What's new
Ram Heavy Duty Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ditching the gas tax and charging per mile

oledirteh

Well-Known Member
Messages
450
Reaction score
815
Points
93
Location
Union Bridge MD

maryland is pushing this, but its also being considered in a ton of states.​


Ditching the gas tax and charging per mile; Maryland testing new way to fund transportation needs​


BALTIMORE — Faced with a $3.3 billion transportation budget shortfall, the Maryland Department of Transportation had to make tough funding choices. State leaders scrambled to balance the deficit by pausing certain improvement projects and raising registration fees. They’re also considering a new way of collecting revenue from drivers.

Earlier this year, MDOT, in partnership with The Eastern Transportation Coalition, launched a pilot program testing the mileage-based user fee (MBUF).


“So, it's pretty simple in concept. If you use the roads, you pay for the roads. You use the roads more, you pay for the roads more, so it's really creating that link between use and payment and getting away from the fuel tax as being the way we fund transportation,” said Trish Hendren, executive director for The Eastern Transportation Coalition (TETC).

As cars become more fuel efficient and drivers switch to electric vehicles, less gallons of fuel are being sold. In addition, the fuel tax rate in Maryland declined from 47 cents per gallon to 46.1 cents per gallon, due to an inflation adjustment. MDOT expects this to further impact the amount of fuel tax revenue generated adding that the fuel tax revenue is the “largest source of funding for transportation in Maryland, comprising nearly one-third of annual revenues to the Transportation Trust Fund. The Transportation Trust Fund funds the operation and maintenance of transit, road and bridge, port, and airport facilities across Maryland,” a MDOT spokesperson wrote in an email to WMAR-2 News Mallory Sofastaii.

“This is not a Maryland issue, this is a transportation issue that every state needs to really think about how we're going to close that gap,” said Hendren.

Hendren’s coalition of 19 states plus D.C. was awarded federal grant money to explore the feasibility of the mileage-based user fee. In Maryland, around 150 drivers participated in the pilot program that ended on May 31. Drivers had their mileage tracked through odometer readings, a plug-in device, vehicle reporting data, or a phone app.

Hendren said the cost to drivers is comparable to the state’s fuel tax, which she said averages around $27 per month.

One concern they’ve received is how the fee might impact rural commuters.

“Right now, rural communities are actually paying more than some of their urban counterparts in fuel tax. And you're thinking, why is that? It’s because a lot of those vehicles in rural communities, on average, are larger and a bit older. So right now, it’s not necessarily a fair situation. So, if we moved to a distance-based approach, what the data is showing us is that rural communities may pay less,” Hendren said.

The results of the pilot program are expected to be released in August.

Currently, four states have enacted legislation authorizing the collection of per-mile fees: Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Hawaii. These are voluntary programs for drivers with fuel-efficient and/or alternative fuel vehicles. In exchange for paying by the mile, they’re exempt from paying an annual registration surcharge on their vehicles.

Meanwhile, Maryland has increased its registration fees by 64 percent from $135 to $221 for two years and a 73 percent increase for heavier vehicles upping the two-year rate from $187 to $323.

EV drivers will eventually have to pay an annual surcharge between $100 to $125, most likely starting July 1, 2025.

“The challenge with a flat fee is really about fairness, and we need to have that discussion in the transportation field with the general public, with elected officials. So, somebody only drives, I don’t know, a thousand miles a year, versus someone who's driving 12,000 miles a year, but they're paying the same annual flat fee. Is that how we want to fund transportation?” asked Hendren.

She understands it's a challenging road ahead trying to navigate from a 100-year-old system, but she said her organization is focused on finding a fair and sustainable solution.

To see how much you’d pay under the mileage-based user fee model, TETC created an online calculator. Drivers input details about their car and how far they drive per month. It'll then show the estimated difference between the fuel tax and MBUF.
 
The gas tax IS a mileage tax. The more you drive the more you pay. It goes by weight too. Light cars use less gas heavy pickups use more. Heavy vehicles do more damage so they pay their fair share. As far as EV/hybrid yea charge them a flat rate or a mileage tax. Leave us other mofos alone lol.
 
i posted this in another forum and a lot of stuff has been brought up.

How is it tracked. cell phone, device in odb? if so, they have your location data. knowing Maryland they will take that opportunity to sell it off to a 3rd party which is what i think is a 4th violation.

How will truckers deal with this and report it for state taxes.

Maryland is looking at this model over fuel tax. and what we found is via the calculator the less mpg you get, the less you pay. aka 23mpg is the break even point. my truck doesnt show up in the list on the calc, so i put in 19mpg and it claims i save 8 bucks. however if i recall on the sticker for the truck its N/A so how would states calculate this.
 
i posted this in another forum and a lot of stuff has been brought up.

How is it tracked. cell phone, device in odb? if so, they have your location data. knowing Maryland they will take that opportunity to sell it off to a 3rd party which is what i think is a 4th violation.

How will truckers deal with this and report it for state taxes.

Maryland is looking at this model over fuel tax. and what we found is via the calculator the less mpg you get, the less you pay. aka 23mpg is the break even point. my truck doesnt show up in the list on the calc, so i put in 19mpg and it claims i save 8 bucks. however if i recall on the sticker for the truck its N/A so how would states calculate this.
How to track it is definitely the big question.
Phone in OBD? Nope. What if I don't have a phone, it's dead, or I simply don't plug it in. Are they going to mandate that you have to own a phone, and carry it with you when you drive? Plus as you mentioned, the whole tracking concern. Not going to work.
Self reporting? People will just lie about how many miles they drive.
Annual/State inspection? Who's to say all those miles were in that state.
Having the car/truck report miles via web service? Won't work on old cars, and that's what they're allegedly trying to accommodate with this (urban/rural reference).

Funny you mentioned truckers. They're already running Electronic logs (ELD) which are tired to the vehicle's computer (*mfg 2000 or newer). These log miles and location (among other things) so moving state to state is easy to track, as well as the miles driven in that sate. The logs can be sent via web services to DOT inspectors, which could obviously be adapted to allow data to be sent to the department of taxation. This seems like the only viable option.
That said, these are not cheap systems to install and of course we're back to the older vehicle issue again. If they tried to make them a thing for cars, who pays to have these installed? I'm sure there'd also be outcry about location being tracked all the time. And, how do they ensure compliance? Create a position to follow-up on it, thus creating an expense for the state (wage and health care) likely offsetting any benefit to the state for this system over the fuel tax. I don't see these working out either

It's an interesting enough idea, but I doubt it could be done effectively.
Besides, they mention electric vehicles not paying fuel tax. That's a bit of a lie. Electric vehicles pay a HUGE registration fee over their gas counterparts with the justification being that they're not paying the fuel tax. So the state is still getting money from them regardless of how many miles they drive. Sure it's not a "fuel" tax but they're still paying into roadwork funds.
 
i posted this in another forum and a lot of stuff has been brought up.

How is it tracked. cell phone, device in odb? if so, they have your location data. knowing Maryland they will take that opportunity to sell it off to a 3rd party which is what i think is a 4th violation.

How will truckers deal with this and report it for state taxes.

Maryland is looking at this model over fuel tax. and what we found is via the calculator the less mpg you get, the less you pay. aka 23mpg is the break even point. my truck doesnt show up in the list on the calc, so i put in 19mpg and it claims i save 8 bucks. however if i recall on the sticker for the truck its N/A so how would states calculate this.
It's quite the rabbit hole to go down and gets into all kinds of conspiracies and allegations. You can expect the government will be honest about the end goal - more of your money.

Government currently exempts certain vehicles from the fuel numbers on the window stickers. It's not like they can't change that rule or a state creates its own table of mileages. Same as some states do for valuations when obtaining license plates.

Do a little research and you will find that auto manufacturers are already collecting data on vehicles and selling same to third parties.

I may not be paying the folks at RAM for connected services but they still know exactly where my truck is, locked or unlocked, mileage, amount of fuel, if a check engine lamp or low fuel fuel/DEF alert is illuminated, along with a number of other things.

Truckers are already required to report their mileage. Many have an electronic babysitter that keeps track of it via the ELD. Unless you stay intrastate, Interstate driver's use IFTA for mileage and fuel taxes.
 
How to track it is definitely the big question.
Phone in OBD? Nope. What if I don't have a phone, it's dead, or I simply don't plug it in. Are they going to mandate that you have to own a phone, and carry it with you when you drive? Plus as you mentioned, the whole tracking concern. Not going to work.
Self reporting? People will just lie about how many miles they drive.
Annual/State inspection? Who's to say all those miles were in that state.
Having the car/truck report miles via web service? Won't work on old cars, and that's what they're allegedly trying to accommodate with this (urban/rural reference).

Funny you mentioned truckers. They're already running Electronic logs (ELD) which are tired to the vehicle's computer (*mfg 2000 or newer). These log miles and location (among other things) so moving state to state is easy to track, as well as the miles driven in that sate. The logs can be sent via web services to DOT inspectors, which could obviously be adapted to allow data to be sent to the department of taxation. This seems like the only viable option.
That said, these are not cheap systems to install and of course we're back to the older vehicle issue again. If they tried to make them a thing for cars, who pays to have these installed? I'm sure there'd also be outcry about location being tracked all the time. And, how do they ensure compliance? Create a position to follow-up on it, thus creating an expense for the state (wage and health care) likely offsetting any benefit to the state for this system over the fuel tax. I don't see these working out either

It's an interesting enough idea, but I doubt it could be done effectively.
Besides, they mention electric vehicles not paying fuel tax. That's a bit of a lie. Electric vehicles pay a HUGE registration fee over their gas counterparts with the justification being that they're not paying the fuel tax. So the state is still getting money from them regardless of how many miles they drive. Sure it's not a "fuel" tax but they're still paying into roadwork funds.
maryland ev registration is i believe 125 for 2 years now. My truck is 323
 
The more you know:

I love how they call it an EV registration "penalty". $200 extra every year in Ohio for an electric vehicle. Normal registration is $36 - $66 (plus taxes and fees). Even at an average $50 registration fee, the EV owner pays 400% more on top of that $50 because they're not paying fuel tax on the road.
 
Using the example of my 97 XJ in the calculator, I would save money and the state would make less. I don't think that solves their very large money problem, lol
 
All I know if this **** passes in my state I’ll be buying a old vehicle with a true speedometer cable :p
 
the calculator breaks even at 23mpg. the less mpg you have, the less you pay, the better you get, the more you pay. regardless of the milage.

If this is added on top of fuel tax, its a problem. if fuel tax goes away, then i dont care. however since 2500's and up all have N/A from epa or what ever, i dont know where they will classify us. we will prob be in a new class and get doubled up on in tax's some how.
 
$5,000 credit here in Colorado. Annual $51 upcharge. Everybody's got a damn Tesla.

Our registration and vehicle taxes are egregious. My first year in 2020 was $1726. This last reg was $512. I also had to cough up $78 for a diesel emissions test and there's a penalty "fee" for diesel.
 
$5,000 credit here in Colorado. Annual $51 upcharge. Everybody's got a damn Tesla.

Our registration and vehicle taxes are egregious. My first year in 2020 was $1726. This last reg was $512. I also had to cough up $78 for a diesel emissions test and there's a penalty "fee" for diesel.

thank god i dont have to do diesel emission's. i was watching a video on cali and their diesel stuff, talk about insane and out of control.
 
It's quite the rabbit hole to go down and gets into all kinds of conspiracies and allegations. You can expect the government will be honest about the end goal - more of your money.

Government currently exempts certain vehicles from the fuel numbers on the window stickers. It's not like they can't change that rule or a state creates its own table of mileages. Same as some states do for valuations when obtaining license plates.

Do a little research and you will find that auto manufacturers are already collecting data on vehicles and selling same to third parties.

I may not be paying the folks at RAM for connected services but they still know exactly where my truck is, locked or unlocked, mileage, amount of fuel, if a check engine lamp or low fuel fuel/DEF alert is illuminated, along with a number of other things.

Truckers are already required to report their mileage. Many have an electronic babysitter that keeps track of it via the ELD. Unless you stay intrastate, Interstate driver's use IFTA for mileage and fuel taxes.
Biden’s admin already passed a new law requiring all future new vehicles to have remote kill switches in them. So that will give them an easy access point to get into a vehicles brain so they can monitor mileage. And the way our government operates these days, they could easily mandate that all older non-EV vehicles must get a kill switch installed as well.
 
Biden’s admin already passed a new law requiring all future new vehicles to have remote kill switches in them. So that will give them an easy access point to get into a vehicles brain so they can monitor mileage. And the way our government operates these days, they could easily mandate that all older non-EV vehicles must get a kill switch installed as well.
Your information is incorrect.
 
Here’s the link to the bill that was introduced in December of last year to eliminate it.

Yeah, I’ve seen that one.

Here’s the actual law that one is purporting to be against, which makes no mention of kill switches.


Here’s a Snopes article talking about it.

 
You should all read PUBLIC LAW 117–58—NOV. 15, 2021 signed by Biden in 2021.

There's part truths in everyone's claims. The regs do require enactment of vehicle "controls," more specifically "prevention," but I've seen no evidence of remote kill switch in the bill.

That said, the mere presence of the technology and telematics does expose it to abuse by automakers and alphabet agencies.
 
Last edited:
You should all read PUBLIC LAW 117–58—NOV. 15, 2021 signed by Biden in 2021.

There's part truths in everyone's claims. The regs do require enactment of vehicle "controls," more specifically "prevention," but I've seen no evidence of remote kill switch in the bill.

That said, the mere presence of the technology and telematics doe expose it to abuse by automakers and alphabet agencies.
There you go. Thats the actual one I was looking for.

Agreed, it does call for controls, but it very specifically does not mention kill switches.

Of course, all of our trucks already have a kill switch built in as part of the telematics and theft prevention systems. Ram can shut your truck off anytime they want, just like OnStar has been able to do for 20+ years.

The reality of the situation is that 99.999% of people, no matter their opinion on the government or any other organization, are not interesting enough for anyone to care about what they do or to want to control their vehicle. If you’re involved in something that’s going to make you “interesting”, you know it already, and probably aren’t spending your time posting on or reading truck forums.
 
Back
Top