading in my research to also choose between a 2500 or 3500, I think this 2500 payload number issue comes down to a few objective legal points but mostly subjective opinions. And even subjective opinions and speculation about those objective legal points given lack of legal precedents about liability of being overloaded. IMO, it boils down to personal risk tolerance and what's going to make you feel best behind the wheel.

Those who believe a 3500 is needed to tow an 8k lb trailer are welcome to go that route. (I guess if you're going to have 20% tongue weight you'll need it. lol) But there are plenty of examples of 2500s being over payload but well within GVWR, GCWR, and GAWRs that are all 100% legal since payload is not a legally binding number. It's a number generated by an arbitrary starting point minus the vehicle curb weight.

Ram really needs to get with the program, as Ford and Chevy have, and up the GVWR on their 3/4 ton truck lineup to get more realistic and functional payload number to what the 2500 is genuinely able to handle. These pathetic payload numbers on the Ram 2500 Cummins is just that, pathetic. Follow Ford and Chevy and use a higher standard GVWR but offer a 9900 and 10,000 option and let the buyer choose if they need to save $$$ on registration for whatever reasons. I suspect/hope Ram will do this once they move the HDs to the full 5th Gen body.

 

[gimmie11s]

In my experience this issue is really more noticeable with something connected via a 5th wheel hitch, and even more noticeably so on the short bed trucks. My long bed pulling a gooseneck feels planted.

As far as the legal side, I have no idea. In Texas those limitations generally only matter to commercial drivers. I don't know that I've ever even looked what my truck is rated for "legally".

Totally agree! My 2016 2500 cummins truck was a short bed and we tow a 14k lbs 5er. That trailer is too much IMO for that truck.

This is as old of a discussion as Ford v. Chevy. And just as debated.

After much reading in my research to also choose between a 2500 or 3500, I think this 2500 payload number issue comes down to a few objective legal points but mostly subjective opinions. And even subjective opinions and speculation about those objective legal points given lack of legal precedents about liability of being overloaded. IMO, it boils down to personal risk tolerance and what's going to make you feel best behind the wheel.

Those who believe a 3500 is needed to tow an 8k lb trailer are welcome to go that route. (I guess if you're going to have 20% tongue weight you'll need it. lol) But there are plenty of examples of 2500s being over payload but well within GVWR, GCWR, and GAWRs that are all 100% legal since payload is not a legally binding number. It's a number generated by an arbitrary starting point minus the vehicle curb weight.

Ram really needs to get with the program, as Ford and Chevy have, and up the GVWR on their 3/4 ton truck lineup to get more realistic and functional payload numbers of what the 2500 is genuinely able to handle. These pathetic payload numbers on the Ram 2500 Cummins is just that, pathetic. Follow Ford and Chevy and use a higher standard GVWR but offer a 9900 and 10,000 option and let the buyer choose if they need to save $$$ on registration for whatever reasons. I suspect/hope Ram will do this once they move the HDs to the full 5th Gen body.

The "pathetic" payload numbers of 3/4 ton Ram trucks is largely due to their curb weight. A RAM cummins 2500 crew cab 4x4 is well over 8k lbs (some, like yours, are around 8500 lbs) where as a new F250 similarly equipped is anywhere from 700-1000 lbs lighter. This directly affects your payload.

2021 F250's are also rated at 10k gvwr unless you have the "towing" or some HD package they offer which bumps it to 10800.

 

[jetrinka]

My 21 PW is the best riding truck I've ever owned. Albeit the springs are softer than the regular 2500.

 

[DougB]

The "pathetic" payload numbers of 3/4 ton Ram trucks is largely due to their curb weight. A RAM cummins 2500 crew cab 4x4 is well over 8k lbs (some, like yours, are around 8500 lbs) where as a new F250 similarly equipped is anywhere from 700-1000 lbs lighter. This directly affects your payload.

2021 F250's are also rated at 10k gvwr unless you have the "towing" or some HD package they offer which bumps it to 10800.

I completely disagree. Having looked at new F250s and seen their payloads around 2700 lbs for Lariats (crew cab, 4WD, short bed (which is actually longer than Ram's by 5") with GVWR of 10,800, thus, curb weight of 8100 lbs. It's actually heavier than a 2500 Limited CCSB. Yes, you need the HCTP on the Ford to get the 10,800 GVWR and without it you get the 10,000 GVWR and then the equally pathetic payload number just like a Ram 2500.

My 2022 MC Laramie 2500 is going to have a payload around 1775lbs putting its curb weight around 8225 lbs. It's a mega cab, it's going to be several hundred more lbs than a crew cab. If Ram would simply increase the GVWR to 10,800, that's 800bs more payload on the sticker and puts it right here with the Ford. I highly doubt there's anything in the suspension that would cause that to not be possible.

The Ram 2500's pathetic payload on the Cummins is solely due to the arbitrary 10k GVWR number they set on them.

 

[gimmie11s]

I completely disagree. Having looked at new F250s and seen their payloads around 2700 lbs for Lariats (crew cab, 4WD, short bed (which is actually longer than Ram's by 5") with GVWR of 10,800, thus, curb weight of 8100 lbs. It's actually heavier than a 2500 Limited CCSB. Yes, you need the HCTP on the Ford to get the 10,800 GVWR and without it you get the 10,000 GVWR and then the equally pathetic payload number just like a Ram 2500.

My 2022 MC Laramie 2500 is going to have a payload around 1775lbs putting its curb weight around 8225 lbs. It's a mega cab, it's going to be several hundred more lbs than a crew cab. If Ram would simply increase the GVWR to 10,800, that's 800bs more payload on the sticker and puts it right here with the Ford. I highly doubt there's anything in the suspension that would cause that to not be possible.

The Ram 2500's pathetic payload on the Cummins is solely due to the arbitrary 10k GVWR number they set on them.

You can disagree all you want. The fact is the F250 is considerably lighter than an equally equipped Ram. Those are the facts.. you dont have to like them, but that's what they are.

Now, there are certainly arguments to be made about whether or not aluminum is appropriate for an HD truck, but you cannot argue, based on opinion, that the F250 is as heavy as the Ram, because it most definitely is NOT.

You also completely dismiss the fact that the main reason an F250 can be optioned with a higher GVWR because of the leaf spring rear suspension on those trucks.

The coils are the main reason the Ram cannot....

 

[Monoman]

Thanks for all of the replies. I love learning new stuff ... and sorry for the 8,000K. 8K is much more realistic. ahahahah

 

[DougB]

You can disagree all you want. The fact is the F250 is considerably lighter than an equally equipped Ram. Those are the facts.. you dont have to like them, but that's what they are.

Now, there are certainly arguments to be made about whether or not aluminum is appropriate for an HD truck, but you cannot argue, based on opinion, that the F250 is as heavy as the Ram, because it most definitely is NOT.

You also completely dismiss the fact that the main reason an F250 can be optioned with a higher GVWR because of the leaf spring rear suspension on those trucks.

The coils are the main reason the Ram cannot....

Not sure how math gets construed as my opinion. GVWR minus payload equals curb weight. There are plenty of examples of F250 CCSB 6.7s out there with door stickers showing they weigh around 8000 lbs just like a 2500 CCSB 6.7. Fords cabs are bigger and beds are longer. They had to use aluminum to keep it from being even heavier.

It is my opinion that the 2500 can handle an extra 800lbs of payload even with the coil springs. It’s an arbitrary short coming of Ram. Leaf spring or coil spring. It’s a spring.

Ram’s 2500 GAWR add up to more than Ford’s F-250 yet the GVWR is much less, this, the payload suffers and people think you need a 3500 to haul 2000 lbs. I’ve seen 2500 CCSB 6.7s with 6000 front and 6500 rear GAWR. Newer 2500s they’ve dropped those down yet supposedly the axles and suspension are the same.

I wonder if Ram is concerned of cannibalizing 3500 sales if they made a higher GVWR option on the 2500.