How to make big power?

[thrust]

I haven't seen much information related to big power mods on the 4.5Gen trucks.

Beyond a tune, what is the path to putting out big power (700+rwhp)? I'm more curious at this point but if I keep this truck, it's going to need a lot more power. Money isn't really so much of a barrier but the lack of discussion about performance tends to be discouraging regarding my long term future with this truck.

Have I merely overlooked some exciting builds?

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[jbncccb]

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[Rockcrawlindude]

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That truck is ugly and did that guy come out from under it?

 

[thrust]

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I've seen that but thanks for reminding me. It looks like a lot of one-offs and other custom parts. Obviously, that's a surefire way to go about it but I'm looking for off-the-shelf parts or kits.

Perhaps they don't yet exist? Or, is the project as such that it demands a more custom, one off approach?

Lastly, I sense by the lack of activity in this thread and elsewhere concerning this topic that perhaps there just isn't demand.



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[Brutal_HO]

To make big power usually means delete and with the EPA crackdowns, that isn't happening for the most part and isn't a topic of discussion even allowed on most boards these days with delete threads getting shut down almost immediately. There's plenty of info out there but this forum, being smaller and less performance mod oriented, won't generally help you find answers to making big power.

 

[DeepH20Driller]

What Brutal said. This forums idea of performance mods is mud flaps and bug shields. Or, if there’s a rebel among us, a throttle enhancer! And dear God, don’t mention lifting a truck over 3”. Not saying anything wrong with that, I love this forum and frequent it daily when I’m not working. Just not the forum to find those answers.


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[Brewbud]

What Brutal said. This forums idea of performance mods is mud flaps and bug shields. Or, if there’s a rebel among us, a throttle enhancer! And dear God, don’t mention lifting a truck over 3”. Not saying anything wrong with that, I love this forum and frequent it daily when I’m not working. Just not the forum to find those answers.


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Lifting over 3" is fine if your tires don't stick out 5"........or something like that

There are some posts about making power with non-delete tunes but they are pretty low key. Nobody wants to put their neck out there I guess. Even the tuners are low-key with their stuff compared to what it used to be like a few years ago.

 

[thrust]

I appreciate the discussion. I've been out of the Cummins game since 2008 when I sold my 04.5 truck until I picked up my 2020 last summer.

The limited discussion due to the EPA crackdown makes sense but I wasn't aware there are other forums where such information is more freely shared. I'll venture out a bit more and see what I can dig up.

It certainly makes for strange times, though. Knowing how legendary the Cummins is at making big power but then seeing relatively little discussion.

I recall the times back when I had my other Cummins and there was a lot of talk. At that point, I didn't have the funds to entertain any big power mods. Now, after years of grinding, I have at least a little more discretionary money but can't get a foothold on what's available. Of course, back then I was younger and had far more time to browse internet car forums. Such is life.. Lol.

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[elephantrider]

it's the same recipe that it was with the 3rd gen. air, fuel, and a drivetrain to hold it. the only difference is the illegal activities required to get started. otherwise, no different.

 

[Epsilon Plus]

I think most people these days are satisfied. 850-1075 lb/ft of torque is massive if you were born before 1990. TFL straps 37,000lb trailers on 3500 DRW stock trucks and does 65mph speed limit pulls up the Ike without losing a MPH.

I've always been fascinated and befuddled about how the truck performance world advertises diesel horsepower as well. Who gives a **** about horsepower with a diesel? 750 is a snooze to a boosted LSx gas V8. If I wanted to make a crazy powerful diesel I wouldn't go around saying it makes "750rwhp" I'd be out there big D swinging about how it makes "1,700rwtq" and will drag an aircraft carrier up a hill with no trailer.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I appreciate the discussion. I've been out of the Cummins game since 2008 when I sold my 04.5 truck until I picked up my 2020 last summer.

The limited discussion due to the EPA crackdown makes sense but I wasn't aware there are other forums where such information is more freely shared. I'll venture out a bit more and see what I can dig up.

It certainly makes for strange times, though. Knowing how legendary the Cummins is at making big power but then seeing relatively little discussion.

I recall the times back when I had my other Cummins and there was a lot of talk. At that point, I didn't have the funds to entertain any big power mods. Now, after years of grinding, I have at least a little more discretionary money but can't get a foothold on what's available. Of course, back then I was younger and had far more time to browse internet car forums. Such is life.. Lol.

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I wouldn't say info is freely shared in current talk, there's just lots of the same old stuff out there from a year ago.

You have to deal privately for some of what you might be looking for. Shops and tuners that were doing deletes are either done, heavily fined and done or out of business, or on the EPA hit list and not doing deletes.

FWIW, Calibrated Power offers some well respected emissions intact tuning.

 

[UglyViking]

Just remember that while this truck has little in the way of changes from it's pre-'19 brothers it's still got a few different parts and I'd imagine manufactures are working on them. I'm waiting on a compound turbo setup to be available, I really thought ATS would have had one by now but I'm guessing that they have been focused on other things and I'm pretty sure the turbo change in '19 so they may need to make a new pipe for connecting the two. I know there is a company or two that has 10% over injectors with EO numbers, but I'm not sure if they are available for the 19+ yet.

It all boils down to sort of a perfect storm. EPA is cracking down hard on delete tunes and hardware and a new truck with slightly different setup. I'm confident that more will be available with time, at least for emissions on stuff. Honestly I wouldn't hold your breath for bolt on parts for 19+ deleted trucks, it's likely going to be custom and making it work since the fines are so high.

P.S. That maroon 5th gen was Andy's truck from firepunk. He recently sold it, but not sure why, perhaps he got bored, perhaps Firepunks legal team advised him to dump it, who knows. It's not my style but it's a sweet truck and seems fast as hell.

 

[g00fy]

I think most people these days are satisfied. 850-1075 lb/ft of torque is massive if you were born before 1990. TFL straps 37,000lb trailers on 3500 DRW stock trucks and does 65mph speed limit pulls up the Ike without losing a MPH.

I'm in this camp, 850ft/lbs is plenty, I'd just like to get an off the shelf emissions intact tune like the GDE tune I had in my Ecodiesel. Modest bump in hp & tq, but the real value was in the improved torque curve and much improved driveability. Unfortunately they seem to be hard to come by these days, I'm probably gonna have to try a pedal monster.

 

[UglyViking]

@g00fy You should look into Calibrated Power or American Diesel Power. Both are going to give you a nice bump in HP/TQ as well as a bit better acceleration.

 

[elephantrider]

I don't think you'll ever see a successful twin or triple snail set up with emissions intact, for "big" power. maybe...

 

[UglyViking]

I don't think you'll ever see a successful twin or triple snail set up with emissions intact, for "big" power. maybe...

Why is that? I guess it depends on what your definition of "big power" is but having more air really can't hurt.

 

[elephantrider]

because the emissions system is engineered to stock fueling levels. you start throwing bigger sticks in front of emissions equipment, you will have issues.

I'd wager any intact tuning will cause issues in the long run, running higher than stock power levels.

 

[UglyViking]

I mean as long as you're adjusting for it I can't see a huge issue. Bigger injectors without a bigger turbo means more smoke, I'm not recommending that at all for sure. If you add bigger injectors you need more air for it, and with the correct tuning you should be able to reduce all/most of the soot. So your DPF should be regenning roughly at the same rate. If it's running hotter then obviously NOx is a bigger concern, and SCR may need to work a little harder resulting in more DEF consumption and you may find that your EGR runs more exhaust into the intake to keep temps down depending on tuning.

It's all a dance for sure but I am confident that with tuning you can easily squeeze more performance out of these engines without massive issues to the emissions systems. To my knowledge the 6.7 has had the same DPF and EGR on it since 2013, yet in that same timeframe the HP/TQ numbers on the HO version of the cummins went from 385/850 to 385/930 on the exact same engine, then up to 420/1075 in 2021. I believe the injectors changed in '19 but to my knowledge the EGR/SCR/DFP system stayed the same.

I'm sure you gotta pay to play in some regards, I'm just saying that I don't think it's gonna be crazy.

 

[jetrinka]

These trucks don't already make big power? Man trying to get my 2nd gen to make 4 digit torque would have re-mortgaged my house....

 

[elephantrider]

400 crank hp isn't big power in the big power world of diesels