Looking for feedback on first 5th wheel setup for CCSB 2500

[UglyViking]

Hey all,

I poked around on a few of the threads on this forum, other forums and some youtube videos. I think I've got a decent setup planned but looking for feedback. Long story short looking into buying my first travel trailer this year. Initially was looking at a bumper pull but after reading up on the 5th wheel options I think that would be better suited for my needs, plus it seems to give me a better turning radius and shorter overall length. Truck isn't setup for a 5th wheel so I'll be going aftermarket (with reason, more below) and want to get my hitch setup so I can rent once or twice before I buy.

Truck details
2019 2500 CTD
Crew Cab - Short Bed
Non-rambox model

Suspension upgrades
2.75" front - 1" rear Thuren springs with King shocks
17" wheels with 37" tires (may need to change this up with a more dedicated towing setup)

Hitch & tow setup
B&W gooseneck hitch (link)
B&W 4" offset ball (link)
Reese goose box (model dependent on trailer)
Airlift 5000 bags
Daystar cradles

Trailer
Completely unsure but looking at a new or few year old 5th wheel
roughly 30 foot size

A few of the questions I have:

• The height of these new trucks is pretty impressive, but also means possible clearance issues. Will I need to drop down to factory height rear springs or 35" tires to properly pull a 5er? (fuel, gearing and tire/wheel weight aside)
• I've got a crossbed toolbox I would like to keep, is that going to seriously degrade my ability to tow a 5er with the short bed (assuming the 5er I buy is a more "modern" variant with the sides shaped for short bed trucks)
• is the 4" offset ball going to push me too far back? (I was thinking it would be good for clearance of the cab and toolbox but obviously it has a trade off)
• What else am I missing? I've towed smaller items like jetskis, small bass boats and light trailers. This will be my largest towing adventure by far in terms of overall size and weight. Happy to hear feedback on topics that would help me feel more confident in both my decisions on setup as well as anything that would be of value (such as watching for low overpasses or things I may not know) but please keep any feedback focused (see note below).

Note: I am all too familiar with payload limitations on these 2500s, as well as what my factory rating is for my front and rear axles. I also realize that towing on 37s won't be good for mpg like towing on 33s would be. For the sake of discussion let's please ignore any discussions on payload, "airbags won't add payload", "you can go but can you stop", and all other similar topics. I'm looking mainly for feedback about clearance and setup here, not sticker police (kindly).

 

[kobra]

I think you're asking good questions. And, I think a 30' 5th wheel will work just fine with your 2500 specs.

First I think you are correct in worrying about truck height. Between the lift and the 37s, you've added several inches to an already tall truck. Many 5th wheels are on the edge with a RAM at factory height, so dropping tire size will be likely. And, you have 2 issues to take care of; one is the clearance between 5th wheel and bed rails (want 6"+), but the other is whether the trailer is level. If nose high by more than a couple of inches, you will be overloading the rear axle and tires of the trailer.

Your toolbox will be a non issue if it is at bed rail height, and may be ok even if it sticks up a couple of inches. But if it does stick up, you may find it ok on level ground but a problem if the truck and trailer are on different angles while turning, as is often the case backing in and out of some campsites.

I don't have experience with an offset ball, sorry.

Between the tires and the rear springs, you are kind of trying to build 2 different trucks for 2 different "jobs". One job wants softer tires and suspension with more travel, while the other really needs things stiffened right up - both to carry the load and reduced travel to avoid contact between truck and trailer. Consider that the Power Wagon with it's factory soft suspension has a payload 1000lbs+ lighter than comparable gas engine 2500s; have you reduced your practical payload with that suspension? Will you need airbags when towing to "stiffen" the suspension back up? (I don't know the answers, but giving you things to consider)

Maybe there is a compromise in the middle, but hopefully it doesn't involve adding and subtracting a lot of parts in between "jobs".

hth
B

 

[Brutal_HO]

I'll just caution you that many of the smaller fifth wheels are built with Turning point ala Reese Sidewinder type pinbox setups that cannot be changed or modified. They can be locked out to not turn using a conventional setup, but you can't remove them and install a Goosebox.

I ran airlift bags on my 04.5 2500 for 16 years and while it worked great, I felt it was time to move up to a newer, more capable truck.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Ditch the goose box idea and go with a turning point hitch they are great and you can keep the tool box in the truck, you may have to lift the trailer if you dont have the clearance on the box because of your lift and tires.... even my 36’ i have to lift this year as my 2019 is to tall stock for a level tow

the airbags are a good idea since you put softer springs in the truck and for anyone who says it does not add payload is full of it look at the 2500s that have airbags they have a higher payload and the bags are the only difference plus you will have a more stable load as the bags are further out on the axles increasing the stability of the truck

 

[UglyViking]

First I think you are correct in worrying about truck height. Between the lift and the 37s, you've added several inches to an already tall truck. Many 5th wheels are on the edge with a RAM at factory height, so dropping tire size will be likely. And, you have 2 issues to take care of; one is the clearance between 5th wheel and bed rails (want 6"+), but the other is whether the trailer is level. If nose high by more than a couple of inches, you will be overloading the rear axle and tires of the trailer.

Your toolbox will be a non issue if it is at bed rail height, and may be ok even if it sticks up a couple of inches. But if it does stick up, you may find it ok on level ground but a problem if the truck and trailer are on different angles while turning, as is often the case backing in and out of some campsites.

Between the tires and the rear springs, you are kind of trying to build 2 different trucks for 2 different "jobs". One job wants softer tires and suspension with more travel, while the other really needs things stiffened right up - both to carry the load and reduced travel to avoid contact between truck and trailer. Consider that the Power Wagon with it's factory soft suspension has a payload 1000lbs+ lighter than comparable gas engine 2500s; have you reduced your practical payload with that suspension? Will you need airbags when towing to "stiffen" the suspension back up? (I don't know the answers, but giving you things to consider)

Maybe there is a compromise in the middle, but hopefully it doesn't involve adding and subtracting a lot of parts in between "jobs".

Thanks for the info. Between the larger tires and 1" taller rear spring I've probably added 2-3" max over stock (1" taller spring, old tires measured a little over 33", new ones are just over 35" measured) so hopefully it's not too much. As I said though, I may end up swapping to the factory wheel/tire setup for long trips or (more likely) buying a dedicated towing wheel/tire setup if I find the 37s too much.

Good note on the level ground vs not, I will be honest I had not considered that at all until reading up on people having issues when backing up into some places. Good call out. I think as long as I can keep my current toolbox, or even if I'm forced to buy a newer slim top (mine is sort of in between) I'm happy with that, just as long as I can keep it.

Yeah, I totally get I'm trying to sort of "do it all" and there will be compromises. I do plan to add airbags, so I think whatever I may have lost with the softer springs will be more than made up for with the airbags.

 

[UglyViking]

I'll just caution you that many of the smaller fifth wheels are built with Turning point ala Reese Sidewinder type pinbox setups that cannot be changed or modified. They can be locked out to not turn using a conventional setup, but you can't remove them and install a Goosebox.

I ran airlift bags on my 04.5 2500 for 16 years and while it worked great, I felt it was time to move up to a newer, more capable truck.

Ah, I was not aware of that. I really would rather have a goose hitch as I feel they are just more functional for the items I would be towing and keeping plenty of bed space open. I'll have to see what the pinbox allows for as that may become the deciding factor.

Maybe my next truck will be something that is more capable, but for the moment I feel like the amount of times I'm towing/carrying a full bed is low, generally weekend only, and I do like the ride comfort of the coil rear, handles great on road and off. If this truck craps out early or I just get an itch for something new maybe I'll look to swap then. Hoping to get her to the million mile club though.

 

[UglyViking]

Ditch the goose box idea and go with a turning point hitch they are great and you can keep the tool box in the truck, you may have to lift the trailer if you dont have the clearance on the box because of your lift and tires.... even my 36’ i have to lift this year as my 2019 is to tall stock for a level tow

the airbags are a good idea since you put softer springs in the truck and for anyone who says it does not add payload is full of it look at the 2500s that have airbags they have a higher payload and the bags are the only difference plus you will have a more stable load as the bags are further out on the axles increasing the stability of the truck

I was looking into that, lifting the trailer, I guess I'm just trying to see how close I am and all. I figured modern 5ers would be setup more for modern trucks, so maybe age of trailer has part to play? Only real concern is that if lifting is a requirement then that sort of puts rental out of the game.

Also, why the turning point hitch? I like the gooseneck as I don't have to worry about bed space of taking a lot of items in/out of the truck when hooking a trailer up.

 

[kobra]

Ditch the goose box idea and go with a turning point hitch they are great and you can keep the tool box in the truck, you may have to lift the trailer if you dont have the clearance on the box because of your lift and tires.... even my 36’ i have to lift this year as my 2019 is to tall stock for a level tow

the airbags are a good idea since you put softer springs in the truck and for anyone who says it does not add payload is full of it look at the 2500s that have airbags they have a higher payload and the bags are the only difference plus you will have a more stable load as the bags are further out on the axles increasing the stability of the truck

I thought the turning point hitches are OEM install only? It's been awhile since I've seen one so maybe I'm wrong on that.

I disagree with the statement that 2500s have higher payload due to airbags. The 2500 class 2b trucks have a regulatory limit of 10,000lbs GVWR and this is not affected by aftermarket changes an owner might make. And, if you are saying that the 2500s with factory air suspension have higher payloads? Not true, the limit is still 10k lbs to keep as a class 2b truck. Payload with a higher trim diesel will be ~2000lbs, with or without airbags. (my last 2500 diesel had factory airbags; nice truck, 10k GVWR, and <2100lbs payload)

Now if you want to argue that in practical terms airbags can increase the ability of the truck to haul heavier loads? I agree with that, but it doesn't change the sticker on the door, so doesn't change the "payload". If the state / highway police want to get nasty and pull out the scales, you will not be better off just because you have airbags; whether factory or aftermarket. It's obvious around here that they don't care much about that, and you see 2500s pulling triple axle toy haulers with tandem axle boat trailers behind. But again, let's not confuse anyone here; payload is set at the factory and is not changed by airbags.

For the OP, I like the idea of the Goosebox and keeping a hitch out of the bed. But you are right in that the toolbox will be a concern.

B

 

[UglyViking]

I thought the turning point hitches are OEM install only? It's been awhile since I've seen one so maybe I'm wrong on that.

I disagree with the statement that 2500s have higher payload due to airbags. The 2500 class 2b trucks have a regulatory limit of 10,000lbs GVWR and this is not affected by aftermarket changes an owner might make. And, if you are saying that the 2500s with factory air suspension have higher payloads? Not true, the limit is still 10k lbs to keep as a class 2b truck. Payload with a higher trim diesel will be ~2000lbs, with or without airbags. (my last 2500 diesel had factory airbags; nice truck, 10k GVWR, and <2100lbs payload)

Now if you want to argue that in practical terms airbags can increase the ability of the truck to haul heavier loads? I agree with that, but it doesn't change the sticker on the door, so doesn't change the "payload". If the state / highway police want to get nasty and pull out the scales, you will not be better off just because you have airbags; whether factory or aftermarket. It's obvious around here that they don't care much about that, and you see 2500s pulling triple axle toy haulers with tandem axle boat trailers behind. But again, let's not confuse anyone here; payload is set at the factory and is not changed by airbags.

For the OP, I like the idea of the Goosebox and keeping a hitch out of the bed. But you are right in that the toolbox will be a concern.

B

Well, that didn't take long. This was the exact conversation I was trying to avoid.

For the sake of closing this out. I am well aware that airbags will not change the legal payload of the vehicle. Nothing you as an end consumer will ever make the legal payload higher than what the sticker says. Full stop.

That said, let's not pretend that adding airbags won't change the actual payload, or that altering springs will not alter payload for the better or worse. There is a distinction between functional payload and legal payload.

I would rather not go down the path of arguing about the law, what DOT/highway patrol will do vs what is likely, personal experience etc. Let's just assume that I am staying well within my functional and legal payloads for the purpose of this discussion.

P.S. Not trying to be a jerk here, I've just seen these conversations spiral out of control before and I'd rather just keep focused on my initial set of questions. I only responded with more detail so that there is no concern that I am unaware and thus someone is leading me down the wrong path.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I was looking into that, lifting the trailer, I guess I'm just trying to see how close I am and all. I figured modern 5ers would be setup more for modern trucks, so maybe age of trailer has part to play? Only real concern is that if lifting is a requirement then that sort of puts rental out of the game.

Also, why the turning point hitch? I like the gooseneck as I don't have to worry about bed space of taking a lot of items in/out of the truck when hooking a trailer up.

The newer ones are taller slightly but still some are not tall enough, the turning point hits puts the pivot back further for your toolbox

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I thought the turning point hitches are OEM install only? It's been awhile since I've seen one so maybe I'm wrong on that.

I disagree with the statement that 2500s have higher payload due to airbags. The 2500 class 2b trucks have a regulatory limit of 10,000lbs GVWR and this is not affected by aftermarket changes an owner might make. And, if you are saying that the 2500s with factory air suspension have higher payloads? Not true, the limit is still 10k lbs to keep as a class 2b truck. Payload with a higher trim diesel will be ~2000lbs, with or without airbags. (my last 2500 diesel had factory airbags; nice truck, 10k GVWR, and <2100lbs payload)

Now if you want to argue that in practical terms airbags can increase the ability of the truck to haul heavier loads? I agree with that, but it doesn't change the sticker on the door, so doesn't change the "payload". If the state / highway police want to get nasty and pull out the scales, you will not be better off just because you have airbags; whether factory or aftermarket. It's obvious around here that they don't care much about that, and you see 2500s pulling triple axle toy haulers with tandem axle boat trailers behind. But again, let's not confuse anyone here; payload is set at the factory and is not changed by airbags.

For the OP, I like the idea of the Goosebox and keeping a hitch out of the bed. But you are right in that the toolbox will be a concern.

B

Police/ dot usually turn a blind eye to rvs, these classes you mention are your province typically not the rest of the world...

 

[kobra]

Well, that didn't take long. This was the exact conversation I was trying to avoid.

For the sake of closing this out. I am well aware that airbags will not change the legal payload of the vehicle. Nothing you as an end consumer will ever make the legal payload higher than what the sticker says. Full stop.

That said, let's not pretend that adding airbags won't change the actual payload, or that altering springs will not alter payload for the better or worse. There is a distinction between functional payload and legal payload.

I would rather not go down the path of arguing about the law, what DOT/highway patrol will do vs what is likely, personal experience etc. Let's just assume that I am staying well within my functional and legal payloads for the purpose of this discussion.

P.S. Not trying to be a jerk here, I've just seen these conversations spiral out of control before and I'd rather just keep focused on my initial set of questions. I only responded with more detail so that there is no concern that I am unaware and thus someone is leading me down the wrong path.

Sorry but I think you totally misread what I was saying.
If you read all of my comments you will see that I believe you are making a good choice with a 30' trailer and asking the right questions.

But let's also not pretend that it's ok to spread misinformation either. I acknowledged (and agree) with what you are saying, and I wasn't responding to your post. I was correcting the misinformation about airbags and payload.

Just trying to help, buddy. Do with it what you choose.

B

 

[kobra]

Police/ dot usually turn a blind eye to rvs, these classes you mention are your province typically not the rest of the world...

I agree RV's get a break and I said so.
But no, the classes I referenced are from USA DOT and have been adopted by many provinces.
But I'm done correcting the misinformation here; carry on ...

B

 

[UglyViking]

Sorry but I think you totally misread what I was saying.
If you read all of my comments you will see that I believe you are making a good choice with a 30' trailer and asking the right questions.

But let's also not pretend that it's ok to spread misinformation either. I acknowledged (and agree) with what you are saying, and I wasn't responding to your post. I was correcting the misinformation about airbags and payload.

Just trying to help, buddy. Do with it what you choose.

B

Fair enough. Had I read the full part of @H3LZSN1P3R's post I would have commented on that portion as well.

My point is that I don't want to get wrapped up in the "spread of misinformation" or other arguments. There are two schools of thought, airbags add payload, and they don't. You read it depending if you look at the sticker as a hard and fast rule or not. I really don't want to get into any of the arguments surrounding payload.

 

[Wileykid]

I disagree with the statement that 2500s have higher payload due to airbags. The 2500 class 2b trucks have a regulatory limit of 10,000lbs GVWR and this is not affected by aftermarket changes an owner might make.
B

Actually not true. Take a look at the Chevy 2500 with GVWR of 10,800+. Everyone was keeping the weight under 10K for tax purposes, and not taking sales away from the 3500.

Keep in mind, on the goosebox, with a short bed, you may run into cab issues. At least something you need to be aware of.

 

[UglyViking]

Actually not true. Take a look at the Chevy 2500 with GVWR of 10,800+. Everyone was keeping the weight under 10K for tax purposes, and not taking sales away from the 3500.

Keep in mind, on the goosebox, with a short bed, you may run into cab issues. At least something you need to be aware of.

Please, please let's not go down this road.

Cab issues with the goosebox why? Even with the 4" offset ball?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Please, please let's not go down this road.

Cab issues with the goosebox why? Even with the 4" offset ball?

What would you load by the goose neck ball you cant load by a 5th wheel hitch? The only benefit i see from a goosebox is no heavy 5th wheel hitch to take out of the truck....

 

[kobra]

Actually not true. Take a look at the Chevy 2500 with GVWR of 10,800+. Everyone was keeping the weight under 10K for tax purposes, and not taking sales away from the 3500.

Keep in mind, on the goosebox, with a short bed, you may run into cab issues. At least something you need to be aware of.

@UglyViking - apologies that I responded to the original off topic post, and that it is still going.

@Wileykid - Your statements are not accurate, but out of respect for @UglyViking I will start a new thread.

B

 

[UglyViking]

What would you load by the goose neck ball you cant load by a 5th wheel hitch? The only benefit i see from a goosebox is no heavy 5th wheel hitch to take out of the truck....

I mean that is basically it. It's easy to keep a ball in the toolbox, same as I keep a standard hitch, and get to keep the whole bed open. If I need to help a buddy tow something it's as easy as grabbing which hitch he has and I'm ready to go. To be fair, I can only thing of about 2 times that has happened so far but as I've gotten older it's become far more and more likely.

I guess to better understand your counter, why would I want to use a 5th wheel hitch vs a gooseneck?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I mean that is basically it. It's easy to keep a ball in the toolbox, same as I keep a standard hitch, and get to keep the whole bed open. If I need to help a buddy tow something it's as easy as grabbing which hitch he has and I'm ready to go. To be fair, I can only thing of about 2 times that has happened so far but as I've gotten older it's become far more and more likely.

I guess to better understand your counter, why would I want to use a 5th wheel hitch vs a gooseneck?

Time it takes to hook up its not bad if you have a spotter or a cargo cam but without it lining up to the ball can be a pain in the ass the 5th wheel hitch i can do first shot and be hooked up ready to go in 2 mins