Expedition One Front Bumper

[UglyViking]

This was one of the more interesting things to me. There are two bars, drive and pass side, that both have areas where the coating appears to have letters and numbers within it. I'm not sure what they are, but I'm not super impressed that they are visible.



Here is the more concerning thing. After the initial inspection looking for shipping damage, I started looking over the welds more deeply, and I found that one of the brackets on the pass side, right above the winch bracket mounting location. My fear is that bracket needs to be welded as it helps maintain stiffness while the winch is under load. Now, I don't know jack about welding past that I've always wanted to learn, but this isn't a great look from my POV. Freight damage is one thing, that while it can be protected against by packaging better, is something outside Expos control. However, missing welds is 100% within Expo's control, and I'm a little nervous they let this to to powder, then off to me without catching it. I'm gonna try and reach out to another owner of this bumper to see if he can check his out.

Drivers side, tack welds


Pass side, full welds

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I would request a % of money back and re-paint it myself and finish the welding if needed.

Once you get it installed it will be awesome and you won’t have to deal with them ever again.

 

[UglyViking]

Ok, so a few comments about "don't you wish you went AEV", and the answer is no but yes.

I purchased AEV wheels for my truck about 2 years ago I think, during the height of covid. One of the wheels showed up damaged and my wheel guy said he wouldn't trust it to hold the bead. I called AEV, informed them of the situation and sent pictures. They got on the phone with me that day, and one overnighted, and I was riding with new wheels and tires shortly thereafter. They CS was absolutely fantastic. I didn't pay an extra dime out of pocket, they apologized for the issue, and made it right as good as I could have asked for honestly. I didn't even have to send the wheel back! (don't anyone go asking me for it, I was gonna turn it into something but ended up tossing it)

Furthermore, AEV has vastly better overall "brand experience", they get that it's an important part of the product and they spend the time and money on it.

While I think AEV makes a fantastic product (well, with the singular exception of their Ram suspension that everyone likely knows my feelings about) I think the Ram HD bumper just isn't quite as usable off road, and to be honest, I don't love the look except on 40s. It doesn't look bad by any means, but it was clearly designed for their flares as a package. That and the horrible gap between the lower "eyebrow" and the bumper drive me mad.

Past that, I also wanted additional clearance/approach angle, or at the very least didn't want to lose any. The AEV bumper maintains a lot of the factory look, with a winch. Which is great, but also means that you lose a bit of approach angle over OEM, and def over something like the Expo option. Plus I liked how the Expo had welded bull bars as an option.

Now, onto what's next.

At this point, I'm pretty miffed about the missed welds and poor powder coating. If the issue was just the freight damage, I may have said to cut refund me the price that it will cost to get it stripped and recoated locally, and perhaps a little extra for time. At this point, I'm annoyed with the welds because now not only do I need to have the bumper stripped, but I also need to have it welded, then recoated.

I'm still very interested in an expo one rear swing out bumper, as I think the latching mechanism is pretty brilliant. That said, we will obviously wait and see how they handle this. No one and no company is perfect, so how they continue to handle this will be a real sign both for myself and for others moving forward. Hopefully they own up and make it right.

One last image I forgot to upload. Here is one of the corners of the bumper. It would appear that they did not do any etching to the metal, so I'm not sure how long till most of the edges flake off. (not super in focus)

 

[UglyViking]

I would request a % of money back and re-paint it myself and finish the welding if needed.

Once you get it installed it will be awesome and you won’t have to deal with them ever again.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what they say. I really want to see how they are gonna offer to fix the problem, because that is gonna tell me a lot about the company and any further purchases and act as a sign of either caution or promotion for them moving forward.

I guess I'll wait to hear from them on Friday, or next week…

 

[flan]

What a mess, after all that time and money I don’t know where my head would be at. I wish you the best possible outcome.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

Ok, so a few comments about "don't you wish you went AEV", and the answer is no but yes.

I purchased AEV wheels for my truck about 2 years ago I think, during the height of covid. One of the wheels showed up damaged and my wheel guy said he wouldn't trust it to hold the bead. I called AEV, informed them of the situation and sent pictures. They got on the phone with me that day, and one overnighted, and I was riding with new wheels and tires shortly thereafter. They CS was absolutely fantastic. I didn't pay an extra dime out of pocket, they apologized for the issue, and made it right as good as I could have asked for honestly. I didn't even have to send the wheel back! (don't anyone go asking me for it, I was gonna turn it into something but ended up tossing it)

Furthermore, AEV has vastly better overall "brand experience", they get that it's an important part of the product and they spend the time and money on it.

While I think AEV makes a fantastic product (well, with the singular exception of their Ram suspension that everyone likely knows my feelings about) I think the Ram HD bumper just isn't quite as usable off road, and to be honest, I don't love the look except on 40s. It doesn't look bad by any means, but it was clearly designed for their flares as a package. That and the horrible gap between the lower "eyebrow" and the bumper drive me mad.

Past that, I also wanted additional clearance/approach angle, or at the very least didn't want to lose any. The AEV bumper maintains a lot of the factory look, with a winch. Which is great, but also means that you lose a bit of approach angle over OEM, and def over something like the Expo option. Plus I liked how the Expo had welded bull bars as an option.

Now, onto what's next.

At this point, I'm pretty miffed about the missed welds and poor powder coating. If the issue was just the freight damage, I may have said to cut refund me the price that it will cost to get it stripped and recoated locally, and perhaps a little extra for time. At this point, I'm annoyed with the welds because now not only do I need to have the bumper stripped, but I also need to have it welded, then recoated.

I'm still very interested in an expo one rear swing out bumper, as I think the latching mechanism is pretty brilliant. That said, we will obviously wait and see how they handle this. No one and no company is perfect, so how they continue to handle this will be a real sign both for myself and for others moving forward. Hopefully they own up and make it right.

One last image I forgot to upload. Here is one of the corners of the bumper. It would appear that they did not do any etching to the metal, so I'm not sure how long till most of the edges flake off. (not super in focus)
View attachment 56685

You’re putting a lot of confidence in this bumper not having a grille gap lol. Just teasing you. You have a sweet bumper in your hands it just needs a little finishing touch and it will be *chefs kiss*

 

[UglyViking]

You’re putting a lot of confidence in this bumper not having a grille gap lol. Just teasing you. You have a sweet bumper in your hands it just needs a little finishing touch and it will be *chefs kiss*

Why would you put that on me! geesh, this guy

 

[UglyViking]

Update
I was told via email Wednesday at 18:54 ET that CS would be meeting with upper management and the freight company on Friday.

I didn't hear anything on Thursday, as expected, but then didn't hear anything on Friday either. I waited until ~18:30 ET (16:30 MT) and gave them a call.

I decided to try a different number from their automated system this time in hopes of reaching someone, so I tried their "orders department". Sadly, that specific channel lead me directly to an automated dead end informing me that they can't do anything via the phone for orders and instead to email. It then rudely hung up on me…

So I tried again, this time for their product channel, I got the same automated mailbox I had gotten every time before, so I left a slightly annoyed voicemail.

I then followed up with another email stating my expectation to be called by 12:00 MT.

In case anyone was wondering, every passing hour the disparity between Expo One and AEV becomes more clear. As of this moment, I have only regret. I still don't know that I'd get the AEV bumper, but as of this moment, I'd be hard pressed to recommend Expo to anyone. Regardless of how awesome the product may or may not be, the fact that I have a $3500 bumper that's been sitting in my driveway since Tuesday and I haven't been able to talk to a single person, and have only received a single email in response, well it's gonna take a lot for them to come back.

I've read some stories on another expo forum about issues with them a few years back, and from the read it seemed like poor communication and growing pains, but years later and the same issues remain.

I'm not saying any of this to bad mouth them, but I'm not at all impressed with my current experience.

 

[Metternacht]

That Sucks. I was playing with the idea of their rear bumper with 2x swingouts but this will seriously play into my calculations. I had a similar experience with N-Fab and my steps. but that's for another time.

 

[UglyViking]

Update
I received an email today at 10:07 MT that informed me there was only a single person managing CS last week, and they would never ignore my calls. I was also told they had a meeting with upper management and was given the "the go ahead to file a claim!". It's unclear to me what this means in terms of actual outcome, and sadly, they also didn't inform me or the steps, timeline, or expected outcome of this claim.

They also stated (emphasis mine) "We appreciate your patience and respectful communication as we work to resolve this issue!" which irked me as just because I'm annoyed with their CS, does not mean I'm being in any way disrespectful.

Sadly, there was no additional information about the issues with the powercoat that were clearly not from shipping damage (the letters/numbers ghosted into the powder coating), nor did they give any indication about the difference in welds between the upper support brackets for the winch mount.

Either way, I called back an hour later when I got home, and was met with another voice mailbox. I left yet another message and followed up with an email.

As of this moment, I'm going to guess that they are going to try and ignore the QC issues with the bumper in hopes that freight will cover it (that's the only reason I can see them not addressing them, past pure negligence).

I'll keep the thread updated as I can.

 

[44Dan44]

Update
I received an email today at 10:07 MT that informed me there was only a single person managing CS last week, and they would never ignore my calls. I was also told they had a meeting with upper management and was given the "the go ahead to file a claim!". It's unclear to me what this means in terms of actual outcome, and sadly, they also didn't inform me or the steps, timeline, or expected outcome of this claim.

They also stated (emphasis mine) "We appreciate your patience and respectful communication as we work to resolve this issue!" which irked me as just because I'm annoyed with their CS, does not mean I'm being in any way disrespectful.

Sadly, there was no additional information about the issues with the powercoat that were clearly not from shipping damage (the letters/numbers ghosted into the powder coating), nor did they give any indication about the difference in welds between the upper support brackets for the winch mount.

Either way, I called back an hour later when I got home, and was met with another voice mailbox. I left yet another message and followed up with an email.

As of this moment, I'm going to guess that they are going to try and ignore the QC issues with the bumper in hopes that freight will cover it (that's the only reason I can see them not addressing them, past pure negligence).

I'll keep the thread updated as I can.

At what point do (you) consider doing a chargeback on the credit card? I think I'd be at that stage about now.

 

[buzzuti]

Interesting, I was going to detail a random email exchange I had with them last week but felt it to be just me bitching, where you have a legitimate issue here.

Don't need to be wined and dined by sales folk, i'm easy...
However, asking questions on fitment for a 2023 5500 got me a response "we haven't tried on a 2023 5500."
That was the response. That was it.
Which lead me to the obvious question when someone is curt with nil additional info, "have you installed it on years other than 2023?"

The response was, "we have not."
No more insight or explanation whatsoever.

If I was trying to make a sale.... I would lean into the conversation and have a dialogue...

Walked away from that convo, and right into your post here.
Lost a possible sale even despite what I read from your experience, their responses left me with no motivation to learn anything more.

They do, ironically, have a YT video on their all pro packaging process for bumpers. lol

Good luck, I hope all gets resolved.

 

[UglyViking]

At what point do (you) consider doing a chargeback on the credit card? I think I'd be at that stage about now.

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is going to be happening soon if I don't hear from them with some satisfactory answers in the next few days.

I decided to look up Terms of Sale on their website, and the first concern is that it's a huge TOS. Some interesting tidbits (emphasis mine):

• Expedition One components may have minor finish damage to powder coated or plated surfaces which may occur during shipping and is not covered under warranty. Damage to items as a result of the shipping process are eligible for a claim with the shipping company but MUST be documented at receiving the product with the shipping company. It is highly recommended that you open and inspect your packages for damage PRIOR to signing any delivery receipts. Damage should be noted on any accepted deliveries and digital photos taken. Damage must be reported immediately and photos provided within 5 business days.
  
  
• Attempts to resolve concerns regarding product delivered to the provided delivery location through threats, intimidations, chargebacks and/or disputes rather than the appropriate channels may void product support and warranty coverage. Expedition One requires a reasonable amount of time within standard business hours to respond to customer service and technical questions, particularly when resolving issues over long distances. Expedition One may seek legal recourse in the event of fraudulent activity associated with intimidation, slander, defamation, and theft.

These may be standard practices, however I couldn't find any other sites who's TOS indicate potential legal action being taken against their customers. I think it's well understood that if one attempts things like intimidation or theft, legal action may be taken against you, but that is true throughout life and seems unnecessary to list it on your website. Either way, I am in no way attempting any of the items they listed, and this thread is in no way an attempt to intimidate, slander, or defame Expedition One. Nor is it an attempt at theft/stealing from Expedition One. This thread is purely my personal experience of purchasing a bumper, and the product and process I've experienced thus far.

I really am hopeful that this turns around. The bumper looks amazing from a visual standpoint, and it's unfortunate how I feel I've been treated up to this point.

 

[UglyViking]

Update
I received an email from the CS person last night.

The email noted that the ghosted letters I was seeing was from lack of sanding on the bumper, and I was offered a refund for the powder coating ($230).

I also asked about what "filing a claim" means, and was told they are requesting financial assistance from the freight company regarding the damages caused to the bumper. They are going to be requesting financial reimbursement on my behalf to get the bumper sandblasted and recoated locally. I'm not sure how the freight company decides what the price of that is, but I'm guessing they call a few shops for the cheapest estimate and cut a check for that.

As for timeline, I was told anywhere from 1 week to 2 months, but generally less than 2 weeks. So, if it takes a week I'm bummed, but 2 months is out of the question I feel.

My favorite part of the response though was "Thank you for reporting this freight issue promptly and with photos as this helps us advocate for you!". To be clear, they aren't advocating for me at all, they are advocating for themselves. If they were advocating for me, they would cut me a check ASAP, apologize for the hassle, and then fight with the freight company to get themselves reimbursed.

I followed their instructions about stating damage and signing. Had these not been their instructions, I would have simply not signed, had them take it back and let Expo deal with it. I signed with the expectation that Expo would make it right, and perhaps they will but we will see how many teeth I have to continue to pull to make it right.

I was also told, again after continuing to ask the same question, that the missing welds are not structural. I followed up asking for confirmation in case I need to take up a warranty claim in the future. Want to make sure that language is as clear as possible.

Finally, they stated that they are still the only person in CS at the time, and they must have been on lunch when I called. It's kind of comical at this point, as I've called and left 5 voicemails with them, and even tried calling with my wifes phone to see if they were dodging my calls. (they may be, but they are also dodging my wifes phone as well)

My current expectation is that the freight financial assistance is functionally the most budget option available, and won't cover any real service. We shall see. If I don't hear back I'll be following up with them in a few days.

As of this moment, unless something takes a drastic turn, I can't recommend Expo One. Even if their product is the highest quality on the market, CS and support are important to me, at least a little, and I don't feel like they have done anything to make my situation right. I'll post up once this is fully resolved with my biggest annoyances, and recommendations in the event they ever see it. I also plan to post over on another adventure forum so that folks know what they are getting into.

Thanks for following alone. Now I settle in for what is likely to be a long wait.

 

[Metternacht]

That is really disappointing, Poor Customer service can doom an otherwise great product. I hope they step up and take care of you. Their product looks really good but I don't want to have to deal with this type of hassle for something I spend that much money on.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

At this point I’m waiting for them to somehow blame covid for this

 

[chas0218]

I have liked the Chassis Unlimited since I 1st saw it but the expedition looks real nice with the low pro bull bar. Personally I don't really want the pre-runner look so the low profile bullbar or nothing is nice. The ranch hand is proven to be durable but too farmer for me.

I've not seen any guys here running that front bumper, but I'm currently leaning towards it. If you do a search on the expo portal forums you'll find some posts about this bumper. It seems as if some of their early coatings weren't done very well by whatever company they contracted out to do it, and resulted in flaking, poor application, rust, etc. There were a few pages of back and forth between buyers and the owner/contact of the company hashing stuff out. It seems like Expedition one made a good attempt at fixing the issue, but not everyone was thrilled.

I know there have been some discussions about sensors not working in the rear due to spare tire, but it seems as if modern sensors are better suited than previous gen ones and seem to be ok, but it's also likely a case by case basis in the rear. I hadn't heard anything about sensors in the front struggling, but YMMV.

I wouldn't think it would be great for MPG, but neither is weight, lift, larger tires, etc. You've also got 4.10s judging from your sig, so MPG is prob already an issue with you. I wouldn't expect the bumper to really hurt much, maybe 0.5mpg at most, but who knows. I wouldn't think there would be any difference in MPG between this bumper and the AEV one, for what it's worth. You're slapping a bunch of stuff on the front of the truck, any differences won't be reproducible outside a lab setting.

On the plus side, Expedition One currently has an early black friday discount of 20-25%, so that's some extra savings.

For whatever it's worth, I'm currently actively debating between the AEV front bumper and the Expo 1. The price of the Expo 1 bumper as I've speced it, with discount, is $2727.98 + ship. Spec is XD bullbar hoops, and black powder coat. Regular hoops are $250 cheaper.

AEV front bumper with full guard is $4112. So almost $1400 more than the Expo 1.

I think the AEV front bumper looks awesome with 40s, but without the 40s I don't love the look personally. You get better approach angle with the Expo 1 bumper, but realistically that's not a concern for most.

There are other front bumpers out there as well, Chassis Unlimited makes some without the guard, and recently made one with a guard. Fab Fours also makes some, but since you mentioned proportions I won't even link them. Same goes for road armor and ranch hand.

I don't know if this rambling helps or not, but hopefully.

 

[Metternacht]

Update
I received an email from the CS person last night.

The email noted that the ghosted letters I was seeing was from lack of sanding on the bumper, and I was offered a refund for the powder coating ($230).

I also asked about what "filing a claim" means, and was told they are requesting financial assistance from the freight company regarding the damages caused to the bumper. They are going to be requesting financial reimbursement on my behalf to get the bumper sandblasted and recoated locally. I'm not sure how the freight company decides what the price of that is, but I'm guessing they call a few shops for the cheapest estimate and cut a check for that.

As for timeline, I was told anywhere from 1 week to 2 months, but generally less than 2 weeks. So, if it takes a week I'm bummed, but 2 months is out of the question I feel.

My favorite part of the response though was "Thank you for reporting this freight issue promptly and with photos as this helps us advocate for you!". To be clear, they aren't advocating for me at all, they are advocating for themselves. If they were advocating for me, they would cut me a check ASAP, apologize for the hassle, and then fight with the freight company to get themselves reimbursed.

I followed their instructions about stating damage and signing. Had these not been their instructions, I would have simply not signed, had them take it back and let Expo deal with it. I signed with the expectation that Expo would make it right, and perhaps they will but we will see how many teeth I have to continue to pull to make it right.

I was also told, again after continuing to ask the same question, that the missing welds are not structural. I followed up asking for confirmation in case I need to take up a warranty claim in the future. Want to make sure that language is as clear as possible.

Finally, they stated that they are still the only person in CS at the time, and they must have been on lunch when I called. It's kind of comical at this point, as I've called and left 5 voicemails with them, and even tried calling with my wifes phone to see if they were dodging my calls. (they may be, but they are also dodging my wifes phone as well)

My current expectation is that the freight financial assistance is functionally the most budget option available, and won't cover any real service. We shall see. If I don't hear back I'll be following up with them in a few days.

As of this moment, unless something takes a drastic turn, I can't recommend Expo One. Even if their product is the highest quality on the market, CS and support are important to me, at least a little, and I don't feel like they have done anything to make my situation right. I'll post up once this is fully resolved with my biggest annoyances, and recommendations in the event they ever see it. I also plan to post over on another adventure forum so that folks know what they are getting into.

Thanks for following alone. Now I settle in for what is likely to be a long wait.

did you ever get a resolution?

 

[UglyViking]

did you ever get a resolution?

I am waiting on the final piece of the resolution, and have been writing up a full post detailing the process I had to go through. I'm currently on a trailer trip with my other rig, so I won't be back around for a bit, at least to post.

 

[Metternacht]

Still curious as to how this worked out.