CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

[exiledinaz]

I would imagine if they were going to the 21 pump they may change the engine with an engine with the provisions for the new pump already installed IE the timing gear case…. So that they dont have techs doing in frame engine tear downs to swap the timing case unless they do develop an adapter…. Its easier to R/R engine and send it out than having an in frame tear down to pull the cam.

Or have Bosch design a CP3 reliable type pump to bolt right in place of the CP4...Can't imagine them putting CP4's back on and basically having the same problems reoccur.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Or have Bosch design a CP3 reliable type pump to bolt right in place of the CP4...Can't imagine them putting CP4's back on and basically having the same problems reoccur.

It wont be a CP4 and paying Bosch for a special run of pumps would be far to expensive and take far to long to have done when they already have a good new pump design that just needs a timing case swap to run it

 

[Brutal_HO]

We've gone full circle back to the most sensible option that was discussed when this all started.

Change the timing case and pump and one fuel line. Flash the software and done.

The question that remains is, does Cummins/FCA trust dealer diesel techs to do these right, particularly with the number of trucks involved?

It goes without saying that until we start getting details it's all just speculation on our part.

 

[Dwilly]

I'm absolutely stunned anything is happening at all. I guess I'll eat crow on this one.

 

[Great White North Eh]

Yup me to …..chewing on my hat as we speak.

 

[exiledinaz]

It wont be a CP4 and paying Bosch for a special run of pumps would be far to expensive and take far to long to have done when they already have a good new pump design that just needs a timing case swap to run it

True. I suppose it would be cheaper to swap out the timing cover to allow the 2021+ pump to install.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

We've gone full circle back to the most sensible option that was discussed when this all started.

Change the timing case and pump and one fuel line. Flash the software and done.

The question that remains is, does Cummins/FCA trust dealer diesel techs to do these right, particularly with the number of trucks involved?

It goes without saying that until we start getting details it's all just speculation on our part.

Yes its absolutely speculation but i prefer to be optimistic so i can be let down harder lol. I have my doubts these dealer techs will be allowed to tear in to these engines that deep on a large scale recall as that could lead to a large amount of other issues when they are trying to Race the clock to beat the flat rate time also with the lack of a tapit cover it would be a huge job dealing with the lifters and cam removal

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

True. I suppose it would be cheaper to swap out the timing cover to allow the 2021+ pump to install.

Im thinking it will be an engine swap and the cores sent to cummins id rather that than someone racing the clock to teardown my engine and replace the timing case

 

[UglyViking]

Im thinking it will be an engine swap and the cores sent to cummins id rather that than someone racing the clock to teardown my engine and replace the timing case

How many hours is an engine swap though? Like realistically if they do that they are gonna have to do almost as much work. I do think there is a chance they will engine swap some that have enough debris, if only to prevent future issues with warranty claim. I'm thinking about checking the screen for metal before I take it in, that way I can at least document it if it ever becomes an issue.

On the one hand I really don't want a dealer tech racing the clock on my engine rebuild, on the other hand I'm worried that a replacement is going to be a rebuilt engine, which is/was my same concern about injector replacement.

It will be interesting to see what happens at this point. I think there are a multitude of "realistic" options, but the one that seems most likely to me is that FCA will have figured out a pretty cheap and easy way to mount the CP3 where the CP4 used to sit, with some sort of adapter like S&S and ii used.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

How many hours is an engine swap though? Like realistically if they do that they are gonna have to do almost as much work. I do think there is a chance they will engine swap some that have enough debris, if only to prevent future issues with warranty claim. I'm thinking about checking the screen for metal before I take it in, that way I can at least document it if it ever becomes an issue.

On the one hand I really don't want a dealer tech racing the clock on my engine rebuild, on the other hand I'm worried that a replacement is going to be a rebuilt engine, which is/was my same concern about injector replacement.

It will be interesting to see what happens at this point. I think there are a multitude of "realistic" options, but the one that seems most likely to me is that FCA will have figured out a pretty cheap and easy way to mount the CP3 where the CP4 used to sit, with some sort of adapter like S&S and ii used.

Engine swap is 1/2 the time easy if the replacement is a cummins factory rebuild i have no issue they are great at what they do

 

[Dwilly]

All the Ford Bozos licking their chops in anticipation as well? A precedent is now set.

 

[UglyViking]

All the Ford Bozos licking their chops in anticipation as well? A precedent is now set.

It's not the same, I'd be very surprised if this has any effect on Ford/GM vehicles.

For one, Ford did, and still does, use the CP4, and has for longer than Ram. While there were some early reports about failures they seem to be a much lower rate than Ram and I hadn't heard much about them on the Ford side before I bought my Ram.

GM may have had issues, but again doesn't seem to be at the same rate as Ram. Additionally, they switched over to Denso after the introduction of the L5P, so it's much easier to argue that the pump change was due, at least in part, to the new engine.

It is possibly that Ford and GM are both forced to do recalls, but Ram doing this recall doesn't really set precedent for a number of reasons.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

It's not the same, I'd be very surprised if this has any effect on Ford/GM vehicles.

For one, Ford did, and still does, use the CP4, and has for longer than Ram. While there were some early reports about failures they seem to be a much lower rate than Ram and I hadn't heard much about them on the Ford side before I bought my Ram.

GM may have had issues, but again doesn't seem to be at the same rate as Ram. Additionally, they switched over to Denso after the introduction of the L5P, so it's much easier to argue that the pump change was due, at least in part, to the new engine.

It is possibly that Ford and GM are both forced to do recalls, but Ram doing this recall doesn't really set precedent for a number of reasons.

They tried going after ford and ford just lawyered up i think they are still fighting it

 

[flan]

If these motors are like the earlier b series timing case removal requires a oil pan gasket too. I’m not sure the pan can be dropped without trans removal or jacking the engine way out of its mounts. Unless they hack it and piece one in with some RTV just at the front!

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

If these motors are like the earlier b series timing case removal requires a oil pan gasket too. I’m not sure the pan can be dropped without trans removal or jacking the engine way out of its mounts. Unless they hack it and piece one in with some RTV just at the front!

Good call i forgot about the pan

 

[Wileykid]

Pull the engine, do the fix, and put it back in? Don't think so. Aftermarket has a proven method, with an adapter plate. Cheap, a lot less time involved (3-4 hours?), and no additional expertise needed.

One possibility is for RAM to train and use select mechanics, including some from Cummins, and set up select dealerships that will only handle the recall. That would control any issues on ability, and all parts funnel to those dealerships. Almost production line like, and would speed up the actual fix.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Pull the engine, do the fix, and put it back in? Don't think so. Aftermarket has a proven method, with an adapter plate. Cheap, a lot less time involved (3-4 hours?), and no additional expertise needed.

One possibility is for RAM to train and use select mechanics, including some from Cummins, and set up select dealerships that will only handle the recall. That would control any issues on ability, and all parts funnel to those dealerships. Almost production line like, and would speed up the actual fix.

Aftermarket has not been proven and is not FCA approved… if they are pulling the engine it would be to put an engine in thats already buttoned up they cant run an adapter plate on the new pump the 21-22s use as its not designed to work that way like the Ind injection and S&S was designed to do

 

[Wileykid]

Aftermarket has not been proven and is not FCA approved… if they are pulling the engine it would be to put an engine in thats already buttoned up they cant run an adapter plate on the new pump the 21-22s use as its not designed to work that way like the Ind injection and S&S was designed to do

I just don't see them plugging just any engine in, that is not your own. Who is going to accept some other engine (that is not a complete rebuilt) that could have over 100K miles to replace yours that at the time may have 5K miles on it. I didn't buy a $70K (at the time) truck to have a possible high mileage engine put into it. Yes, I do understand the mileage capability of diesels, but if they wanted to do that, the lawyers are going to be a bit busy with people going after RAM on resale/value issues, because you are now getting into diminished value, perceived or not. I don't see the feds allowing that.

Minor point, is all the paperwork to switch around the engine/VIN numbers.

Like has been said again, and again here, we are all chasing our tails, and in a month we should find out what they are going to do.

 

[JHeat2500]

Something tells me FCA isn't going to swap in a fresh $20k+ engine to save a few hours of labor. If it's already damaged due to a HPFP failure sure, but replacing two years worth of CTDs on the road makes no sense to me.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Something tells me FCA isn't going to swap in a fresh $20k+ engine to save a few hours of labor. If it's already damaged due to a HPFP failure sure, but replacing two years worth of CTDs on the road makes no sense to me.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

The fuel system is the same bill and the engine with no fuel system is not 20k….