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Considerations for 1500/2500 and gas/diesel

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jamesL

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Hi all,

I know this topic has been heavily discussed in other threads, but I have been scouring discussion threads for months and haven't been able to come to a consensus on the best truck for my personal situation. I am pretty set on getting a Ram, but I am still torn between 1500 and 2500, and then between gas and diesel. I am hoping to get either some recommendations or at least advice on what considerations are most important given my situation.

Here's my situation: Family of 4, including two young kids. One large dog. We live at 7,000 feet in Utah. I commute 60 miles 2-3x per week. We have a ~3k lb camper trailer that we tow 100-500 miles about twice a month from March through October. Each year I'll probably do about 10k highway commuting miles, maybe 2k in town miles, and maybe about 6k towing miles. When we tow, we generally dispersed camp, which usually involves some fairly rugged forest service or desert dirt roads.

So in short, I am looking for a daily driver that I can also tow a relatively lightweight trailer with, including some longer road trips, almost all of which will be between 5k-10k feet elevation. Given the relatively low trailer weight, I have been thinking gas, but the MPG bump in diesel is very tempting. Also, given the elevation, the turbo in the diesel may be nice. And though I think 1500 may be plenty truck for me, I do like the look of the 2500s, and we may eventually get a slightly heavier trailer. Also looking at possibly doing an AEV conversion if I can get the money to work.

I would love to hear thoughts on 1500/2500, and gas/diesel, or at least what factors I should be focused on, given my use case. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
Wow. So many variables.

In my opinion, you'll be fine with any of the available listed options. The biggest factor to me would be to look at how big you may go with the next trailer and buy a truck that has the available payload to accommodate.
 
I have towed a 5k ultra lite with four different 1/2 ton trucks. They all towed it with ease. I live in north GA but not at the elevations you mentioned. It is something like 1250.

I currently have a 3500 Dually with the diesel. I wanted this truck because I want a larger RV and I want more payload. Payload is the biggest factor for me in a 1/2 ton vs 3/4 or 1 ton comparison.

The Ram 2500 with the diesel sacrifices some payload. This will limit your towing capacity with the trailer weight and family of four. If your plans are to get a slight heavier travel trailer I think you will be ok on payload. But if you want something significantly heavier I wouldn’t want to use a 2500 diesel 3-4 ton with a family of four and all the gear and things that go with it. You would likely approach the outer limits of payload. In that case a gas 2500 would be a good option.

If you really want to stick with a 1/2 ton you will probably have to order it to get the max payload and towing capabilities. From what you described of you current situation it should be more than adequate to get the job done. The 1500 will be a smoother driving truck for daily driving but the 2500 is still pretty good for a 3/4 ton truck.

I went with the 3500 knowing it would be a harsher ride but it is what I need for any future RV upgrade. The payload on the 1 ton trucks far exceed both the 3/4 and 1/2 ton Rams. I also have two other vehicles to drive. I have a 2010 Camaro to commute and a 66 Mustang to have fun in.

Bottom line is to know your payload and be sure to have a comfortable margin when fully loaded. You should calculate this based on trailer weight, passenger weight and any other items you will be carrying in the truck. You can gain more payload by putting some of these items in the trailer. The tongue weight increase will be far less than the actual weight of those items.

I would choose a 2500 over the 1500 if you want a diesel. The EcoDiesel just doesn’t add enough value to justify the cost, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Given the elevation and amount of miles you will be driving (and type of miles) I'd go diesel.


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Thanks for these comments, guys. This is very helpful.

On the elevation factor, is the issue that the naturally aspirated Hemi will be relatively weaker at 7k feet, whereas the turbo-diesel will retain much of its power? I understand this conceptually, just haven't heard from anyone with a gas truck what the loss really is around 7k-10k feet.

And to answer some of the questions above, even if we get a larger trailer I don't see it being over 5k lbs. And the tongue weight on my current trailer is very minimal, so payload is not a huge concern (at least not now).

Thanks again for the input, guys--much appreciated.
 
If you can swing it go with the diesel. Since you are considering diesel, there would be regret if you didn't go that route. The power when towing is not comparable and with the new Cummins the engine is just as smooth and quiet IMO.
 
jamesL said:
Thanks for these comments, guys. This is very helpful.

On the elevation factor, is the issue that the naturally aspirated Hemi will be relatively weaker at 7k feet, whereas the turbo-diesel will retain much of its power? I understand this conceptually, just haven't heard from anyone with a gas truck what the loss really is around 7k-10k feet.

And to answer some of the questions above, even if we get a larger trailer I don't see it being over 5k lbs. And the tongue weight on my current trailer is very minimal, so payload is not a huge concern (at least not now).

Thanks again for the input, guys--much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Yes the gas engine will lose power at altitude. ~3% for every 1000ft so you are ~21% down at 7000

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At 7000 feet, any N/A motor will feel like a total turd in comparison to something with forced induction. I cant even imagine 10,000 feet.

Diesel is the only choice here, because both the Cummins and Ecodiesel are turbocharged.
 
jamesL said:
Thanks for these comments, guys. This is very helpful.

On the elevation factor, is the issue that the naturally aspirated Hemi will be relatively weaker at 7k feet, whereas the turbo-diesel will retain much of its power? I understand this conceptually, just haven't heard from anyone with a gas truck what the loss really is around 7k-10k feet.

And to answer some of the questions above, even if we get a larger trailer I don't see it being over 5k lbs. And the tongue weight on my current trailer is very minimal, so payload is not a huge concern (at least not now).

Thanks again for the input, guys--much appreciated.
Click to expand...
I live at just over 6,000ft and I pull TTs up into the Colorado mountains regularly. Most of them are 7000-9000 dry. I never had an issue in my 2015 1500 (5.7), nor my 2015 2500 (6.4). Medical issues have prevented the ability to get out and do the same with the 2020 2500 (6.4), but when things free up, I'll have zero concerns doing it again. Can I go 90 up the Ike Gauntlet? - No, but I wouldn't want to anyway. I have no problems passing when I need to nor keeping a speed that keeps my wife from feeling too nervous nor throwing the dogs around in the backseat.

I debated long and hard when deciding to order my 2020 and for me the diesel just didn't make sense, but if it does for you, it will definitely be able to do all of the same work with ease.
 
LateToTheParty said:
I have no problems passing when I need to nor keeping a speed that keeps my wife from feeling too nervous nor throwing the dogs around in the backseat.
Click to expand...

What speed would that be? With 37's pulling 9k lbs, id be shocked if you could maintain 40mph up Ike. I cant imagine that truck in 2nd or 3rd gear screaming at redline to maintain speed lol... no thank you.

Be realistic and dont give this guy false hope.
 
go diesel with the altitude. exhaust brake would also be something you'd end up loving to death.


7k to 9k in a gasser at altitude, and tows like a dream? passing too? impressive.
 
Is there any consensus on whether there is a large mpg difference between the 1500 eco-diesel and the 2500 Cummins? I keep seeing a very wide range of reported mpg online, especially for the 2500 Cummins.
 
jamesL said:
Is there any consensus on whether there is a large mpg difference between the 1500 eco-diesel and the 2500 Cummins? I keep seeing a very wide range of reported mpg online, especially for the 2500 Cummins.
Click to expand...

Unloaded I would think the eco diesel would do better. HD trucks are heavy as hell and get good mpg for what they are but it's not spectacular. Don't believe the 2500's getting 25+ mpg on average. Straight highway with no hills yes, but that's not a realistic average for day to day. I'd say you will be around ~16 average (assuming you are going through some mountains?) unloaded given your location on a 2500 diesel. Straight highway will be better.



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gimmie11s said:
What speed would that be? With 37's pulling 9k lbs, id be shocked if you could maintain 40mph up Ike. I cant imagine that truck in 2nd or 3rd gear screaming at redline to maintain speed lol... no thank you.

Be realistic and dont give this guy false hope.
Click to expand...
The 6 speed definitely dropped down to 3rd to do so, but maintaining was never an issue.

Of course going up and over the passes where you have to drop down to 10 mph to round a curve, getting going again at a 7% grade at 12,000 feet of elevation, I'm sure takes longer to get back to speed than it would with the diesel, but do I sweat it? No.

And I'm definitely not trying to give anyone hope, I'm trying to share my personal experience. Since your personal experience through the CO mountains with a hemi is so much different, you should definitely share it as well so the OP can take it into consideration.
 
LateToTheParty said:
The 6 speed definitely dropped down to 3rd to do so, but maintaining was never an issue.

Of course going up and over the passes where you have to drop down to 10 mph to round a curve, getting going again at a 7% grade at 12,000 feet of elevation, I'm sure takes longer to get back to speed than it would with the diesel, but do I sweat it? No.

And I'm definitely not trying to give anyone hope, I'm trying to share my personal experience. Since your personal experience through the CO mountains with a hemi is so much different, you should definitely share it as well so the OP can take it into consideration.
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I ran Operations for a company in Henderson for almost 2 years from 2018 to 2020 and was on site 3 out of 4 weeks every month. My assigned work vehicle was a 2018 Classic 1500 with the 5.7.

I probably have more miles driving those mountains in a Ram v8 than you do. My advice (again) to OP........dont waste time with a N/A v8 towing 9000 lbs up mountains at 7000+ feet elevation.

Next?
 
I'm going to be an outlier. I think a 2500 with the 6.4L hemi would give you plenty of power and payload, and room to grow into and out of different campers over the years. A 2500 with the Cummins is probably going to limit you when you start thinking about the real weight of things like the whole family and a dog being in there, and although you said young kids, they grow fast.

So conservatively you have or will have 700+ lbs of cargo just in the living beings in the truck once the kids are teenagers. If you add 300lbs of camping gear to the bed you're up to 1k. You didn't say if your 3k trailer was GVWR or dry, but for the sake of argument let's say you eventually upgrade to a rig that is 4k dry, and 5500 loaded. If you don't pay attention to exactly how much weight you put on the tongue and just aim for it to be more than enough to not get trailer sway you're looking at 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight, plus a hitch setup of 100-150lbs. Suddenly your loaded weight is up to 1950lbs of payload, and if you have a diesel 2500 (depending on trim), that's maybe fairly close to all you'll have.

I've towed a trailer around 5500lbs loaded around Colorado with my 1500 and 5.7 hemi, while running near max payload for my 2019 Limited. Power wasn't really an issue. Yeah, it was running at higher rpms up the really steep stuff, but had no problems keeping up with traffic, regardless of the speeds.
 
jamesL said:
Is there any consensus on whether there is a large mpg difference between the 1500 eco-diesel and the 2500 Cummins? I keep seeing a very wide range of reported mpg online, especially for the 2500 Cummins.
Click to expand...
I've had both a new Ram 2014 1500 Eco-Diesel and now a new 2019 Ram 2500 diesel, and also live at the 7000 ft elevation in NE AZ. The Eco-Diesel was an awesome truck with 25-27 mpg around home, 27-29 on highway trips, and even hit 30 mpg on a couple trips. Towing mpg for the Eco-Diesel was 10-14 depending on the conditions. Pulling my small toyhauler (20ft 8500 lbs loaded) it did great until the steeper mountain grades, which slowed me down to 35-40 mph. In those conditions you had to watch your various temps so it didn't derate. But since most of my towing is here in the western Rocky Mountains, I decided I wanted more power for in those conditions. I did a lot of research on the various Ram sites regarding the fuel economy of the Ram 6.4 gas, and then the mpg and benefits of the diesel, and chose the diesel again. I'm seeing 11-13 mpg towing and 20-23 mpg daily driving (hand calculated) with the 2500. Of course those mpg's vary a little during the year since we have summer and winter fuels. And lastly who knows, I may step up to a larger trailer, so got it covered!
 
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