H.O. vs STD. Output

[Rich]

Keep yer foot out of it Rich! LOL!

I'll add that for commercial operators MPG is a very important consideration, even in Class 8 Semis. Hook one of these HOs onto a DRV or New Horizons, or a high load on a gooseneck at or near GCWR, and these trucks will quickly get the same or WORSE MPG as a Semi. That is pitiful.

I'm an ole truck driver, what can i say. To 1 has been, that's correct. You haul around 24-26 k trailer and the best you'll be at is around 3.5 miles per/gal. I do have to add, when I'm hauling is when I feal like I'm back in my old seat again and I'm not concerned about saving fuel, ill let it eat and pay the fuel bill.
Now on the debate of HO aisin vs rfe. Somebody please correct me if I'm behind in the discussion and missed something here. I like to play the fuel game from time to time as I've gotten 28 mpg once before in my 2500 HD rfe. But the bottom line is these are not meant to drive around like your cruising around town. They are meant to work, there f*<×/#& trucks. I would never personally buy a $80,000 1500. If iwanted a luxury vehicle, that's what i would buy, not a pick up truck that I can only haul light loads with that's pretty inside and out. Rfe vs aisin , standard vs ho, to me is the same thing. I personally would never knowingly buy a 3500 hd pick up truck to haul , hardly not much more than a 2500 quite frankly. I mean we are talking about a rfe standard being able to pull a 21,700 lb trailer vs the HO aisin that can pull a 34,000 lb trailer and that's with both having the same 410 gear. I just can't make sense of spending that much money on a hd truck, then not be able to haul the most amount. I do get different strokes for different folks and everyone is entitled to there own opinion, so there's mine. Lift yer leg and pee on it if you want, that's ok. I drive a ram drw that has a gcwr of 43k that's not just meant to look good, ( cuz she's got that covered to) but meant to work for any occasion that is brought her way.

 

[Burn'n Oil]

Pretty much nailed it there. I was dead set on an H.O. Until I started hearing the numbers, then got to thinking, only thing I am lacking is payload in my current truck, and really happy with the pulling and mileage. Yes, they are trucks and aren’t bought for mileage,BUT, I doubt anybody just likes to throw $$$ out the window. I have been looking hard at S.O. 19’s, if I could find one I like with air level. Kinda worried about the unloaded ride without it.

The ride without the air assist is ok. In fact, this is arguably the best riding HD Ram/Dodge I've ever parked me caboose in. Certainly not as plush as the girlie trucks but it ain't bad.

 

[Burn'n Oil]

I'll add that for commercial operators MPG is a very important consideration, even in Class 8 Semis. Hook one of these HOs onto a DRV or New Horizons, or a high load on a gooseneck at or near GCWR, and these trucks will quickly get the same or WORSE MPG as a Semi. That is pitiful.

I'll submit that the lacklustre fuel efficiency of the big three's diesel powered HDs has suffered in large part due the perpetual HP/torque pizzing contest they've been waging for the past two decades. None of em push a fuel efficiency agenda. They don't have to, they're HDs. It's all about HP, torque and that ungodly max tow prize.

 

[Rich]

The ride without the air assist is ok. In fact, this is arguably the best riding HD Ram/Dodge I've ever parked me caboose in. Certainly not as plush as the girlie trucks but it ain't bad.

My 3500 drw has the rear air suspension and man o man, we have never rode in a duelly that rides like a car and we've owned drw since 96. The only time i notice the stiffness is when i go over a speed bump when empty on the rear axle only. She's a dream ride and a heavy hauling behemoth

 

[Bozo]

I'm an ole truck driver, what can i say. To 1 has been, that's correct. You haul around 24-26 k trailer and the best you'll be at is around 3.5 miles per/gal. I do have to add, when I'm hauling is when I feal like I'm back in my old seat again and I'm not concerned about saving fuel, ill let it eat and pay the fuel bill.
Now on the debate of HO aisin vs rfe. Somebody please correct me if I'm behind in the discussion and missed something here. I like to play the fuel game from time to time as I've gotten 28 mpg once before in my 2500 HD rfe. But the bottom line is these are not meant to drive around like your cruising around town. They are meant to work, there f*<×/#& trucks. I would never personally buy a $80,000 1500. If iwanted a luxury vehicle, that's what i would buy, not a pick up truck that I can only haul light loads with that's pretty inside and out. Rfe vs aisin , standard vs ho, to me is the same thing. I personally would never knowingly buy a 3500 hd pick up truck to haul , hardly not much more than a 2500 quite frankly. I mean we are talking about a rfe standard being able to pull a 21,700 lb trailer vs the HO aisin that can pull a 34,000 lb trailer and that's with both having the same 410 gear. I just can't make sense of spending that much money on a hd truck, then not be able to haul the most amount. I do get different strokes for different folks and everyone is entitled to there own opinion, so there's mine. Lift yer leg and pee on it if you want, that's ok. I drive a ram drw that has a gcwr of 43k that's not just meant to look good, ( cuz she's got that covered to) but meant to work for any occasion that is brought her way.

the top dog is not always needed. You don’t finish nail with a sledgehammer. The Aisin does come in the detuned cab n chassis trucks. If one gets into a super heavy rv, One could go with medium duty truck. When the RV is parked, the daily driver becomes the tow vehicle unless you have a toyhauler, therefore, mpg(among other things) does come into play. I believe that is why there is such popularity with MH and toads. Personally, I was ready for the top dog with all the bells and whistles until the research revealed lots of quirks and issues, that shouldn’t be on a $90k vehicle. So I refined my search to a lightly optioned tradesman like I currently have. I like this truck but I don’t use it as a daily driver, I use a ford ranger for that, much more convenient to park, fuel, etc. Now, I am kinda thinking maybe the 2500 can be the toad. Hmmmm. Like you said, to each his own. Your money, your choices.........as long as you clear it with government first.

 

[Dialed-In]

2019 3500 dually, 4.10s and Aisin. Towed from western Washington over the cascades stevens pass to Northern Idaho. Had a pretty good headwind most of the way. 36' toy hauler 12'6" tall and weighed between 12-13k lbs. Hand calculated 7.8mpg averaged about 65-70mph most of the way.

 

[Rich]

the top dog is not always needed. You don’t finish nail with a sledgehammer. The Aisin does come in the detuned cab n chassis trucks. If one gets into a super heavy rv, One could go with medium duty truck. When the RV is parked, the daily driver becomes the tow vehicle unless you have a toyhauler, therefore, mpg(among other things) does come into play. I believe that is why there is such popularity with MH and toads. Personally, I was ready for the top dog with all the bells and whistles until the research revealed lots of quirks and issues, that shouldn’t be on a $90k vehicle. So I refined my search to a lightly optioned tradesman like I currently have. I like this truck but I don’t use it as a daily driver, I use a ford ranger for that, much more convenient to park, fuel, etc. Now, I am kinda thinking maybe the 2500 can be the toad. Hmmmm. Like you said, to each his own. Your money, your choices.........as long as you clear it with government first.

Government = aka wife.
Had a Newmar come check out my truck over the weekend. He said , man you can haul more with your p.u. truck than I can with that big ole coach. Yip that's right. He had a 19 ram 1500 limited for his toad. I gave him my # and said if you ever beak down and need a pull to the shop or your next location give me a ring, coach and toad combined. He died laughing

 

[Deleted member 80]

Before I go on, no I do not buy stuff based on youtube videos, but I do watch a few channels from time to time. I just saw V Belt & Sons latest video. Now, here is a guy whose whole channel has pretty much revolved around Cummins powered Dodges, and he is looking at getting an F-450. Why? In a nutshell more HP, more TQ, AND better MPG. Do I care what he owns and drives? Personally, no, I will stick to my Cummins. However, Ram and Cummins better be paying serious attention. Lots of folks are "influenced" by these channels. Is it the engine? Is it the transmission? I guess maybe it's both. Time to get back in the game, guys. I'll add that I do not feel the need to be king of the hill HP-wise, but I certainly would like to return to the days when the Cummins got the same job done, in reasonable time, and was more efficient doing it.

 

[Rich]

Cummins needs to come out with an inline 8. GAME OVER , for years to come

 

[silver billet]

Before I go on, no I do not buy stuff based on youtube videos, but I do watch a few channels from time to time. I just saw V Belt & Sons latest video. Now, here is a guy whose whole channel has pretty much revolved around Cummins powered Dodges, and he is looking at getting an F-450. Why? In a nutshell more HP, more TQ, AND better MPG. Do I care what he owns and drives? Personally, no, I will stick to my Cummins. However, Ram and Cummins better be paying serious attention. Lots of folks are "influenced" by these channels. Is it the engine? Is it the transmission? I guess maybe it's both. Time to get back in the game, guys. I'll add that I do not feel the need to be king of the hill HP-wise, but I certainly would like to return to the days when the Cummins got the same job done, in reasonable time, and was more efficient doing it.

No doubt Ford has the most power at this point. But specs isn't everything. GM is down 100 lb/feet of torque and is rated to pull more than Ram, so how the heck does that work?

The only attractive feature of the F450 IMHO is the wide track turning radius. Other than that, not interested. There is more to a truck than max pulling power. Eg, that silly door chime I hear in all the ford videos would make me want to push it off the nearest cliff.

And as far as looks goes; nothing touches Ram at this point, either exterior or interior. Especially the DRW, thing looks like a beast.

 

[silver billet]

Cummins needs to come out with an inline 8. GAME OVER , for years to come

Would that even fit? Pretty sure they're already looking for every inch in the engine bay.

 

[Deleted member 80]

No doubt Ford has the most power at this point. But specs isn't everything. GM is down 100 lb/feet of torque and is rated to pull more than Ram, so how the heck does that work?

The only attractive feature of the F450 IMHO is the wide track turning radius. Other than that, not interested. There is more to a truck than max pulling power. Eg, that silly door chime I hear in all the ford videos would make me want to push it off the nearest cliff.

And as far as looks goes; nothing touches Ram at this point, either exterior or interior. Especially the DRW, thing looks like a beast.

I agree, I am not a "spec sheet buyer". But, whether we agree with their methodology or not, look at the most recent TFL Ike Gauntlet with the duallies. The Ford smoked the other two up the hill by a pretty wide margin, and the Ram barely edged out the Duradud. Then they ran their MPG loop with a maxed out gooseneck. Same thing, the Ford got better MPG, and the Cummins barely beat the Duradud, which has always been the pig of the group when pulling real heavy. Like I said, I'll stick to the Cummins. The Ford's fan was howling almost the whole way, even in freezing, or near-freezing temps, and the trans temps were well over 200 degrees. When my truck was new, I hooked onto my toy hauler, and did a test pull from Wickenburg to Ehrenberg in July. When I went through Quartzite it was 106' F. My truck pulled the fairly steep pull going East on I-10 in sixth gear locked up, coolant temps barely moved, the fan never howled, and trans temp never got over 180-182. That's what the spec sheet doesn't tell the spec sheet buyers.

 

[Rich]

Would that even fit? Pretty sure they're already looking for every inch in the engine bay.

The front wheel wells would look like the drw bed.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I agree, I am not a "spec sheet buyer". But, whether we agree with their methodology or not, look at the most recent TFL Ike Gauntlet with the duallies. The Ford smoked the other two up the hill by a pretty wide margin, and the Ram barely edged out the Duradud. Then they ran their MPG loop with a maxed out gooseneck. Same thing, the Ford got better MPG, and the Cummins barely beat the Duradud, which has always been the pig of the group when pulling real heavy. Like I said, I'll stick to the Cummins. The Ford's fan was howling almost the whole way, even in freezing, or near-freezing temps, and the trans temps were well over 200 degrees. When my truck was new, I hooked onto my toy hauler, and did a test pull from Wickenburg to Ehrenberg in July. When I went through Quartzite it was 106' F. My truck pulled the fairly steep pull going East on I-10 in sixth gear locked up, coolant temps barely moved, the fan never howled, and trans temp never got over 180-182. That's what the spec sheet doesn't tell the spec sheet buyers.

I don't discount the Gauntlet run and the clear winner - that 10-speed and a few more lb-ft. won that duel going up.

Downhill of course is entirely different and the RAM smoked them both. As most others have also stated, the RAM smokes them all on looks inside and out.

I also dispute that short MPG run on brand new trucks. Not long or diverse enough and they ran them at different times, etc. Too many variables. Plus we all know the CTD mileage typically improves from around 8-10K all the way up to around 30K.

Maybe it was already posted, but it would be interesting to see mileage numbers after some serious miles are on the engine.

 

[Brutal_HO]

The front wheel wells would look like the drw bed.

Huh?

You planning on putting one in sideways? Your not stuffing a straight 8 in that engine bay front-back.

 

[RVTRKN]

Never concidered the Izuzu duramax nor would I ever buy another Ford. My C&C was starting to nickel and dime me with unrelated CTD problems. The POC G56 cost me $6K over a 12 year period, should have opted for the new Aisin in the 07 MY. So when Ram finally got rid of the 3:42 rear diff for the SRW trucks, I jumped on it. At only 6K miles on my 2019 SRW 3500, so far I love it, I don't give a rats &%$ about the Ford. The one record or specs you'll never see, is the shop time the Ford will beat out the Ram on.

 

[1FastHemi]

The front wheel wells would look like the drw bed.

Then it would be called a wide body... Like they are doing the Challenger and Charger... LOL

 

[Rich]

Then it would be called a wide body... Like they are doing the Challenger and Charger... LOL

I need to patent my design, it's Getting traction quick, and big brother is listening in,,I could make millions

 

[silver billet]

I don't discount the Gauntlet run and the clear winner - that 10-speed and a few more lb-ft. won that duel going up.

Downhill of course is entirely different and the RAM smoked them both. As most others have also stated, the RAM smokes them all on looks inside and out.

I also dispute that short MPG run on brand new trucks. Not long or diverse enough and they ran them at different times, etc. Too many variables. Plus we all know the CTD mileage typically improves from around 8-10K all the way up to around 30K.

Maybe it was already posted, but it would be interesting to see mileage numbers after some serious miles are on the engine.

I refuse to watch a TFL truck episode if it has a Ford in it. Call me petty all you like, but they may as well rename the channel to "The Ford Lane Truck". They are incredibly biased towards Ford. Andre, Mr Truck, and Roman, all three of them. Nathan is far more neutral, but even he has made some very questionable calls (rating the Tremor higher than the Powerwagon for offroading, even though he admits the powerwagon is more capable; the reason for that was that Ford offers a diesel. Which, he also admits, would be even worse off road because of all that extra weight up front. )

So I don't know anything about that particular comparison, but what about rear end? They have a very annoying habit of comparing trucks where the one has a very high rear-end ratio (nice advantage) compared to the others.

They also have a very anoying habit of refusing to optimize the truck while working. They dump it in gear, hit the pedal, and that's that; climb the hill and see what happens. "Real world testing" would have any capable driver downshifting way earlier at times, thereby bring up the revs and the power. But no, if the transmission doesn't figure it out 100% on that one particular run, then they just leave it.

Yet; when it comes to 0-60, they do all kinds of tweaking to get the best run. Brake torques, 4x4 auto etc etc.

Then we get to Tommy and Roman and their love affair for Toyota and Landrover. They did a test where the LR has no rear locker and was slipping and jerking up a little section of rock. "I'm impressed!" was said multiple times. And then they test the Trailboss with a G80 locker and pull up their nose at it, because no manual locking rear diff. So it's OK for the LR, but not the Chevy. Makes my head spin trying to figure them out.

So I no longer believe much of what they say. They're very biased at times, have inconsistent testing, and at most I watch the channel for entertainment.

 

[Rich]

The one that pi$$=$$ me off probably the most. Ford's top performer (f450) vs everyone else's 3500. I don't think that there is any debate that the f450 is a beast of a rig but were not comparing Apple's to apples. Also like some have said biases and climate and condition inconsistencies are to rampant to have an equal comparison. Of coarse the biggest and baddest will always get a man's attention first but imop it's always going to come down to plain and simple what we like the most as individual buyers. We can debate the stats and specs until the end of time. I personally don't think I would feal the difference between 50 hp/tq difference in models. Unless your hauling a daily 6 car hauler, most of us probably ( if ever) won't haul a 30k+ trailer and any of these brands will get our jobs fine. For me personally, its Cummins, mopar ram & fca brand that I love. I like the 19s&20s better than the previous years model, so I bought one. I will never buy a ford because i believe they are a cheaper product that don't hold up and the heavy Chevy are just not evolving and our money puts. These are all my personnel views and I will stand by my assessment that for most it will come down to brand loyalty. I love the debating back n forth though, really and truly, everyone has there own facts and opinions, just steered in different directions