CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[exiledinaz]

Does anybody know if a CP4 explodes today, does the dealer still replace it with a CP4 or has FCA come up with a replacement from the new 2021 CP3? I can't imagine they would keep on installing CP4's when they don't put them on the 21 model year. Any RAM/Cummins mechanics on here?

 

[UglyViking]

Does anybody know if a CP4 explodes today, does the dealer still replace it with a CP4 or has FCA come up with a replacement from the new 2021 CP3? I can't imagine they would keep on installing CP4's when they don't put them on the 21 model year. Any RAM/Cummins mechanics on here?

Until there is word from FCA they will continue swapping CP4s with CP4s. There is no direction otherwise.

 

[Bocephus]

@RamCares please make a statement. Even if it’s just where getting close to releasing the service solution

 

[diablo82]

@RamCares please make a statement. Even if it’s just where getting close to releasing the service solution

I think they would rather keep their mouth shut at this time since everytime they make a statement there are uproar from here in the group.

 

[Bocephus]

There 51 pages, personally I’d just get some relief there still working on something and not say a word

 

[Allamuchy_Joe]

I have not posted to this thread. I am the owner a very nice 2019 Cummins equipped Ram 3500. I love the way it drives, tows and operates. I want to trust this truck to take my family in my RV from the east coast to Utah this fall.
I have been broken down on side of a highway in an older truck with a travel trailer years ago -- it is not fun and quite dangerous to have to wait hours on the side of a highway for a tow. Honestly, I bought this very expensive truck new because I wanted to have a reasonable expectation that a new Ram HD truck would be reliable and safe. Unfortunately, my Ram has what is essentially a bad heart and you never know when the truck is going to have a heart attack.
Yeah I get it @RamCares, at only 21,000 miles it is under warranty. But knowing I can get it fixed doesn't quell the stress and fear for my family's safety of being stuck on the side of an interstate while tractor trailers are wizzing by. Another thing that disturbs me is that my family could be stranded in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end waiting for a "warranty repair" to be performed. I bought this truck to have a reasonable expectation of reliability and in that I think Ram has failed all of 2019-2020 owners with this known CP4 issue.
I hope FCA does the right thing and gives us another option other than these two choices: 1) accept a CP4 failure and hope it happens at a convenient non-dangerous circumstance or 2) install a more reliable aftermarket pump for peace of mind that voids our warranty.

 

[KBob]

I have not posted to this thread. I am the owner a very nice 2019 Cummins equipped Ram 3500. I love the way it drives, tows and operates. I want to trust this truck to take my family in my RV from the east coast to Utah this fall.
I have been broken down on side of a highway in an older truck with a travel trailer years ago -- it is not fun and quite dangerous to have to wait hours on the side of a highway for a tow. Honestly, I bought this very expensive truck new because I wanted to have a reasonable expectation that a new Ram HD truck would be reliable and safe. Unfortunately, my Ram has what is essentially a bad heart and you never know when the truck is going to have a heart attack.
Yeah I get it @RamCares, at only 21,000 miles it is under warranty. But knowing I can get it fixed doesn't quell the stress and fear for my family's safety of being stuck on the side of an interstate while tractor trailers are wizzing by. Another thing that disturbs me is that my family could be stranded in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end waiting for a "warranty repair" to be performed. I bought this truck to have a reasonable expectation of reliability and in that I think Ram has failed all of 2019-2020 owners with this known CP4 issue.
I hope FCA does the right thing and gives us another option other than these two choices: 1) accept a CP4 failure and hope it happens at a convenient non-dangerous circumstance or 2) install a more reliable aftermarket pump for peace of mind that voids our warranty.

I keep thinking I've seen other "safety recalls" for "sudden loss of power" @RamCares, when a pump lets go, there IS a sudden loss of power. A driver may or may Not be able to find neutral, and get pulled over safely. If there's no shoulder on a two lane, and you're rocking 60' of rig, the consequences could be catastrophic on a blind curve or, the back side of a hill.

 

[MikeXM]

I keep thinking I've seen other "safety recalls" for "sudden loss of power" @RamCares, when a pump lets go, there IS a sudden loss of power. A driver may or may Not be able to find neutral, and get pulled over safely. If there's no shoulder on a two lane, and you're rocking 60' of rig, the consequences could be catastrophic on a blind curve or, the back side of a hill.

I'm more scared of losing the power steering than losing the actual motor if the CP4 goes off.
I lost my power steering once at highway speed while towing. Got the scare of my life with the upcoming curve which I finally barely made it. I ended up running on the shoulder, inches from the ditch. If the curve had been just half a degree more pronounced, it would had ended very badly.
Have you ever try to turn those trucks without power steering?

 

[Carpenterhow]

I keep thinking I've seen other "safety recalls" for "sudden loss of power" @RamCares, when a pump lets go, there IS a sudden loss of power. A driver may or may Not be able to find neutral, and get pulled over safely. If there's no shoulder on a two lane, and you're rocking 60' of rig, the consequences could be catastrophic on a blind curve or, the back side of a hill.

Good point!

 

[Hah0910]

you lose your power brakes also fyi.

 

[MikeXM]

you lose your power brakes also fyi.

That's also true. But I think it's easier to brace yourself on the steering to push on the brakes than to try to steer. Never tried with this truck but you can do it with a car.

Anyway, loosing the CP4 instantly transform your truck into a freight train without rails into traffic. Good luck.

 

[Xflight29]

I'm blown away that this even has to be discussed to this point. This should not even be a discussion for less than a year old truck. I cant believe that Ram has not stepped up and make this right. And this wait until end of July is bull S____ to say the least. I'm always afraid to sign on to this form to read about someone dead or injured because of this. Its been over two years for Ram to make this right.

 

[camojimmy]

I'm blown away that this even has to be discussed to this point. This should not even be a discussion for less than a year old truck. I cant believe that Ram has not stepped up and make this right. And this wait until end of July is bull S____ to say the least. I'm always afraid to sign on to this form to read about someone dead or injured because of this. Its been over two years for Ram to make this right.

I agree. @RamCares it's time for some answers. It's well over due

 

[exiledinaz]

That's also true. But I think it's easier to brace yourself on the steering to push on the brakes than to try to steer. Never tried with this truck but you can do it with a car.

Anyway, loosing the CP4 instantly transform your truck into a freight train without rails into traffic. Good luck.

I have 12300 miles on my 2020. Taking my first long trip from Phoenix to Salmon, Id in July. I'm going to have to do a dry run on shutting the motor down WITHOUT the 17,500 RV behind me to see how it feels. Wonder if the trailer brakes would still work as the power system should still be on I guess?

 

[diablo82]

I have 12300 miles on my 2020. Taking my first long trip from Phoenix to Salmon, Id in July. I'm going to have to do a dry run on shutting the motor down WITHOUT the 17,500 RV behind me to see how it feels. Wonder if the trailer brakes would still work as the power system should still be on I guess?

I don't think the truck will allow you to shut it down without the gear in P or 0 mph.

 

[exiledinaz]

I don't think the truck will allow you to shut it down without the gear in P or 0 mph.

Interesting. Thats sounds about right. I guess in N rolling? I'll try it and see .

 

[MikeXM]

I have 12300 miles on my 2020. Taking my first long trip from Phoenix to Salmon, Id in July. I'm going to have to do a dry run on shutting the motor down WITHOUT the 17,500 RV behind me to see how it feels. Wonder if the trailer brakes would still work as the power system should still be on I guess?

You don't need to be rolling to see what it does... just try to turn your steering while the motor is off (and while steering not in a locked position). It is that hard. You will feel like something is going to break (it's not ). At 0mph, tires friction on ground makes it almost impossible to turn. While rolling, the tires will allow changes in direction, but just don't expect to be a quick thing. You are literally limited by your own force.

To the admins: I know this is not strictly on topic, but it is something that people need to know about what happens when the CP4 fails. It is not limited to damages to your motor. It puts you and your passengers in a very dangerous situation.

 

[kobra]

... sorry about carrying on this tangent a bit more, but just have to jump in with an important FYI on braking with engine out... the braking system in our pickups is a vacuum over hydraulic, which means that immediately after an engine off, you still have full vacuum pressure in the system.

How does that relate to an emergency situation? Immediately after engine out, pick a target on the side of the road, then remember you have ONE shot at using your brakes with full pressure. As long as you don't ease up on your brakes they will stay applied with the pressure you've applied, just like they always do. So, don't touch the brakes, pick your spot, start manoeuvring over to it, then apply moderate brake pressure that will allow you to stop in your targeted area. DON'T PUMP THE BRAKES!!! Think about applying the pressure you need and hold it there. If you let up even a bit, you won't get that pressure back later. Press and hold until coming to a complete stop will be just as easy as if the engine were still running. (and yes the trailer brakes are electric, so even if you did it wrong and lost power assist on your pickup, you can manually add trailer brakes)

The worst/wrong thing to do is to immediately stab the brakes then letup while you check around to find your targeted stop area; yet that is often the first instinct. You will have likely done little to bleed off speed at that point, but you will have used up most, if not all, of your vacuum pressure boost, so that when you really do want to slow to a stop you will be standing on a brick with very little stopping force.

If it sounds like I've been there, done that, it's because I have, several times, when I was young and in the trucking business. Our fleet ran the gamut from 18-30 wheelers with diesel and air brakes, but also much less reliable 3 tons with gas and hydraulic brakes. Trucks back in the 80s were not built nearly as reliably as they are now, and some of our fleet were from the 60s and 70s. Engine out happened for lots of reasons, including overheating, throwing a rod or piston, fuel vapor locks, etc. We lived through it. I will admit though that all of the commercial trucks have a big advantage of steering without power - the wheels are much larger, they are in a more vertical position, and the turning ratios are typically much larger so the leverage of the wheel to tires is much greater.

If you didn't already think about the vacuum / hydraulic braking system design and how to properly use in an engine out emergency, I encourage you remember it, as it might save your life. Whether CP4 related or other, engines and drivetrains do suddenly stop once in awhile, so good to think about in advance as to how you will handle such an emergency.

hth,
Brad

 

[Hah0910]

... sorry about carrying on this tangent a bit more, but just have to jump in with an important FYI on braking with engine out... the braking system in our pickups is a vacuum over hydraulic, which means that immediately after an engine off, you still have full vacuum pressure in the system.

How does that relate to an emergency situation? Immediately after engine out, pick a target on the side of the road, then remember you have ONE shot at using your brakes with full pressure. As long as you don't ease up on your brakes they will stay applied with the pressure you've applied, just like they always do. So, don't touch the brakes, pick your spot, start manoeuvring over to it, then apply moderate brake pressure that will allow you to stop in your targeted area. DON'T PUMP THE BRAKES!!! Think about applying the pressure you need and hold it there. If you let up even a bit, you won't get that pressure back later. Press and hold until coming to a complete stop will be just as easy as if the engine were still running. (and yes the trailer brakes are electric, so even if you did it wrong and lost power assist on your pickup, you can manually add trailer brakes)

The worst/wrong thing to do is to immediately stab the brakes then letup while you check around to find your targeted stop area; yet that is often the first instinct. You will have likely done little to bleed off speed at that point, but you will have used up most, if not all, of your vacuum pressure boost, so that when you really do want to slow to a stop you will be standing on a brick with very little stopping force.

If it sounds like I've been there, done that, it's because I have, several times, when I was young and in the trucking business. Our fleet ran the gamut from 18-30 wheelers with diesel and air brakes, but also much less reliable 3 tons with gas and hydraulic brakes. Trucks back in the 80s were not built nearly as reliably as they are now, and some of our fleet were from the 60s and 70s. Engine out happened for lots of reasons, including overheating, throwing a rod or piston, fuel vapor locks, etc. We lived through it. I will admit though that all of the commercial trucks have a big advantage of steering without power - the wheels are much larger, they are in a more vertical position, and the turning ratios are typically much larger so the leverage of the wheel to tires is much greater.

If you didn't already think about the vacuum / hydraulic braking system design and how to properly use in an engine out emergency, I encourage you remember it, as it might save your life. Whether CP4 related or other, engines and drivetrains do suddenly stop once in awhile, so good to think about in advance as to how you will handle such an emergency.

hth,
Brad

not stepping on anyone's toes but I dont think this info is correct.. In my experience hydra boost power assist brakes like found on the hd diesel pickups 3/4 ton up is solely ran from the pressure from the power steering pump.
vacuum over hyd systems are 1/2 ton pickup and down vehicles or gas powered vehicles

 

[Brutal_HO]

... sorry about carrying on this tangent a bit more, but just have to jump in with an important FYI on braking with engine out... the braking system in our pickups is a vacuum over hydraulic, which means that immediately after an engine off, you still have full vacuum pressure in the system.

How does that relate to an emergency situation? Immediately after engine out, pick a target on the side of the road, then remember you have ONE shot at using your brakes with full pressure. As long as you don't ease up on your brakes they will stay applied with the pressure you've applied, just like they always do. So, don't touch the brakes, pick your spot, start manoeuvring over to it, then apply moderate brake pressure that will allow you to stop in your targeted area. DON'T PUMP THE BRAKES!!! Think about applying the pressure you need and hold it there. If you let up even a bit, you won't get that pressure back later. Press and hold until coming to a complete stop will be just as easy as if the engine were still running. (and yes the trailer brakes are electric, so even if you did it wrong and lost power assist on your pickup, you can manually add trailer brakes)

The worst/wrong thing to do is to immediately stab the brakes then letup while you check around to find your targeted stop area; yet that is often the first instinct. You will have likely done little to bleed off speed at that point, but you will have used up most, if not all, of your vacuum pressure boost, so that when you really do want to slow to a stop you will be standing on a brick with very little stopping force.

If it sounds like I've been there, done that, it's because I have, several times, when I was young and in the trucking business. Our fleet ran the gamut from 18-30 wheelers with diesel and air brakes, but also much less reliable 3 tons with gas and hydraulic brakes. Trucks back in the 80s were not built nearly as reliably as they are now, and some of our fleet were from the 60s and 70s. Engine out happened for lots of reasons, including overheating, throwing a rod or piston, fuel vapor locks, etc. We lived through it. I will admit though that all of the commercial trucks have a big advantage of steering without power - the wheels are much larger, they are in a more vertical position, and the turning ratios are typically much larger so the leverage of the wheel to tires is much greater.

If you didn't already think about the vacuum / hydraulic braking system design and how to properly use in an engine out emergency, I encourage you remember it, as it might save your life. Whether CP4 related or other, engines and drivetrains do suddenly stop once in awhile, so good to think about in advance as to how you will handle such an emergency.

hth,
Brad

First, where is said vacuum coming from on a (current) diesel engine? There's no vacuum pump on these new trucks that I'm aware of. The braking is hydro-boost and gets it's hydro power from the power steering pump.

No offense, but your information is inaccurate so your safety recommendations carry little weight.

Truth is, the accumulator in the hydroboost assembly is supposed to hold enough pressure for two full emergency stops.

Second. This thread has gone so far off the rails as related to TSB and RECALL aspects it was intended to be it's now just one giant crapshow.