Ceramic coating and PPF worth it or not..lets hear from the masses

[phatboy64]

So I have a new 2023 RAM 3500 Limited in black (all my cars/trucks have been black). I have been reading a lot about Ceramic coatings and PPF (I believe the is that the film is called) and have a bunch of questions for people who have real experience with these products. My current position is I am skeptical about the Ceramic coating, for a few reasons. First I am old enough to remember the “Simonize” days and how great that was supposed to be, I had a few cars come back with horrible buffing swirls, one so bad I had to trade the truck in six months later because I couldn’t stand looking at it, so I am very nervous having someone work on the paint on a new car.



Ceramic coating questions and concerns

• I see they have various options, 1 – 5 years. My first question is, when it starts to ware off does the car’s finish look blotchy?
• Are you stuck for the life of the truck touching up the coating so it doesn’t look like crap (blotchy) due to wearing off?
• I live in New England and don’t have any place indoors to wash my truck, so five months of the year it is not practical to hand wash my truck and have to run it through car washes, it is that or let it Sur come to rust. It is a choose of two evils. The shops that do the Ceramic coatings all tell me that running it through a car wash (including touchless) will take the Ceramic coating off, I was also told brushing show off my truck would make it ware off prematurely. This makes me wonder how tough the ceramic coating really is, I thought it “bonded” to the paint? For $2K plus I still have to baby the paint?? So the questions is, What has your experience been?

PPF questions and concerns

• With the film, do I have a new set of issues where the film gets fine scratched it in and looks like crap after a few years?
• Does dirt collect on the edges of the film?
• Does it yellow after time?
• When it comes time to remove the film is the paint underneath damaged? I mean all I hear from the Ceramic guys is how “thin” and easy it is to damage the factory paint. I can’t imagine peeling off something that has been sticking to the paint for years not causing damage.
• I am seeing prices of over $2500 to do partial fronts, if it is just chips I would think I can have my hood repainted for less…

So is it worth it or overrated…lets hear form the folks with real experience with these products.

 

[Greenhills]

Not familiar with ceramic... i don't use it because i think its over hyped.

I do PPF my front ends. headlights, fogs, 1/2 hood, A pillars and roofline was $900 on my power wagon.

My 1500 sport with the painted front end, so the entire front end was covered... $1200.

Doesn't scratch (most are self healing), doesn't fade and I don't really notice buildup at the edges of the film.

 

[techman]

Disclaimer, I have neither, but my insights might be worth reading on. I went through the same analysis you are doing and I also live in NE.

First, there are no shortcuts. If you think either one eliminates the need for periodic washing, cleaning, and care it does not. Neither option will prevent chips but the PPF "might" withstand a small hit. No such thing as self healing either, it's plastic not human skin. Both technologies are not effective without diligent paint prep. The dealer installing it must prove that the paint prep is 98% of the job or your results will not last or present as expected. Both are expensive.

I did a TON of research and I determined that neither was worth the expense. I came close to just putting the PPF on the front and rockers, but was still going to be over $2K just for that.

So, two bucket handwashing for me on my billet silver BH. First NE winter in the books, 6K miles later, and still looks new. The RAM paint seems to hold up well so far.

 

[tyler2you]

Bottom line up front--given your use case, I wouldn't do either . . . rationale below:

Ceramic coating questions and concerns

• I see they have various options, 1 – 5 years. My first question is, when it starts to ware off does the car’s finish look blotchy?
  • No--when it wears, it won't be visible. It will lose it's ability to bead water and some of its slickness, but you won't see any difference
• Are you stuck for the life of the truck touching up the coating so it doesn’t look like crap (blotchy) due to wearing off?
  • If you want the coating to last, then you will need to apply a "reload" product every once in a while when you notice it starting to lose it's ability to bead water. Many of the professional detailers require an annual inspection to maintain the warranty.
• I live in New England and don’t have any place indoors to wash my truck, so five months of the year it is not practical to hand wash my truck and have to run it through car washes, it is that or let it Sur come to rust. It is a choose of two evils. The shops that do the Ceramic coatings all tell me that running it through a car wash (including touchless) will take the Ceramic coating off, I was also told brushing show off my truck would make it ware off prematurely. This makes me wonder how tough the ceramic coating really is, I thought it “bonded” to the paint? For $2K plus I still have to baby the paint?? So the questions is, What has your experience been?
  • One of the big benefits of getting ceramic applied is the paint correction that's done beforehand. A quality detailer will spend several hours cleaning and polishing the paint prior to application to remove scratches and swirls. If you're going to be running your truck through a car wash, you'll not only be shortening the life of the coating, but reintroducing all of those swirl marks they polished out.

PPF questions and concerns

• With the film, do I have a new set of issues where the film gets fine scratched it in and looks like crap after a few years?
  • If you're running it through a car wash on a regular basis, then yes, the PPF will get swirl marks and fine scratches just like clear coat. It will probably be several years before it gets to the point of looking like "crap"
• Does dirt collect on the edges of the film?
  • If you don't pay a little extra attention to the edges when you're washing, then yes, they will collect dirt, wax, etc.
• Does it yellow after time?
  • I had 3M PPF on a silver BMW many years ago. It started to yellow after around 7 years or so. The yellowing was the least of the cosmetic issues (adhesive failed in spots, hazy, chips/tears, etc.). Although they say the film is warrantied for 10 years against these problems--it's just the film that's covered (not the installation).
• When it comes time to remove the film is the paint underneath damaged? I mean all I hear from the Ceramic guys is how “thin” and easy it is to damage the factory paint. I can’t imagine peeling off something that has been sticking to the paint for years not causing damage.
  • When I removed it from my BMW, it didn't do any damage to the paint. It was a job to remove using a heat gun and lots of effort and left behind some adhesive that had to be removed using chemicals.
• I am seeing prices of over $2500 to do partial fronts, if it is just chips I would think I can have my hood repainted for less…
  • Agree. I wouldn't do it again and would just budget for a repaint when it's time.

 

[Greenhills]

Disclaimer, I have neither, but my insights might be worth reading on. I went through the same analysis you are doing and I also live in NE.

First, there are no shortcuts. If you think either one eliminates the need for periodic washing, cleaning, and care it does not. Neither option will prevent chips but the PPF "might" withstand a small hit. No such thing as self healing either, it's plastic not human skin. Both technologies are not effective without diligent paint prep. The dealer installing it must prove that the paint prep is 98% of the job or your results will not last or present as expected. Both are expensive.

I did a TON of research and I determined that neither was worth the expense. I came close to just putting the PPF on the front and rockers, but was still going to be over $2K just for that.

So, two bucket handwashing for me on my billet silver BH. First NE winter in the books, 6K miles later, and still looks new. The RAM paint seems to hold up well so far.

100% wrong on ppf.

First of all, my PPF'ed area's have taken rocks big enough to leave dents in my roof but didnt break the PPF film.

Second, where I live the roads are coated in gravel all winter long, the ppf stops 99% of all chips, hands down. There is no "might".



It also absolutely has self healing properties.

Ram paint is also very thin.

 

[Dave01]

I met with a highly recommended shop in the area (I'm in New England as well), made an appointment to have ceramic done, ...... and cancelled it. It was going to be around $2,500, and after feeling like I wanted to do it sticker shock set in. So for now I'm going to be like Techman and do a nice hand wash, I've got the routine down and can wash the truck pretty quickly when I'm hustling. I use a spray wax after washing, find it looks good and keeps it clean a bit longer, will do a good quality wax periodically.

My Mazda RX8 was ceramic coated by the young guy I bought it from 4 years ago, he did detailing as a job for a while and seemed to do a really nice job. It still looks great, pretty much always looks clean even when I know better, washes really easily. That's what made me want to do ceramic on the Ram, just don't want to spend that much right now.

And finally, for me to do it myself isn't something I'm interested in.

 

[Nick]

I put a 2 ft strip on the hood and the leading edge of the roof about $200 Did the same on the car . Ceramic seems to be a lot of money that you could spend on other good stuff like tires ,wheels and the list goes on .

 

[44Dan44]

Unpopular opinion:
Ceramic is basically an overpriced wax job. Paint correction is a good thing but after that.... nano polymer hydrophobic whozitwhatsitz meh
PPF meh, its a truck, wash, touch up paint, repaint as needed in 10 years. What are we doing?

Of course anyone who has paid thousands of dollars already will tell you how amazing they both are, not having a scientific basis to say the truck would look the same a year later. You'd have to set up a whole control group/test group testing under the exact same conditions to prove otherwise.

Note: Your attempt to prove me wrong will fall on deaf ears, as will my opinion to skip both to your ears. I have no say in how you spend your money, I'm not mad, argue amongst yourselves. @tyler2you The purple font is unreadable to me.

 

[ppine]

Yes. Great technology.

 

[mountainears]

I have both. 6 years ago I fully wrapped my corvette. I did not do ceramic over it initially, a few years later I had it added. Made a very noticeable difference in repelling water and makes it easier to clean.

It has held up really well so when I got my 3500 last year I did both immediately. Truck is fully wrapped with a ceramic coat on top. The difference is that I used a thicker XPel on the truck.

PPF has a memory so if there are scratches they should disappear. I also have darker cars and it really makes me feel more comfortable cleaning things up and not worrying about putting swirls in my car.


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[mountainears]

Adding. As mentioned I’ve had mine for 6 years on my vette. It is not bullet proof of course and I have had a spot that needed to be replaced (it protected what would have been a scratch). No issues replacing the film, removing it, etc. and now yellowing, good brands will have a warranty for that.

If you’re not doing the full truck, do full surfaces. Run it up the whole hood for example, not just part of it. This will eliminate edges that you might worry about.


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[unclelala]

Personal priorities are what it’s all about. I’ll admit up front I’m totally anal about my vehicles being spotless inside and out. This is my 3rd vehicle with ceramic coating and the last 2 also had PPF. I bought my Ram 2021 specifically for towing our 5th wheel and keep the truck pretty much stock except for tires , bed cover, mud flaps, stone deflector etc. etc.

I did the first car myself which was a 2013 Pathfinder and thought it was pretty good, then I bought a 2017 1500 Ram and had it done by a pro in town with IGL Coatings and the PPF, both about $2200 CA. For the 4 years I only had to wash it about a dozen times…it would rain or snow and when it dried off it would be clean.

On my 2021 Ram I thought I treat myself and blow money on a snobby shop in Toronto which costs around $3800 CA. They used “Modesta Plus” then PPF then Modesta Plus on top of the PPF… and wow ! … it’s just wow!

I don’t plan on doing any mods or raising the suspension or any rock crawling add ons so I don’t mind spending the dough on making her pretty so IMO we all have our priorities, crutches and hobbies.

As for as tyler2you questions about the PPF and coatings, none of my PPF yellowed or collected dirt on the edge of it well none that wouldn’t wash off that is.​

As far of the rest of your questions I pretty much have gotten a new ride every 4 years and couldn’t really tell you the long term affects are.

All I know is I I’m happy as $^%t with the results as a whole and will continue to use it for future purchases.

 

[Vdrsnk]

Is it worth it? Well that’s all perspective and in the eyes of the beholder. Some may not think it makes sense to spend $100k on a loaded RAM. You will have to decide if the cost is worth it to you or not.

But both ceramic coating and PPF work phenomenal. Now if you continue to use touch auto car washes it won’t be worth it cause you will ruin the investment you made. Touch less auto wash though and you are good.

I have 3 vehicles currently with a 10 yr warranty ceramic coating applied. The upkeep is extremely easy I will say. Protection against rocks and road debris is honestly negligible.

I have 1 vehicle (my RAM) completely covered in PPF. The self healing qualities id say work well to a point. But a big enough hit and it does a great job protecting the paint but won’t self heal from it and the section needs replaced. Which I’m ok with, but not everyone may think that.

I will also say your experience in doing this will almost all be in the specialist you choose to do the work. I had a bad experience prior, and it almost steered me away for good.

I am a very OCD person with vehicles I should add.

Moving forward based on my experience I will full PPF all vehicles after having it now. It does cost more then just a ceramic job though.

 

[unclelala]

Touch less auto wash though and you are good.

I was told don't even take it to touchless because they use even stronger chemicals than the touch to actually be able to clean the vehicle.

 

[Steve_Cornell]

I just had the entire front of my 22 3500 night edition wrapped in PPF, I had a 2020 night edition that was not and even a bug hitting the painted steel bumper seemed to chip the paint, at 33,000 miles the front bumper had dozens of paint chips, that's why I decided to have the front of my new one wrapped.
I have a 21 Classic with the plastic bumper covers and it doesn't chip near as bad as the painted steel bumper.

My 20 3500 was ceramic coated with Adams Graphene coating, I ran it through the touchless car wash dozens of times and it held up great after 2 years, very easy to keep clean, with that said I did detail it with the Ceramic booster detailer a couple times a month.

 

[Vdrsnk]

I was told don't even take it to touchless because they use even stronger chemicals than the touch to actually be able to clean the vehicle.

Anything is possible I guess. But my ceramic/PPF provider has it in their 10 year warranty you can go through touch less auto washes just not touch auto washes because the brushes are what causes the damage.

And for me on my 4 vehicles every one of them still feels and looks like the day I picked them up.

 

[phatboy64]

I have been talking to a PPF/Ceramic installer who has a great reputation. I think I am going to move forward with a full front and a ceramic coating. I am doing it more for the PPF. Still contemplating but 80% there...

 

[TonyT]

I had the PPF and Ceramic done in 2019. It still looks great and beads the water off. I still take it through the automated carwash even though I guess its not great for it.

Up close some of the trim around the door handles is starting to peel up ever so slightly, and I've gotten some rock chips in the bumper that have gone through and chipped the paint.

I'd say in another year I'll have the PPF stripped and reapplied along with a fresh paint correction and ceramic coat. It's certainly been worth it.

The shop you go to will make or break your experience, so choose wisely. The first shop I went to butchered my truck even though the people who referred me to him vouched for his abilities. The next shop had to do twice as much work because they had to fix his mistakes and some of things he did will never be fixed.

As an example, I’ll post this pic of the truck. I’ve not washed it in a week and I’ve driven it probably 200 miles around Phoenix. A non paint-corrected, ceramic coated truck would look different.

 

[phatboy64]

I had the PPF and Ceramic done in 2019. It still looks great and beads the water off. I still take it through the automated carwash even though I guess its not great for it.

Up close some of the trim around the door handles is starting to peel up ever so slightly, and I've gotten some rock chips in the bumper that have gone through and chipped the paint.

I'd say in another year I'll have the PPF stripped and reapplied along with a fresh paint correction and ceramic coat. It's certainly been worth it.

The shop you go to will make or break your experience, so choose wisely. The first shop I went to butchered my truck even though the people who referred me to him vouched for his abilities. The next shop had to do twice as much work because they had to fix his mistakes and some of things he did will never be fixed.

As an example, I’ll post this pic of the truck. I’ve not washed it in a week and I’ve driven it probably 200 miles around Phoenix. A non paint-corrected, ceramic coated truck would look different.
View attachment 54299

Look nice..

what did the first shop do wrong?

 

[TonyT]

Look nice..

what did the first shop do wrong?

There were areas the PPF pulled itself back short of the edges and corners. Quite a few hairline cuts in the paint from improper technique with the razor blade. Trim at the B-Pillars (between the windows) was stressed too much and is no longer straight. I had to buy a new 2500 hood badge because it was marred so bad from removal, paint is scratched underneath. Also bought a new hood gasket because he tore and ripped it during removal.

Worst part of all is I was out of town and trusted them that the truck was sitting pretty in their shop like they said it would be to show their clients the work they've done. Long story short - The guy was using it as his own personal work truck. 370 miles on the tow-odometer! It's a shame this guy is praised for the work he's done on high-end exotics and classic cars, because I know now what he does with these cars after they're left with him. Smoking the tires down the street, taking UTVs for a rip out in the desert nearby... stuff like that. Karma will catch up with them.