TCO of Hemi vs Cummins

[pinkerton81]

All,
I just ordered a 2500 and chose a Hemi using the simple calculation below. I'm convinced the total cost of ownership for the Hemi is lower but want to hear more input. Note that my assumptions were that resale percentage of purchase price is equal at 50% after 100k miles, MPG differential is 4, price per gallon differential is $.25, and I did not include the higher maintenance cost of the Cummins

 

[MtnRider]

I don't have a spread sheet handy but in my real world calculations based on what my previous HD Hemi was costing (fuel, mpg, maintenance etc) I have figured as of right now at ~90k on my cummins I have recouped ~68% of the additional cost of the diesel (this includes maintenance) and that does not include resale value. If I sell at this point and use the 50% value I will come out way ahead with the diesel no doubt.
No with that said diesel cost in my area floats around the same price as cheap 85 gas that's what my numbers are based on. If you live somewhere where diesel is $1 more a gallon then gas you will be a little further behind.

Other then fuel filters the maintenance is really a wash. At 15K oil changes (following the manual) I am doing 1 oil change to almost every 2 oil changes required on the hemi so at the end of the day my 1, 12 qt change is no different then 2, 7 qt changes cost wise.
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[pinkerton81]

I don't have a spread sheet handy but in my real world calculations based on what my previous HD Hemi was costing (fuel, mpg, maintenance etc) I have figured as of right now at ~90k on my cummins I have recouped ~68% of the additional cost of the diesel (this includes maintenance) and that does not include resale value. If I sell at this point and use the 50% value I will come out way ahead with the diesel no doubt.
No with that said diesel cost in my area floats around the same price as cheap 85 gas that's what my numbers are based on. If you live somewhere where diesel is $1 more a gallon then gas you will be a little further behind.

Other then fuel filters the maintenance is really a wash. At 15K oil changes (following the manual) I am doing 1 oil change to almost every 2 oil changes required on the hemi so at the end of the day my 1, 12 qt change is no different then 2, 7 qt changes cost wise.
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That's great - what MPG differential are you assuming? 4 mpg better with the Cummins?

 

[gimmie11s]

lol.

What do you plan to use the truck for and where do you live?

 

[RPS1030]

I wish I could buy a 100k mile diesel for 31k.

Sample size of 1 and personal opinion on diesel emissions. If you’re averaging 18 mpg in a diesel, you probably don’t need the capability of a diesel. I’ve had 5 tanks in 30k miles reach 18 mpg. Averaging 15 so far with about 25% hooked up to a trailer.

I’m also borderline could go back to a Hemi or 7.3 Superduty given my usage. But have just enough elevation and straight up “want” the diesel.

 

[pinkerton81]

lol.

What do you plan to use the truck for and where do you live?

I live in Indianapolis and will use the truck for daily driving and towing our travel trailer occasionally

 

[pinkerton81]

I wish I could buy a 100k mile diesel for 31k.

Sample size of 1 and personal opinion on diesel emissions. If you’re averaging 18 mpg in a diesel, you probably don’t need the capability of a diesel. I’ve had 5 tanks in 30k miles reach 18 mpg. Averaging 15 so far with about 25% hooked up to a trailer.

I’m also borderline could go back to a Hemi or 7.3 Superduty given my usage. But have just enough elevation and straight up “want” the diesel.

Here's one for $26k https://www.ebay.com/itm/114992291934?hash=item1ac613205e:g:O6UAAOSwy79hQhaT

 

[RPS1030]

Here's one for $26k https://www.ebay.com/itm/114992291934?hash=item1ac613205e:g:O6UAAOSwy79hQhaT

*that's not a 6.0, 6.4 or IFS Duramax (personal preferences)

The number of 5 year old 100k Rams listed around $50k shows the market preferences

 

[pinkerton81]

*that's not a 6.0, 6.4 or IFS Duramax (personal preferences)

The number of 5 year old 100k Rams listed around $50k shows the market preferences

Based on that point, I adjusted the resale factor to 75% - see below:



But if the MPG differential is less than 4:


I'm hearing many (like you) say the gas mileage is not that great.

 

[RPS1030]

Based on that point, I adjusted the resale factor to 75% - see below:

View attachment 22364

But if the MPG differential is less than 4:

View attachment 22365
I'm hearing many (like you) say the gas mileage is not that great.

Obviously the market is skewed given current supply/demand, but it's in the ballpark.

I went from a 16 PW (Hemi, 6sp, 4.10s) with plenty of mods including 37s, regeared, etc. to a 19 2500 SO (diesel, 6sp, 3.73s) that has stayed close to stock until next month. For the first 15-20k, I was really really frustrated with fuel costs/MPGs and DEF. Finally got past some of the break-in and getting decent numbers on a regular basis. But I've also moved and will be regularly towing the rock crawler down to the amazing trails, so that will be 2500' of elevation gain in 30-40 miles 2-3/month from Oct to Apr and occasionally over the summer. I've waffled a lot on possibly replacing with a 3500 HO just because or going back to gasser (either 6.4 Hemi or Ford 7.3). Availability, leadtime and other money factors have made it tough to change.

Given your description of usage and the feedback I've read on the 8sp behind the 6.4, I'd say you made the right choice with the Hemi being in the midwest and not likely to tow super often.

 

[Brewbud]

The Cummins gives me more smiles per mile than my old gassers. I am not sure how to value that on a spreadsheet. However, as they start cracking down on tuning for the diesels, some of that smiles per mile may eventually go away. FWIW - I know some that also buy the diesel as "the last truck they are going to buy" aka they are going to keep it a long time. I said that too with my previous diesel

 

[gimmie11s]

I live in Indianapolis and will use the truck for daily driving and towing our travel trailer occasionally

Perfect. What does the trailer weigh?

It sounds like the gas motor might be the best bet unless the trailer is over 12k lbs.

 

[RAM_Dad]

If there isn’t a requirement for diesel (like a large 5er), then gas will always be the economical choice. But if you had a 14k trailer that you tow a lot, then it gets to the point where gas shouldn’t be in the conversation. Especially if you are hitting a lot of elevation.

 

[Brutal_HO]

If you're towing heavy, the mileage spread isn't going to be as much as you might think. Sounds like your big difference will be commuting. While you might see higher numbers on the highway, the amount of fuel used during warmup and regens is going to bring your averages down.

You're also going to have a lot less payload with a 2500 diesel. If you ever move up to a 5th wheel, you're going to regret not getting the 3500.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I was just thinking about this earlier today. funny I now find this thread.

I have never owned a diesel so please forgive me.

So the initial price is about 10K different between gas and diesel, no matter which brand you buy it seems.

Diesels seem to hold value longer, not sure why.

Maintenance seems to be higher on a diesel as are repairs. Not talking basic maintenance like filters and oil, but all the rest.

Gas mileage and price doesn't seem to be a big difference anymore like it used to be.

Everyone talks big about how much torque the diesel makes. That's great. But you still have to get all that power to the ground. Good when towing probably, but not good when empty. I can easily smoke the tires in my 6.4l Hemi.

They also talk about how many miles a diesel engine will last. Great. But the rest of the truck will wear out at about the same rate of a gasser, if not quicker because of the extra weight and power.

If you are towing all of the time, then yea, a diesel is great. That's why the big rigs run them.

But for most of us, a gasser may be the better route.

But then again, I could be completely off, never owning a diesel.

 

[Brewbud]

Exhaust brake alone makes the diesel worth it if you are going to tow.

 

[pinkerton81]

Perfect. What does the trailer weigh?

It sounds like the gas motor might be the best bet unless the trailer is over 12k lbs.

The trailer is 9500 lbs fully loaded, more like 8800 as I use it

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Exhaust brake alone makes the diesel worth it if you are going to tow.

Can't you do similar with a gas by downshifting? That's what I've always done.

And doesn't the new gas trucks come with a hill decent mode/down hill brake?

 

[RPS1030]

Can't you do similar with a gas by downshifting? That's what I've always done.

And doesn't the new gas trucks come with a hill decent mode/down hill brake?

Auto Exhaust Brake Mode is amazing compared to standard downshifting.

If heavy enough to gain speed on a decent (my most recent was 7k worth of trailer on 6% grade), and Auto EB engaged. Let off the brake and/or throttle and it will hold it at that speed. I could feel it varying the holding pressure to maintain speed. Even hit the accelerator when conditions/signage specified a higher speed, it started holding the higher speed, brakes to slow to a lower speed, holds the new “set point”. No cruise control type inputs needed.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Whats the point of costing it out like that…..