Low Clearance Alert on UConnect ?

[Wmhjr]

I don't see it as such a big issue. There are still some 12 million big trucks and busses operating in the US. If anything, that market will grow over time for both long haul and last mile connections. Paper books / route maps existed long before the GPS, and they'll probably go away first. Eventually online apps may take the place of the GPS, but there will still be that demand for apps that have the clearance info. I think it's going to evolve. Right now, you have 2 GPS devices in your truck, it has one built in with the onboard cellular in UConnect, which is also used by the Nav option, and you have the one in your cell phone. Having the 3rd one as a separate device isn't really cost effective for most folks. That will drive the market more than anything else, imo.

You have to remember it's all about scale. That same technology that's in the cheapest standalone car GPS is also used by Garmin for the RV/Truck units. If that "car" use diminishes, then scale diminishes, and the RV/Truck units have to bear the increased cost - which would certainly increase prices. Sales of paper maps have already pretty much evaporated. Online nav solutions have already overtaken dedicated GPS in terms of market ownership on an annual basis. The big issue already is that auto manufacturers and gps manufacturers are struggling to show added value - which has led to a decrease in built in nav being purchased (as an option) right now. Perfect example: in 2017 the "brand new version" of the Honda CRV (which is a great example of a typical and very common new vehicle) had multiple versions, including the EX-L with and without Navi. By 2019, the EX-L still is offered but no Navi is possible. Only the "Touring" version has it - and it's not optional. Why? Because they sold so few Navi equipped. Nobody wanted to pay for them since CarPlay and AA were already included. CarPlay and AA have REALLY significantly taken market share away from Garmin. Both in built in, and separate, Navi units.

 

[Gondul]

And AA and CarPlay are much more intuitive to use than the cryptic commands needed to operate most baked in NAV units, you can search for pretty much anything along your route, they are essentially free (with phone of course) and always up to date. Unless GARMIN (et al) up their game and come up with some value for a stand alone system, they are on a downward slide and if AA or CarPlay get into the game, they will lose.

 

[Distillusion]

You have to remember it's all about scale. That same technology that's in the cheapest standalone car GPS is also used by Garmin for the RV/Truck units. If that "car" use diminishes, then scale diminishes, and the RV/Truck units have to bear the increased cost - which would certainly increase prices. Sales of paper maps have already pretty much evaporated. Online nav solutions have already overtaken dedicated GPS in terms of market ownership on an annual basis. The big issue already is that auto manufacturers and gps manufacturers are struggling to show added value - which has led to a decrease in built in nav being purchased (as an option) right now. Perfect example: in 2017 the "brand new version" of the Honda CRV (which is a great example of a typical and very common new vehicle) had multiple versions, including the EX-L with and without Navi. By 2019, the EX-L still is offered but no Navi is possible. Only the "Touring" version has it - and it's not optional. Why? Because they sold so few Navi equipped. Nobody wanted to pay for them since CarPlay and AA were already included. CarPlay and AA have REALLY significantly taken market share away from Garmin. Both in built in, and separate, Navi units.

Pretty much exactly my point on the evolution, which is already in progress, except you glossed over some bits. Garmin's "same technology" in cars and big trucks is different - in that they don't incorporate the low-clearance data feature in passenger vehicles. If it were the same, then your UConnect would have the low clearance feature, or at least be on Garmin's "compatible" list. So Garmin is already placing the cost burden of that feature solely on the customer base using it. The other points you make are all examples of the market pressures which can and likely will push Garmin further into the app market. They're already there with cell phone apps - health / exercise apps, and Garmin Drive, which relies partly on your phone and partly on your Garmin GPS. It won't take much to push that further, and they'll survive as long as they profit. Garmin's got a lot of smart people, so they'll make it work.

As long as they see those 12 million truckers still need low clearance route data, they'll either keep selling GPS units or merge to cellular. And by the way, the biggest reason that GPS isn't selling so much in cars is the cost. You can buy really good Garmin and other brands of dedicated GPS devices in the $200-$400 price range for any car. But the cost to the consumer for Nav for UConnect is a good example - over $700 for the option, which is just a software upgrade. While consumers get the equivalent bundled from Google on cell phones. Garmin will do their best to delay this, as they have a nice profit margin on the hardware. But when the trucking cell apps sales cut into Garmin's hardware business enough, they'll jump, and maybe keep a small segment for use by the anti-cell holdouts.

Meanwhile, the print copies like Rand McNally's Motor Carrier Road Atlas are still selling. The 2021 edition is out already. And Rand McNally just recently announced its plans to foray into the trucking technology business, specifically related to map technology. I also heard that they may be considering data support for some of the self-driving and autonomous market.

 

[Wmhjr]

Pretty much exactly my point on the evolution, which is already in progress, except you glossed over some bits. Garmin's "same technology" in cars and big trucks is different - in that they don't incorporate the low-clearance data feature in passenger vehicles.

Sorry, but you've missed the point. The only thing not incorporated are additional data elements and code. Those are relatively low cost in terms of COGS. The most expensive components are all shared. There are no roads that big trucks use that cars do not. However, there are some additional data points. So, the constant maintenance of all that data, the production of GPS receivers (the actual GPS bits ain't a bit different), the chips, circuits, etc - they're all the same. Common parts. The only thing that changes is software. And screen size. And even with software, if you really think that the RV/Truck units are completely developed with entirely different code than the Nuvi and other car units, well....... They are absolutely NOT placing the "burden of the costs" of units on the users needing them. Again - the overwhelming majority of costs are spread across ALL units - and frankly are to some extent even shared by their aviation and marine products. The elimination of consumer car products would certainly mean increased costs resulting from significantly different costs of goods sold.

And by the way, the biggest reason that GPS isn't selling so much in cars is the cost.

Actually, that's not even remotely true. The biggest reason that GPS isn't selling so much in cars OR as standalone is because people have become comfortable having their own personal GPS that also gives them a lot more data than any Garmin (meaning where police are currently at, etc for speed traps).

Meanwhile, the print copies like Rand McNally's Motor Carrier Road Atlas are still selling. The 2021 edition is out already. And Rand McNally just recently announced its plans to foray into the trucking technology business, specifically related to map technology.

And a phone book was just dropped off at my mailbox last year. It made it from the mailbox post, to the recycling container. Just because they still exist does not mean that they have any meaningful impact on the market. They don't. At all.

I also heard that they may be considering data support for some of the self-driving and autonomous market.

As I mentioned several posts ago, the GPS manufacturers are all trying to get in on new and additional data, using crowd sourcing. Mesh networking devices, etc. This frankly is probably the only path to the future for them. Today, Waze allows users to sort of collaborate and provide realtime data. We all know the "traffic services" are all junk. Maybe if you live in one of the very few major metropolitan areas they "might" have value. Anywhere else they are absolute trash. However, mesh networks and crowd sourcing to surpass what Waze has created by making that data proactive, rather than depending on users to provide data and feedback.

 

[Distillusion]

Sorry, but you've missed the point. The only thing not incorporated are additional data elements and code. Those are relatively low cost in terms of COGS. The most expensive components are all shared. There are no roads that big trucks use that cars do not. However, there are some additional data points. So, the constant maintenance of all that data, the production of GPS receivers (the actual GPS bits ain't a bit different), the chips, circuits, etc - they're all the same. Common parts. The only thing that changes is software. And screen size. And even with software, if you really think that the RV/Truck units are completely developed with entirely different code than the Nuvi and other car units, well....... They are absolutely NOT placing the "burden of the costs" of units on the users needing them. Again - the overwhelming majority of costs are spread across ALL units - and frankly are to some extent even shared by their aviation and marine products. The elimination of consumer car products would certainly mean increased costs resulting from significantly different costs of goods sold.

Nope, didn't miss your point at all. You just misunderstood what I wrote. I clearly wrote that the cost burden of that feature - of the additional data on clearances and other truck route related data such as explosives and hazardous materials, which is maintained and updated by staff somewhere, including the cost of the extra code to pull/interpret/display/route for that data - is all paid for by the customers that use it, essentially. It's not a huge cost, and I'm not implying that it is. I did not imply that the base software costs are paid for entirely by one subset of customers. And Garmin does charge extra for the trucking routing option. They're making a profit at it, recovering well more than the "cost burden" of all that feature's data requirements. I'd bet money that they have a team that focuses on that option/product, the code addition to the larger base product, and the data acquisition and maintenance.

As far as the elimination of consumer car parts effect, I think you also need to consider history. The average prices of in-vehicle navigation systems have historically been very high. They used to range from $1,500 up, to as much as $3,000. Average price today is still hovering somewhere around $800. And many come with subscription services ranging over $30/month. The effect of large OEM supply contracts led the prices to drop, but industry analysts also blame that somewhat on smartphones. To quote one Ford exec, the in-vehicle navigation system with its high pricing is "an unsustainable model."

At the same time, the portable GPS units sold by Garmin and others are normally less than half the cost of current built-in systems.

Actually, that's not even remotely true. The biggest reason that GPS isn't selling so much in cars OR as standalone is because people have become comfortable having their own personal GPS that also gives them a lot more data than any Garmin (meaning where police are currently at, etc for speed traps).

Actually, it is true. Most people I know won't buy a GPS or in-vehicle nav because they have a cell phone with one in it, and bundled maps they consider "free." I only know one person that even thinks of using a tool like Waze for most driving (to get extra data in the mapping system). The personal GPS is portable, the car GPS can be as expensive as a second smartphone, and they have no need for two. They run with the one they find more useful, the pocket device which messages/calls all their friends, etc. And they don't want to pay more for a car GPS than they do for a new 50" TV or other things they'd much rather own if they have the money.

Also, there's the familiarity issue. People use their phones all throughout the day, but not so much their cars. Switching back and forth can be frustrating. In fact, a study done by JD Power a few years back found that 1/3 of the people stopped using their in-car navigation systems about 2 weeks after getting them. Too hard to get destinations loaded, for example. And they switched to their phones. And they're not going to buy the option again next time unless they have no choice.

Now some in-car systems are starting to include voice recognition, but the availability of Android Auto and Apple CarPlay have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench into the works, too.

About 1.8 million in-vehicle navs were sold in new vehicles a decade ago. 2015: an estimated 4 million, out of nearly 17 million passenger vehicles sold. The following year, JD Power did that study and found that 1/3 of the nav units were likely not being used. Jump to 2020. Lots of vehicles show up with nav preinstalled on the lots. Doesn't mean people want it, or that they want to pay for it. But they end up compromising in some fashion perhaps and buying it. My sister, my brother in law, both of my kids, and my wife each bought new vehicles off the lot in the last 3 years with nav pre-installed and have never used it. None of them wanted to pay for it. Each compromised on it because they wanted the rest of the car or truck. If it had been a dealer-added option awaiting their approval, not one nav would have been purchased. A fellow truck owner friend told me not long ago of his new truck: "It's even got nav. Don't expect I'll learn how to use it. My phone works fine if I get someplace I don't know."

And a phone book was just dropped off at my mailbox last year. It made it from the mailbox post, to the recycling container. Just because they still exist does not mean that they have any meaningful impact on the market. They don't. At all.

Tell that to Amazon and Rand McNally. They're selling them now. In fact, in this article, Rand McNally announced that even though print maps seem like a dinosaur, they're still "a highly profitable business for the company. It’s a cash cow." While they're not as popular as they used to be, they aren't gone yet. And unlike your phone book, which was delivered to you even though you didn't ask for it - truckers buy these books, why would they recycle them immediately? They won't. They'll get rid of them when they feel they no longer need them.

As I said in my first comment, the paper copies will go away first. A lot of folks like you and I don't want or need them. But not everyone feels that way. Yet.

As I mentioned several posts ago, the GPS manufacturers are all trying to get in on new and additional data, using crowd sourcing. Mesh networking devices, etc. This frankly is probably the only path to the future for them. Today, Waze allows users to sort of collaborate and provide realtime data. We all know the "traffic services" are all junk. Maybe if you live in one of the very few major metropolitan areas they "might" have value. Anywhere else they are absolute trash. However, mesh networks and crowd sourcing to surpass what Waze has created by making that data proactive, rather than depending on users to provide data and feedback.

Yeah, the issue is filtering out the useless crowd-sourced data. What good is a pothole notice 5 miles after the pothole? A speed trap notice 15 minutes later? That sort of stuff is some of the hardest to deal with, and the software systems to analyze and filter it can be complex.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I still have a Road Atlas from 1992, do you suppose it's accurate?

ETA: It's from 2002. I must have paid for the upgrade. I think my 1992 edition got wet fording (more like floating) a river crossing with my leaky Bronco II around 1994.

 

[Wmhjr]

Nope, didn't miss your point at all. You just misunderstood what I wrote. I clearly wrote that the cost burden of that feature - of the additional data on clearances and other truck route related data such as explosives and hazardous materials, which is maintained and updated by staff somewhere, including the cost of the extra code to pull/interpret/display/route for that data - is all paid for by the customers that use it, essentially. It's not a huge cost, and I'm not implying that it is. I did not imply that the base software costs are paid for entirely by one subset of customers. And Garmin does charge extra for the trucking routing option. They're making a profit at it, recovering well more than the "cost burden" of all that feature's data requirements. I'd bet money that they have a team that focuses on that option/product, the code addition to the larger base product, and the data acquisition and maintenance.

As far as the elimination of consumer car parts effect, I think you also need to consider history. The average prices of in-vehicle navigation systems have historically been very high. They used to range from $1,500 up, to as much as $3,000. Average price today is still hovering somewhere around $800. And many come with subscription services ranging over $30/month. The effect of large OEM supply contracts led the prices to drop, but industry analysts also blame that somewhat on smartphones. To quote one Ford exec, the in-vehicle navigation system with its high pricing is "an unsustainable model."

At the same time, the portable GPS units sold by Garmin and others are normally less than half the cost of current built-in systems.


Actually, it is true. Most people I know won't buy a GPS or in-vehicle nav because they have a cell phone with one in it, and bundled maps they consider "free." I only know one person that even thinks of using a tool like Waze for most driving (to get extra data in the mapping system). The personal GPS is portable, the car GPS can be as expensive as a second smartphone, and they have no need for two. They run with the one they find more useful, the pocket device which messages/calls all their friends, etc. And they don't want to pay more for a car GPS than they do for a new 50" TV or other things they'd much rather own if they have the money.

Also, there's the familiarity issue. People use their phones all throughout the day, but not so much their cars. Switching back and forth can be frustrating. In fact, a study done by JD Power a few years back found that 1/3 of the people stopped using their in-car navigation systems about 2 weeks after getting them. Too hard to get destinations loaded, for example. And they switched to their phones. And they're not going to buy the option again next time unless they have no choice.

Now some in-car systems are starting to include voice recognition, but the availability of Android Auto and Apple CarPlay have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench into the works, too.

About 1.8 million in-vehicle navs were sold in new vehicles a decade ago. 2015: an estimated 4 million, out of nearly 17 million passenger vehicles sold. The following year, JD Power did that study and found that 1/3 of the nav units were likely not being used. Jump to 2020. Lots of vehicles show up with nav preinstalled on the lots. Doesn't mean people want it, or that they want to pay for it. But they end up compromising in some fashion perhaps and buying it. My sister, my brother in law, both of my kids, and my wife each bought new vehicles off the lot in the last 3 years with nav pre-installed and have never used it. None of them wanted to pay for it. Each compromised on it because they wanted the rest of the car or truck. If it had been a dealer-added option awaiting their approval, not one nav would have been purchased. A fellow truck owner friend told me not long ago of his new truck: "It's even got nav. Don't expect I'll learn how to use it. My phone works fine if I get someplace I don't know."


Tell that to Amazon and Rand McNally. They're selling them now. In fact, in this article, Rand McNally announced that even though print maps seem like a dinosaur, they're still "a highly profitable business for the company. It’s a cash cow." While they're not as popular as they used to be, they aren't gone yet. And unlike your phone book, which was delivered to you even though you didn't ask for it - truckers buy these books, why would they recycle them immediately? They won't. They'll get rid of them when they feel they no longer need them.

As I said in my first comment, the paper copies will go away first. A lot of folks like you and I don't want or need them. But not everyone feels that way. Yet.



Yeah, the issue is filtering out the useless crowd-sourced data. What good is a pothole notice 5 miles after the pothole? A speed trap notice 15 minutes later? That sort of stuff is some of the hardest to deal with, and the software systems to analyze and filter it can be complex.

There is this concept called “correlation”. But beyond that I’ve now missed whatever point you’re trying to make. Don’t know if you’re agreeing or not.

 

[Distillusion]

Is it possible Amazon drivers prank each other by changing GPS settings?

Amazon delivery driver drives onto golf course, wedges van under a tunnel

 

[bfs673]

Thread has been quiet for a while. I've used Sygic truck nav in the past while towing my 5ver. It also allows you to select hazardous gas (Propane). On the east coast (Baltimore area), there is a tunnel. Cops love to pull RVs over that go through (Propane issue in tunnel). Here in northern NY, there are MANY low pass railroad bridges that have caught me more than once, causing an embarrassing turn-around maneuver (Not fun with a 38' 5ver.

It's routing has been a bit odd sometimes; I much prefer google maps, but it works well to keep you off roads with low clearances

I've seen some folks getting this to work now on AA. I;ll try and work through this in the next few months.

 

[Gary Roe]

I amplannig to buy Garmin 760LMT Portable GPS Navigator for my rv. Does this unit have stand alone realtime traffic, or do you have to connect it to a smartphone? If you can do it without connecting it to smart phone, do you need to buy an additional wire/connection?

 

[lovegolf44]

I amplannig to buy Garmin 760LMT Portable GPS Navigator for my rv. Does this unit have stand alone realtime traffic, or do you have to connect it to a smartphone? If you can do it without connecting it to smart phone, do you need to buy an additional wire/connection?

According to the Garmin web site for your device, it has standalone realtime traffic via a power cable/traffic receiver all-in-one. I have the RV 785 which uses the same traffic receiver.

RV 760LMT | Garmin

RV 760LMT is our first navigator for the camper lifestyle. It lets you enjoy the freedom of the open road with the convenience of traveling with a helpful guide.

buy.garmin.com