Oil to use?

[Lord muta]

Hey all. In the PW manual it states several different oil weights. Has anyone posted a thread going over different oils you can use. I’ve only used 0w40 in mine but saw others listed in the manual. Just wondering.

 

[Firebird]

I always run Redline 5w40 in my 6.4's

 

[Buckeye6.4]

I run redline 5w30 but have used Amsoil 0w40 in the past. The redline makes a huge difference in the way it sounds compared to the Amsoil. The Amsoil is a great oil but the hemi’s sound better on redline.

 

[Riddick]

The 6,4L Hemi was designed and tested with a specific oil which can be purchased at the dealership along with the filter. Many years ago I worked in a Tier 1 direct supplier (Siemens VDO) to the automotive industry and was involved in testing. I have visited companies such as Afton Chemical where oil additives are created and tested, and observed dynamometer testing at the same location, and visited their test tracks where vehicles with the same engines being tested on the dynos are run in real life.

If you believe for a second that a snake oil company like amsoil or redline has anything better to offer, you are wrong. Buy OEM and spend the extra $20 on an oil change for your $75k truck.

Your comment will generate a ton of debate. Amsoil products are clearly superior, a oil analysis will show this. The question at large is are there benefits to running these oils long term vs. off the shelf oils? I used to be a big Amsoil fan but have started saving my money and use what's on the shelf at Walmart with OEM filters.

 

[Buckeye6.4]

The 6,4L Hemi was designed and tested with a specific oil which can be purchased at the dealership along with the filter. Many years ago I worked in a Tier 1 direct supplier (Siemens VDO) to the automotive industry and was involved in testing. I have visited companies such as Afton Chemical where oil additives are created and tested, and observed dynamometer testing at the same location, and visited their test tracks where vehicles with the same engines being tested on the dynos are run in real life.

If you believe for a second that a snake oil company like amsoil or redline has anything better to offer, you are wrong. Buy OEM and spend the extra $20 on an oil change for your $75k truck.

You are going to spend more than 20 extra dollars for redline or Amsoil. It’s not about saving money on either of them. It’s about a higher quality oil than what oem calls for. Not saying pennzoil isn’t a good quality oil but oils like redline have different additives added into them. Which the hemi needs. By no means is Amsoil or redline a snake oil. A simple internet search and you will find threads supporting it. Pennzoil works great for some but if you end up with a tick you will want something different like redline.

 

[joshuaeb09]

You are going to spend more than 20 extra dollars for redline or Amsoil. It’s not about saving money on either of them. It’s about a higher quality oil than what oem calls for. Not saying pennzoil isn’t a good quality oil but oils like redline have different additives added into them. Which the hemi needs. By no means is Amsoil or redline a snake oil. A simple internet search and you will find threads supporting it. Pennzoil works great for some but if you end up with a tick you will want something different like redline.

There have been tons of discussions on this over the years, but IMO and in short - The modern Hemi has a sub-optimal oiling design for the cam/lifters. You can overcome this with a better AW add pack and avoiding things like excessive idling, but it's not uncommon to hear of Hemi's trashing the valve train. The most common one I hear of/see around here is the 5.7 in police vehicles that idle a ton and get changed with cheap bulk 5W20 - They're pretty well known for trashing the valvetrain. Behind that would be 6.4's in commercial applications where they've been idled way too much and the same cheapest "in-spec" bulk oil changes.

When I had hemi's in our personal fleet they always got redline blue label either 5W30 for 5.7's or 5W40 for 6.4's to try and mitigate any undue cam wear based on RL's heavy add pack that far exceeds modern oil specs. If you look at what modern oil specs target... it ain't "older" engine designs, but rather the needs of lower displacement, turbo charged, DI engines. The 1st thing we noticed was that end of OCI performance was far better with RL in the context of cold start "rattles" and other noises the hemi's are known for. Do I run Redline or Amsoil in everything ... NO. These days the only ones I'm running "fancy" oils in are my cummins and my wifes 2.0 EcoBoost commuter both being on Amsoil. The cummins gets Amsoil due to my concern (how ever overblown it may be) over the hydralic lifters (if it wasn't emissions compliant I'd be looking at something that would otherwise be toxic to the DPF such as Redline) and the EcoBoost gets Amsoil to hold up to longer OCI's so I'm not changing the oil as often for all the hwy miles it sees.

 

[Buckeye6.4]

Yep a ton of discussions. I 100% agree with you on the oiling issue and idling too long. I have no idea of the history of my truck being used and the oil used prior to me purchasing it but I will say that the redline made a huge difference in start up ticks and noises. Cant say it will work for everyone but did in mine from the moment I dumped it in. I also use a larger royal purple filter rather than the oem small can and keep my oci's at 5-6k.

 

[joshuaeb09]

Guys, I am a fact or fiction kind of guy and unless you are able to supply me with objective testing performed under controlled conditions which compare the various oils, in these specific engines, your replies are all just theories. Maybe they are true, maybe they are false, or maybe there is no statistical difference. I don't have time for a study such as this and I am not willing to risk the engine on my vehicle to "try something new and unproven."

I was driving south of San Antonio yesterday and would soon require an oil service - I called ahead to Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram of Calallen in Corpus Christi, rolled in for service, and departed knowing I had the oil and filter my engine was designed and engineered to operate with. If you want to be the oil guy, cool. Me, I will travel, spent time exploring the forests and mountains, and meet buddies to watch big rockets shake the earth.

Fair point - Especially if you're in warranty and don't want to mess with doing your own oil changes. I'm a bit of a maintenance nazi so that when we're out camping, having fun with the family, towing a trailer, or I've got to bounce from home to Austin to Houston and back for meetings on a tight timeline I'm not worried about a lack of maintenance or poorly done maintenance leaving me on the side of the road.

I would have to point out that nothing is new about redline since we're talking specifically about Hemi's. Sure the full Syn Group IV/V basestock is hotness compared to old oils, but the AW combo of high ZDDP + Moly really is an old-school thing - you can look at just about any solid, older 15W40 diesel oil or oils targeted at flat tappet cams for examples. The biggest issue is that modern specs are putting limits on ZDDP and Moly due to the fact they can poison emissions equipment if you're burning oil (more of a risk with these new thinner oils).

When running a thicker oil, such as redline which is always on the high side for in-grade, that is also sheer resistant and keeps its viscosity up - There is a lot less risk of burning oil. Now you take that same heavy AW package and put it in a conventional or group II+/III+ "Synthetic" then yea there is some risk of burning oil which could poison emissions equipment. This wasn't a concern with older engines that didn't have any emissions equipment, but now has to be managed. Of course the specification way to deal with that was to pull back on the limits to be "in-spec", but this can also be managed by taking care of your stuff and being intelligent with application.

If you care to look at some reading material than here it is (non exhaustive list and stuff that's available without a subscription/access) -

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301679X2200010X

ZDDP Tribofilm: Durability and Chemistry - About Tribology

www.tribonet.org

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0169433217302003

Additionally the modern Hemi isn't the only engine configuration to have cam oiling issues, just one of the more prolific. Again mostly related to low RPM and extended idling due to where the cam is located in the block as well as other aspects of the engine design. I'm not a Hemi hater by any means, I loved mine when I owned them. IMO its just one of those things like GM engines burning oil due to AFM issues, Ecoboosts plugging up turbo screens due to too long OCI's and soot accumulation, etc.