Factory Air Ride While Towing

[Justice12t]

So I finally got a chance to tow the camper a few miles...like 40 total. We are leaving for a few hundred mile trip tomorrow. But while towing the camper(5th wheel) the other day I noticed it rode really nice until I hit a bridge transition or road heaves. It would hit hard almost like it was bottomed out, which it wasn't but it was acting like there wasn't anymore give in the suspension. I read the other post about the airbag actuator angle and did check mine. They are both at the same angle but very to if one bag is more firm than the other. Guessing it is just because my driveway isn't completely level. Any thoughts on the bottoming out feeling? Details below.

5th wheel...32ft long...about 10k...about 2k hitch...truck running 65mph...ALT trailer height...80psi in rear tires

 

[21turbogoat3500]

So I finally got a chance to tow the camper a few miles...like 40 total. We are leaving for a few hundred mile trip tomorrow. But while towing the camper(5th wheel) the other day I noticed it rode really nice until I hit a bridge transition or road heaves. It would hit hard almost like it was bottomed out, which it wasn't but it was acting like there wasn't anymore give in the suspension. I read the other post about the airbag actuator angle and did check mine. They are both at the same angle but very to if one bag is more firm than the other. Guessing it is just because my driveway isn't completely level. Any thoughts on the bottoming out feeling? Details below.

5th wheel...32ft long...about 10k...about 2k hitch...truck running 65mph...ALT trailer height...80psi in rear tires

Are you running a 2500 or 3500

 

[Justice12t]

3500

 

[roegs]

Couple thoughts. First is tire pressure. Use the load and inflation table provided for our tires by Firestone. The link is below along with a snip of our particular tire. Then do the math. Here are some rough figures. My new 2021 3500 Longhorn CC 6.7 HO SRW SB rear axle weighs 3200 lbs. with full fuel and myself in the truck. That's 1600 lbs. on each rear tire. (For reference only - front axle was 5100 lbs.) Based on the chart below, I can easily air down to 40lbs in each rear tire for all my DD needs. Rough math and assuming SRW, you added 2000 lbs. of pin weight. That brings rear axle weight to 5200 lbs. That's 2600 lbs. per tire. Giving yourself some wiggle room, you can easily air down to 55 to 60 lbs. That will help right there. Stop at a CAT scale and get your weights - both full and empty. That way you'll be properly airing your tires. BTW....same goes for front axle.

Why does RAM post 80 lbs for the rear tires on the door sticker? Simple, they can only assume one thing, and that's that you are hauling (towing) at maximum ratings.

I'm still learning the in's and out's of the rear air suspension so I cannot say much here except measure your rear wheel well height empty and then with the pin weight applied. They should be approximately equal. Just making sure that the air bags are not trying to over compensate and lifting the rear higher.

https://commercial.firestone.com/content/dam/bcs-sites/bridgestone-ex/products/Databooks/TBR/Firestone-TBR-Load-And-Inflation-Tables-08-07-2018.pdf

 

[Justice12t]

thanks, I'll read through this and check it out.

 

[Ron Meadows]

mine does the same and the rebound is terrible. It's like riding a pogo stick down the road. I hate it and wish that I hadn't gotten the rear air suspension. I have 2600 lbs pin weight and am under all of the trucks ratings for towing and payload...I've had it on 2 different CAT scales to be sure. Add that to the fact that no one seems to make shocks for a 2019 3500 4x4 with rear leveling air and we seem to be stuck.

 

[werard]

mine does the same and the rebound is terrible. It's like riding a pogo stick down the road. I hate it and wish that I hadn't gotten the rear air suspension. I have 2600 lbs pin weight and am under all of the trucks ratings for towing and payload...I've had it on 2 different CAT scales to be sure. Add that to the fact that no one seems to make shocks for a 2019 3500 4x4 with rear leveling air and we seem to be stuck.

These do not specifically state they WILL work with air, however they don't say they will not either: https://www.thurenfabrication.com/c...cks-ram-3500-2013-2022?variant=39607010033844 could call and ask.

 

[ckreef]

This is an interesting thread. I have a 3500 with aftermarket airbags (Airlift 5000 ultimate). Before the airbags my truck would buck bad when towing my 12,500 5th wheel.

Added the airbags and inflated to 75 psi which took the squat out. It tows much better now. Was pleasantly surprised this past weekend on how much smoother it towed when I took the 5th wheel to a CAT scale down a very bad section of interstate.

 

[Ron Meadows]

This is an interesting thread. I have a 3500 with aftermarket airbags (Airlift 5000 ultimate). Before the airbags my truck would buck bad when towing my 12,500 5th wheel.

Added the airbags and inflated to 75 psi which took the squat out. It tows much better now. Was pleasantly surprised this past weekend on how much smoother it towed when I took the 5th wheel to a CAT scale down a very bad section of interstate.

yeah, there is a lot of debate about the factory air system and the way that Ram chose to reduce the spring ratings for a "smoother" unloaded ride. Mine rattles my teeth out either way....my 2017 dually without factory air rode better than this truck does. I'm really disappointed with how this truck operates and will definitely avoid the factory air system in future purchases. There could be some improvement made with increased rebound control in the shocks, but the after market has thus far avoided developing shocks for trucks with the air system. I guess we're just too small in quantity to make it worth their while.

 

[Xflight29]

When I tow our 11K with our 3500 and rear level air bags it tows super nice. Is you rear level working ? sounds like your auto-level is not engaging. sometimes I have to hit the switch to get it to lower the truck so it levels out after desired height is achieved than it rides super smooth.

 

[Ramit530]

yeah, there is a lot of debate about the factory air system and the way that Ram chose to reduce the spring ratings for a "smoother" unloaded ride. Mine rattles my teeth out either way....my 2017 dually without factory air rode better than this truck does. I'm really disappointed with how this truck operates and will definitely avoid the factory air system in future purchases. There could be some improvement made with increased rebound control in the shocks, but the after market has thus far avoided developing shocks for trucks with the air system. I guess we're just too small in quantity to make it worth their while.

@Ron Meadows I have looked and looked and as you noted, the aftermarket Manufactures have not fitted any shocks to the rear with factory air ride and more than likely will not due to the low numbers of these units compared to non factory air ride. Bilstein engineering states they will be but, have said that for two years now. However discussing this with with vendors that test suspension components as well as design their own, they have assured me that the Fox shock 985-24-169 will in fact work with RAM factory rear air ride . I have yet to acquire a set and install but certainly intend to in the very near future. Currently running the Fox 985-24-168 on the front, removed them from my '19 with only 6000 mile on them before selling and even only changing the front shocks out makes a big difference. Ohh, and I never shared this!!!!

 

[Ron Meadows]

When I tow our 11K with our 3500 and rear level air bags it tows super nice. Is you rear level working ? sounds like your auto-level is not engaging. sometimes I have to hit the switch to get it to lower the truck so it levels out after desired height is achieved than it rides super smooth.

oh, it's working. I drop it to the alternate ride height and everything. The main issue happens when traveling over bridges or when I hit a bump.........

 

[roegs]

@Ron Meadows I have looked and looked and as you noted, the aftermarket Manufactures have not fitted any shocks to the rear with factory air ride and more than likely will not due to the low numbers of these units compared to non factory air ride. Bilstein engineering states they will be but, have said that for two years now. However discussing this with with vendors that test suspension components as well as design their own, they have assured me that the Fox shock 985-24-169 will in fact work with RAM factory rear air ride . I have yet to acquire a set and install but certainly intend to in the very near future. Currently running the Fox 985-24-168 on the front, removed them from my '19 with only 6000 mile on them before selling and even only changing the front shocks out makes a big difference. Ohh, and I never shared this!!!!

Very good to know. Was the improvement you saw with Fox shocks for unloaded or loaded ride?

yeah, there is a lot of debate about the factory air system and the way that Ram chose to reduce the spring ratings for a "smoother" unloaded ride. Mine rattles my teeth out either way....my 2017 dually without factory air rode better than this truck does. I'm really disappointed with how this truck operates and will definitely avoid the factory air system in future purchases. There could be some improvement made with increased rebound control in the shocks, but the after market has thus far avoided developing shocks for trucks with the air system. I guess we're just too small in quantity to make it worth their while.

I'd love to read the debate discussions you mentioned. Are you able to provide links? Detailed information on how this suspension works seems to be fairly tight lipped. In theory, this suspension should be the best riding of all the 1 ton trucks, but my seat-o-meter from test drives was that GM had the smoothest ride (from an unloaded rear axle perspective). I've had very good luck improving my unloaded ride by slightly adjusting the rear axle height sensors and by lowering tire air pressure.

 

[Ron Meadows]

Very good to know. Was the improvement you saw with Fox shocks for unloaded or loaded ride?




I'd love to read the debate discussions you mentioned. Are you able to provide links? Detailed information on how this suspension works seems to be fairly tight lipped. In theory, this suspension should be the best riding of all the 1 ton trucks, but my seat-o-meter from test drives was that GM had the smoothest ride (from an unloaded rear axle perspective). I've had very good luck improving my unloaded ride by slightly adjusting the rear axle height sensors and by lowering tire air pressure.

I've looked and looked and read and read......on one of the forums there is a long, 20+ page discussion about shocks and there are some not so friendly posts in it...I just don't remember where it is. There is a company, KYB that makes shocks for 4x4 3500 trucks with factory air, but only for 2014-2018 models. I don't know what, if anything, was changed between the 2 year models and I have asked that question without getting a single response here. I'm very tempted to order them and then measure both the relaxed and compressed length, and if they're the same, throwing them on the truck just to try them out.

 

[Ramit530]

@roegs & @Ron Meadows
While the Fox shocks certainly made an improvement on the front end either loaded or unloaded on my ‘19, the ride of my ‘21 is much different. I had the Firestone tires removed and Michelin Agilis Cross Climate installed prior to delivery which in itself dramatically changed the ride on the truck in a seriously favorable way. So much smoother. Really not a lot of miles on the truck prior to installing the Fox shocks to get a good butt feel before and after.
Speaking of the KYB, I contacted them as well and talking with tech support, I got no where regarding a shock for the rear.

 

[Ron Meadows]

@roegs & @Ron Meadows
While the Fox shocks certainly made an improvement on the front end either loaded or unloaded on my ‘19, the ride of my ‘21 is much different. I had the Firestone tires removed and Michelin Agilis Cross Climate installed prior to delivery which in itself dramatically changed the ride on the truck in a seriously favorable way. So much smoother. Really not a lot of miles on the truck prior to installing the Fox shocks to get a good butt feel before and after.
Speaking of the KYB, I contacted them as well and talking with tech support, I got no where regarding a shock for the rear.

I have the same tires on my truck and they make it tolerable when trying to pull my 5th wheel. The part number for the KYB's 2014-2018 w/ Air leveling is: 5550006 That's why I've been trying to find out what suspension changes were made from the 2019's to the 2020+ models.

 

[roegs]

Kinda wish I'd have swapped tires day 1. After OEM tires wear out on all my vehicles, a set of Michelins goes on and I almost always see a very noticeable change in ride. I'll probably kick myself for waiting so long when the time comes to replace these Firestones.

 

[Ron Meadows]

Kinda wish I'd have swapped tires day 1. After OEM tires wear out on all my vehicles, a set of Michelins goes on and I almost always see a very noticeable change in ride. I'll probably kick myself for waiting so long when the time comes to replace these Firestones.

I made it about 10k miles and we bought our new 5th wheel and I just couldn't stand them anymore!!!!

 

[roegs]

What 5th wheel are you towing? Also, what hitch are you using?

 

[Ron Meadows]

What 5th wheel are you towing? Also, what hitch are you using?

I have a 2021 Cedar Creek 371FL that scales out at 15400 lbs with about 2900 lbs on the pin and am using a 20k rated Pullrite superglide hitch. It's a load for sure, but I'm under all the weight ratings for the truck.