Regens at alarming rate!

[mbarber84]

I got my truck back from the dealer after the 9th check engine light for the DPF. They replaced the catalytic converter, DPF assy. As of 200 miles the filter shows empty or near empty, only once getting above 25%. I'm hoping for the best, though I'm also wondering if in another 15k miles I'll be going through the same nonsense again. Funny thing that when I got my truck back on Friday I received a recall notice about the DPF system. A long as it's working the way it did new I'm not going to have them mess with it anymore.

When I took it in I complained that the oil level way 3 quarts high and that it was because the oil in now full of fuel. They said that they emptied some oil to make it the correct amount but didn't change it since I'm not due yet. They said they will give me a free oil change when it needed. I'm not going to wait for that. Also they charged me 660 bucks for oil and fuel filter change 3500 miles ago and that was double what the oil change shop charged me. So, I'll just get the oil changed and deal with the filter when it's time.

The DPF recall was likely Y43. Is your truck a late production 2021 or 2022?

The oil should be changed, along with the filter. The dealer should be doing that for you. Their malfunction caused a premature degradation of the oil that was not your fault.

 

[scdo]

I got my truck back from the dealer after the 9th check engine light for the DPF. They replaced the catalytic converter, DPF assy. As of 200 miles the filter shows empty or near empty, only once getting above 25%. I'm hoping for the best, though I'm also wondering if in another 15k miles I'll be going through the same nonsense again. Funny thing that when I got my truck back on Friday I received a recall notice about the DPF system. A long as it's working the way it did new I'm not going to have them mess with it anymore.

When I took it in I complained that the oil level way 3 quarts high and that it was because the oil in now full of fuel. They said that they emptied some oil to make it the correct amount but didn't change it since I'm not due yet. They said they will give me a free oil change when it needed. I'm not going to wait for that. Also they charged me 660 bucks for oil and fuel filter change 3500 miles ago and that was double what the oil change shop charged me. So, I'll just get the oil changed and deal with the filter when it's time.

This is promising. I’ve been pushing for a DPF replacement myself. Please keep us posted.

 

[scdo]

The DPF recall was likely Y43. Is your truck a late production 2021 or 2022?

The oil should be changed, along with the filter. The dealer should be doing that for you. Their malfunction caused a premature degradation of the oil that was not your fault.

Any update on your truck? Has the new DPF been acting normal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mbarber84]

Any update on your truck? Has the new DPF been acting normal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My truck didn’t get a new DPF.
Maybe you’re thinking of someone else?

 

[scdo]

I got my truck back from the dealer after the 9th check engine light for the DPF. They replaced the catalytic converter, DPF assy. As of 200 miles the filter shows empty or near empty, only once getting above 25%. I'm hoping for the best, though I'm also wondering if in another 15k miles I'll be going through the same nonsense again. Funny thing that when I got my truck back on Friday I received a recall notice about the DPF system. A long as it's working the way it did new I'm not going to have them mess with it anymore.

When I took it in I complained that the oil level way 3 quarts high and that it was because the oil in now full of fuel. They said that they emptied some oil to make it the correct amount but didn't change it since I'm not due yet. They said they will give me a free oil change when it needed. I'm not going to wait for that. Also they charged me 660 bucks for oil and fuel filter change 3500 miles ago and that was double what the oil change shop charged me. So, I'll just get the oil changed and deal with the filter when it's time.

Any update on your truck?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AH64ID]

I have a theory on why soot based regens are happening so frequently for some… loose theory, but here goes.

I went into a soot based regen on Saturday. I made it 20 hours since my last regen, so not bad. We were heading snowshoeing so I would have time for it to complete. The PID crept up to 100% on the interstate at 65 mph and the regen started.

Couple things that were different than a 24 hour based regen. The PID stays up at/near 100% until the soot starts to cook off, indicating the estimated soot loading. On a time based regen it drops quickly, likely down to the estimated soot loading. On the soot based regen the DPF seems to get up to temp much quicker as well, 5 minutes this time vs around 10 on my last time based.

Once hot they both hold about the same temp. I did see a spike to 1250° this time, but I think that’s from the conditions. 16° out with snow/slush on the road causing evaporative cooling, I hit a dry stretch of road and the temp spiked but while dropped back to 975-1050°.

The total regen lasted 33 minutes, 28 of which was above 975°. The PID % slowly ticked down as soot was cooked off, the regen stopped at 45% on the PID. I saw the same thing on my last soot based regen. I shut the truck off about 10 minutes later and when I restarted the PID % was 8.2, so the DPF got a really good cleaning.

So here is my theory, the soot based regen seems to run until the PID % is at 45%. If the regen is not completed and the truck is shut off will the regen stop if the new PID % is less than 45%? It’s not uncommon for the PID% to drop with the truck shut off for 10 minutes or more. If so, the regen was cut probably short and could explain why trucks with shorter drive cycles are getting so many soot based regens. Partial regens aren’t good for regen frequency.

 

[Units]

I have a theory on why soot based regens are happening so frequently for some… loose theory, but here goes.

I went into a soot based regen on Saturday. I made it 20 hours since my last regen, so not bad. We were heading snowshoeing so I would have time for it to complete. The PID crept up to 100% on the interstate at 65 mph and the regen started.

Couple things that were different than a 24 hour based regen. The PID stays up at/near 100% until the soot starts to cook off, indicating the estimated soot loading. On a time based regen it drops quickly, likely down to the estimated soot loading. On the soot based regen the DPF seems to get up to temp much quicker as well, 5 minutes this time vs around 10 on my last time based.

Once hot they both hold about the same temp. I did see a spike to 1250° this time, but I think that’s from the conditions. 16° out with snow/slush on the road causing evaporative cooling, I hit a dry stretch of road and the temp spiked but while dropped back to 975-1050°.

The total regen lasted 33 minutes, 28 of which was above 975°. The PID % slowly ticked down as soot was cooked off, the regen stopped at 45% on the PID. I saw the same thing on my last soot based regen. I shut the truck off about 10 minutes later and when I restarted the PID % was 8.2, so the DPF got a really good cleaning.

So here is my theory, the soot based regen seems to run until the PID % is at 45%. If the regen is not completed and the truck is shut off will the regen stop if the new PID % is less than 45%? It’s not uncommon for the PID% to drop with the truck shut off for 10 minutes or more. If so, the regen was cut probably short and could explain why trucks with shorter drive cycles are getting so many soot based regens. Partial regens aren’t good for regen frequency.

I agree, if my truck goes into any regen whether timed or soot load based. I will continue driving until the process has completed.

 

[mbarber84]

I have a theory on why soot based regens are happening so frequently for some… loose theory, but here goes.

I went into a soot based regen on Saturday. I made it 20 hours since my last regen, so not bad. We were heading snowshoeing so I would have time for it to complete. The PID crept up to 100% on the interstate at 65 mph and the regen started.

Couple things that were different than a 24 hour based regen. The PID stays up at/near 100% until the soot starts to cook off, indicating the estimated soot loading. On a time based regen it drops quickly, likely down to the estimated soot loading. On the soot based regen the DPF seems to get up to temp much quicker as well, 5 minutes this time vs around 10 on my last time based.

Once hot they both hold about the same temp. I did see a spike to 1250° this time, but I think that’s from the conditions. 16° out with snow/slush on the road causing evaporative cooling, I hit a dry stretch of road and the temp spiked but while dropped back to 975-1050°.

The total regen lasted 33 minutes, 28 of which was above 975°. The PID % slowly ticked down as soot was cooked off, the regen stopped at 45% on the PID. I saw the same thing on my last soot based regen. I shut the truck off about 10 minutes later and when I restarted the PID % was 8.2, so the DPF got a really good cleaning.

So here is my theory, the soot based regen seems to run until the PID % is at 45%. If the regen is not completed and the truck is shut off will the regen stop if the new PID % is less than 45%? It’s not uncommon for the PID% to drop with the truck shut off for 10 minutes or more. If so, the regen was cut probably short and could explain why trucks with shorter drive cycles are getting so many soot based regens. Partial regens aren’t good for regen frequency.

I think this is what leads to the false P242F codes you see popping up as well. They either knowingly or inadvertently interrupt the regeneration and this causes soot to be left over. The next cycle may complete when the truck runs again, but if it’s the following day, a change in driving conditions or parameters in the system results in some of the soot not being effectively removed. The truck then “sees” that remaining soot as ash. Build up enough of that, and you get P242F

 

[RonWagnon]

I agree, if my truck goes into any regen whether timed or soot load based. I will continue driving until the process has completed.

That's what I was doing the first 3-4 times, but I don't have 30-40 minutes extra to drive every other day when it goes into regen no matter what my driving habits. Mine is going into Regen every 45-65 miles. I have on several occasions had 2 Regens occur in a 115 mile run at 60+ mph (all highway). Been to dealer approx. 5 times now. Just had the MAP Sensor changed yesterday and I'm pretty sure it's not going to solve the Frequent Regen problem. The reason I think this is because when I dropped the truck off yesterday morning it was in a Regen that began on my way to the dealership. I picked the truck up yesterday afternoon (0% on EVIC) and drove 12 miles home. When I parked in the garage EVIC was still at 0%. This morning when I started it to go to work EVIC registered 12.5%. Drove to work (12.5 miles - avg. 50 mph.) and the EVIC was up to 25% when I parked. I expect it to go into Regen this afternoon and plan to drive through the next Regen process since it is the first one after the MAP Sensor install. Who knows, maybe it will take a couple of Regens to adjust but I'm not going to hold my breath. Spoke with the tech and he said next course of action will be to change the DPF. Also, so far the dealership has checked everything for leaks, changed air filter, changed EGR valve, and installed all new injectors.

 

[mbarber84]

I agree, if my truck goes into any regen whether timed or soot load based. I will continue driving until the process has completed.

This is the way.

No matter how inconvenient it is, allowing the cycle to finish is always going to be better than interrupting it.

I’m close friends with several fleet mechanics (good ones) at large OTR fleets local to me. They have a lot of trouble with some of their drivers not taking the regeneration cycles seriously. They will interrupt them at will because “it’s not my truck”. Never fails, their tractors are the ones down more often for emissions related failures than the drivers who pay attention and drive the truck responsibly.

 

[mbarber84]

That's what I was doing the first 3-4 times, but I don't have 30-40 minutes extra to drive every other day when it goes into regen no matter what my driving habits. Mine is going into Regen every 45-65 miles. I have on several occasions had 2 Regens occur in a 115 mile run at 60+ mph (all highway). Been to dealer approx. 5 times now. Just had the MAP Sensor changed yesterday and I'm pretty sure it's not going to solve the Frequent Regen problem. The reason I think this is because when I dropped the truck off yesterday morning it was in a Regen that began on my way to the dealership. I picked the truck up yesterday afternoon (0% on EVIC) and drove 12 miles home. When I parked in the garage EVIC was still at 0%. This morning when I started it to go to work EVIC registered 12.5%. Drove to work (12.5 miles - avg. 50 mph.) and the EVIC was up to 25% when I parked. I expect it to go into Regen this afternoon and plan to drive through the next Regen process since it is the first one after the MAP Sensor install. Who knows, maybe it will take a couple of Regens to adjust but I'm not going to hold my breath. Spoke with the tech and he said next course of action will be to change the DPF. Also, so far the dealership has checked everything for leaks, changed air filter, changed EGR valve, and installed all new injectors.

In your situation it’s a little different. When the system is clearly malfunctioning, it makes it nearly impossible to allow them to complete. You’re seeing regeneration cycles 8 to 10 times more frequently than the truck should. No one has the time to babysit the truck to that degree of inconvenience and I don’t think anyone here would blame you. Nor should the dealer.

Have they borescoped your DOC / DPF yet? Yours may be one of the ones that has a physical failure and needs replacement.

Also, I’m assuming you are aware by now that you need to monitor your oil level in the crankcase very closely? Too much regeneration means high fuel dilution and increased sump levels. That will eventually make its way through the CCV system and into the intake air stream, which in turn will aggravate your regeneration issue further.

 

[RonWagnon]

In your situation it’s a little different. When the system is clearly malfunctioning, it makes it nearly impossible to allow them to complete. You’re seeing regeneration cycles 8 to 10 times more frequently than the truck should. No one has the time to babysit the truck to that degree of inconvenience and I don’t think anyone here would blame you. Nor should the dealer.

Have they borescoped your DOC / DPF yet? Yours may be one of the ones that has a physical failure and needs replacement.

Also, I’m assuming you are aware by now that you need to monitor your oil level in the crankcase very closely? Too much regeneration means high fuel dilution and increased sump levels. That will eventually make its way through the CCV system and into the intake air stream, which in turn will aggravate your regeneration issue further.

I don't think they have bore scoped the DPF. The tech mentioned it on a previous visit but I did not remember to ask if he ever did. Also, yes am aware of checking the oil levels. I also reminded the tech to check as well. The tech also stated they are working with RAM engineers with regard to my problem.

 

[AH64ID]

That's what I was doing the first 3-4 times, but I don't have 30-40 minutes extra to drive every other day when it goes into regen no matter what my driving habits. Mine is going into Regen every 45-65 miles. I have on several occasions had 2 Regens occur in a 115 mile run at 60+ mph (all highway). Been to dealer approx. 5 times now. Just had the MAP Sensor changed yesterday and I'm pretty sure it's not going to solve the Frequent Regen problem. The reason I think this is because when I dropped the truck off yesterday morning it was in a Regen that began on my way to the dealership. I picked the truck up yesterday afternoon (0% on EVIC) and drove 12 miles home. When I parked in the garage EVIC was still at 0%. This morning when I started it to go to work EVIC registered 12.5%. Drove to work (12.5 miles - avg. 50 mph.) and the EVIC was up to 25% when I parked. I expect it to go into Regen this afternoon and plan to drive through the next Regen process since it is the first one after the MAP Sensor install. Who knows, maybe it will take a couple of Regens to adjust but I'm not going to hold my breath. Spoke with the tech and he said next course of action will be to change the DPF. Also, so far the dealership has checked everything for leaks, changed air filter, changed EGR valve, and installed all new injectors.

Do you have the ability to tow something moderately heavy for an hour or so?

 

[Units]

I don't think they have bore scoped the DPF. The tech mentioned it on a previous visit but I did not remember to ask if he ever did. Also, yes am aware of checking the oil levels. I also reminded the tech to check as well. The tech also stated they are working with RAM engineers with regard to my problem.

Fingers crossed I never have any problems out of this one after my 6.4l debacle. Having an f’d up truck and making payments on it sucks. Hope they get it worked out for you.

 

[CaptainMike]

My regens do not fit any of these scenarios. It doesn't matter what I've done or how I drive it seems completely random and unpredictable. Most of the time it regens every 2 - 4 engine hours, but occasionally up to 8 hours. My crankcase is constantly being diluted with fuel and I change it every 30 days or so. It's scheduled for the MAFS replacement tomorrow, but I don't expect anything to change.

 

[kfscoll]

As mentioned previously, I've also noticed that there's a fine line between the speeds that create passive regeneration and those that cause additional soot load. For example, on Monday I went out for a highway drive (my DPF gauge started at zero) and at about 35 miles in while driving approximately 60 mph because of traffic my gauge went up by one notch. It took an additional 100 miles of driving at 75+ for the DPF indicator to drop back down to zero. Then last night, I went out for another 80 mile drive, this time averaging about 78 mph the entire time, and the DPF gauge never moved off of zero.

It also seemed to me that I was able to get in a bunch more miles of mixed driving right after my last timer-based regen before the DPF gauge started to move. In a way this makes sense because the timer-based regen began when my DPF gauge was already reading zero, so it probably got quite well cleaned out by the time the timer-based regen was complete. I think I got 400 miles in of mixed driving before the DPF gauge moved. I also suspect that the extremely cold temperatures we've had lately are preventing the exhaust system from quickly getting up to and maintaining the temperatures required for passive regen which is why once the first notch on the DPF appears it takes so long to burn it off through passive regeneration.

There has to be a software element to this because otherwise my truck is driving great. I bet if I weren't watching the DPF gauge like a hawk and keeping the soot load down through passive regens I'd be regenerating every 300 miles best-case in mixed driving. Good thing diesel fuel is so cheap...oh, wait...

As it stands right now I'm about 1000 miles/17 hours since my last active regeneration which was timer-based. I'm trying to drive the truck so that I avoid any soot-load based regenerations, but that's not really going to be sustainable forever since it takes a long time driving, particularly in these colder weather conditions, to get the EGTs high enough for long enough for effective passive regen.

One last thing - my driveway where I park my truck is a pretty steep incline so it's extremely tough for me to get accurate oil-level readings. I'm kind of going on faith that by avoiding active regens as much as possible my oil levels are staying in the sane range. I'll have to park on a flat part of the street this evening so I can get a good look at my oil level.

 

[RonWagnon]

Do you have the ability to tow something moderately heavy for an hour or so?

We have a 45' 5th Wheel (17.5k lbs. loaded). That's the only time I haven't seen an Automatic Regen is while towing the 5th Wheel. It's been a several months since I've hooked it up and towed. I have towed since this problem began, however was not monitoring DPF temps & gages as closely at the time as I didn't realize this issue would not be easily resolved by RAM. You think taking it for a spin may help in some way?

 

[Units]

We have a 45' 5th Wheel (17.5k lbs. loaded). That's the only time I haven't seen an Automatic Regen is while towing the 5th Wheel. It's been a several months since I've hooked it up and towed. I have towed since this problem began, however was not monitoring DPF temps & gages as closely at the time as I didn't realize this issue would not be easily resolved by RAM. You think taking it for a spin may help in some way?

I know our situations are totally not the same but, when I tow my 7000# TT (yes I know not quite the same as a 5er) after about say 10-15 minutes, no matter what my DPF gauge reads, it drops to zero and stays there. Would be worth a shot.

 

[kfscoll]

We have a 45' 5th Wheel (17.5k lbs. loaded). That's the only time I haven't seen an Automatic Regen is while towing the 5th Wheel. It's been a several months since I've hooked it up and towed. I have towed since this problem began, however was not monitoring DPF temps & gages as closely at the time as I didn't realize this issue would not be easily resolved by RAM. You think taking it for a spin may help in some way?

Oh heck yeah. If you can hook your fifth wheel up and drive it around for an hour that should definitely get your EGTs high enough to passively burn off any soot in your DPF. The longer your drive your trailer the more soot you'll cook off. Of course, how long it takes for the soot to build back up once you disconnect your trailer is dependent on several factors, the biggest of which seems to be how much highway driving you do. If you do mainly stop-and-go driving when you're not hauling your trailer, your soot load will probably increase fairly rapidly.

If I hook up my very light boat (it's probably 4k pounds max) my DPF gauge drops to zero very rapidly. I imagine the boat is acting like a big sail behind the truck and really works the engine hard just because of the additional wind resistance.

It would've been nice if Cummins had designed these things with a seventh injector so that excessive active regens wouldn't be diluting the engine oil. Frequent regens still wouldn't be a great thing, but at least we wouldn't have to worry about overfilling the crankcase with diluted oil.

 

[AH64ID]

We have a 45' 5th Wheel (17.5k lbs. loaded). That's the only time I haven't seen an Automatic Regen is while towing the 5th Wheel. It's been a several months since I've hooked it up and towed. I have towed since this problem began, however was not monitoring DPF temps & gages as closely at the time as I didn't realize this issue would not be easily resolved by RAM. You think taking it for a spin may help in some way?

It can’t hurt. Give the DPF a good passive cooking on the highway or interstate for 60-90 minutes. Then you should be clean and able to see if your problems persist.