Can’t decide: Rebel Cummins or P. wagon

[jems007]

Coming from a gladiator on 37s and 3.5” lift. I know already neither the Rebel or PW will be exactly like it.

I tow a 6000lb loaded trailer. Tongue weight is about 765 to 1100 depending on how much water is in the 54g tank. Gladiator isn’t cutting it on either power or payload.

With the PW hooked up to the loaded trailer I’ll be right at payload capacity without water in the Trailer. With my family in the truck and cargo, etc. I’ve done all the calculations correctly. Yes I went to a scale.

I know the disadvantage of the rebel Cummins is the additional 1000lb weight, no front locker, no disconnecting sway bar. But, does anyone know if you can get decent flex if you disconnect the sway bar manually?

I still plan on going on hells revenge in Moab and doing hells gate and such. I’ve done it in gladiator. I’ll definitely do it in the Pw. Still unsure about the rebel cummins.

With The rebel Cummins I’ll have additional my payload (300-400lbs more) to fill my water tanks and hold more gear. Or if I decide to upgrade to bigger 40” tires down the road.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[flan]

How often do you tow and how far?

 

[Enve46]

Coming from a gladiator on 37s and 3.5” lift. I know already neither the Rebel or PW will be exactly like it.

I tow a 6000lb loaded trailer. Tongue weight is about 765 to 1100 depending on how much water is in the 54g tank. Gladiator isn’t cutting it on either power or payload.

With the PW hooked up to the loaded trailer I’ll be right at payload capacity without water in the Trailer. With my family in the truck and cargo, etc. I’ve done all the calculations correctly. Yes I went to a scale.

I know the disadvantage of the rebel Cummins is the additional 1000lb weight, no front locker, no disconnecting sway bar. But, does anyone know if you can get decent flex if you disconnect the sway bar manually?

I still plan on going on hells revenge in Moab and doing hells gate and such. I’ve done it in gladiator. I’ll definitely do it in the Pw. Still unsure about the rebel cummins.

With The rebel Cummins I’ll have additional my payload (300-400lbs more) to fill my water tanks and hold more gear. Or if I decide to upgrade to bigger 40” tires down the road.

Any words of wisdom?

Can’t speak on the Rebel but I’ve had other diesels, same suspension so I can chime in on going something like Thuren/Carli suspension will give you enough suspension to do what you want to do. I would say use Carli R2 springs in the rear to help with payload and squat while towing AND not lose capability offroad.

I own a PW now and absolutely love everything about it. I’ve also had several Jeeps and I can tell you without a doubt the PW will outperform a very capable Gladiator right out of the box. I run 37s on AEV wheels with stock suspension but just ordered a Thuren kit. The only downfall for my situation right now is I am driving a lot more and netting 9-10mpg at best and it’s costing more than expected. I’ve considered going back to a diesel and still might but waiting for 2025 info to be released. I don’t know if I’ll ever be in a situation where I’ll need the full PW package but it’s nice to have.

For me, I think an AEV truck would be a sweet spot but it’s expensive. It’s tough for me to say one will be better for you than the other but I would think a Rebel with aftermarket suspension would be more than capable for what you’ve said, will give you higher payload and better fuel economy. I’ve ever ran Moab but I’ve seen plenty of vehicles on video, including stock PW and Rebels so I don’t think you’ll make a bad decision here. Have to weight each one’s benefits vs the other and see what makes sense. I do love my PW but the fuel cost me $620 alone last month and set for another $600 this month. Doing some math and diesel would cost me about $350-400 in fuel at 15mpg which I think it’s a reasonable expectation based on my previous experience.

 

[jems007]

How often do you tow and how far?

In the spring/fall/summer I’d say 2 camp trips per month, ranging from (one way) 90 minutes on the short end to 3-4 hours on the mid range trips once per year a long one to the cost about 12-15 hours.

Can’t speak on the Rebel but I’ve had other diesels, same suspension so I can chime in on going something like Thuren/Carli suspension will give you enough suspension to do what you want to do. I would say use Carli R2 springs in the rear to help with payload and squat while towing AND not lose capability offroad.

I own a PW now and absolutely love everything about it. I’ve also had several Jeeps and I can tell you without a doubt the PW will outperform a very capable Gladiator right out of the box. I run 37s on AEV wheels with stock suspension but just ordered a Thuren kit. The only downfall for my situation right now is I am driving a lot more and netting 9-10mpg at best and it’s costing more than expected. I’ve considered going back to a diesel and still might but waiting for 2025 info to be released. I don’t know if I’ll ever be in a situation where I’ll need the full PW package but it’s nice to have.

For me, I think an AEV truck would be a sweet spot but it’s expensive. It’s tough for me to say one will be better for you than the other but I would think a Rebel with aftermarket suspension would be more than capable for what you’ve said, will give you higher payload and better fuel economy. I’ve ever ran Moab but I’ve seen plenty of vehicles on video, including stock PW and Rebels so I don’t think you’ll make a bad decision here. Have to weight each one’s benefits vs the other and see what makes sense. I do love my PW but the fuel cost me $620 alone last month and set for another $600 this month. Doing some math and diesel would cost me about $350-400 in fuel at 15mpg which I think it’s a reasonable expectation based on my previous experience.

Good to know! I don’t have a commute for work so I’d prob save money on fuel but I can see myself not being happy towing with the PW, but having the front locker would sure be nice down in Moab. You have me leaning towards the rebel diesel

 

[Enve46]

In the spring/fall/summer I’d say 2 camp trips per month, ranging from (one way) 90 minutes on the short end to 3-4 hours on the mid range trips once per year a long one to the cost about 12-15 hours.





Good to know! I don’t have a commute for work so I’d prob save money on fuel but I can see myself not being happy towing with the PW, but having the front locker would sure be nice down in Moab. You have me leaning towards the rebel diesel

You can always add the R2 coils to the PW or do airbags, plenty of PW guys who tow or overland go that route. I believe you can add the PW front locker to the Rebel as it shares the same axle, but I don’t know the details on that. Would be cool to do that and get a Rebel with the Auxiliary switches, have the locker linked to that

 

[jems007]

You can always add the R2 coils to the PW or do airbags, plenty of PW guys who tow or overland go that route. I believe you can add the PW front locker to the Rebel as it shares the same axle, but I don’t know the details on that. Would be cool to do that and get a Rebel with the Auxiliary switches, have the locker linked to that

I don’t think any of the gen 5 HD rams have after market lockers available yet, unfortunately. If they did I’d definitely be leaning rebel Cummins. Hopefully someone proves me wrong here.

The airbags or WDH are a must on the PW

 

[Enve46]

I don’t think any of the gen 5 HD rams have after market lockers available yet, unfortunately. If they did I’d definitely be leaning rebel Cummins. Hopefully someone proves me wrong here.

The airbags or WDH are a must on the PW

Theoretically you can put a Power Wagon front locker in a non PW axle, they're the same housing.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I don’t think any of the gen 5 HD rams have after market lockers available yet, unfortunately. If they did I’d definitely be leaning rebel Cummins. Hopefully someone proves me wrong here.

The airbags or WDH are a must on the PW

Can't say you're wrong on the lockers, but there's no Gen 5 HD Ram. They are 4.5 Gen.

 

[Kauffmj1]

I'm a jeep guy as well and even though you don't want to use that front locker often, if you do real off-roading, its nice to have. Especially in a vehicle as large and heavy as a PW. I've towed my 4 door JK with 35s, steel skid plates and steel bumpers and power wise, the truck doesn't seem to mind it at all. Its not working super hard. But you do feel that softer suspension in back and notice the squat. I'd base it on what you will do more. If its your only offroader and you are looking to tackle tough stuff like Hell Revenge, I would go PW all day long. If you are going to tow and overland more often with the occasional off-road flex, then I would go Rebel. Heck, I watched a stock 2500 on a YouTube video go through Fins n Things pretty easily.

 

[jems007]

Theoretically you can put a Power Wagon front locker in a non PW axle, they're the same housing.

If that is an option I’d definitely explore that.
I can’t find anyone who has done that though.

Theoretically you can put a Power Wagon front locker in a non PW axle, they're the same housing.

Rebel Cummins has 3.73 vs PowerWagon 4.10. I would to swap both front and rear axles entirely.

 

[Enve46]

If that is an option I’d definitely explore that.
I can’t find anyone who has done that though.

Rebel Cummins has 3.73 vs PowerWagon 4.10. I would to swap both front and rear axles entirely.

Im not sure exactly how it can be done and Im kinda shocked no one has tried honestly. The housing is the same in the front, not sure why the carrier, gears etc wouldn't swap in. May not be worth the effort to do that VS like you said a complete axle swap. That may be easier and resell your OEM ones. Im just talking through it is all.

In my opinion, I coudn't imagine you couldn't get a Rebel with its rear limited slip through most of Moab. Ive seen all types of things go through, sure a locker is nice

 

[RPS1030]

I don't see numbers that justify modern diesel emissions.

My 16 PW had no significant problems with a 8000lb camper while on full Thuren, 37s, regeared, etc. While also having a ton of offroad capability and usage. Just mostly stay on top of downshifting manually before the computer drops a bunch of gears.

Crawler Hauler with 3k Pin Weight, Range of 70+ gallons of fuel, and 2500' of elevation change right out of town for every time I play keeps me in my current 3500 diesel.

 

[Enve46]

I don't see numbers that justify modern diesel emissions.

My 16 PW had no significant problems with a 8000lb camper while on full Thuren, 37s, regeared, etc. While also having a ton of offroad capability and usage. Just mostly stay on top of downshifting manually before the computer drops a bunch of gears.

Crawler Hauler with 3k Pin Weight, Range of 70+ gallons of fuel, and 3500' of elevation change right out of town for every time I play keeps me in my current 3500 diesel.

I dont disagree with you about the gasser being able to do it and dont think the discussion is can it do it. I love my PW but 9.5 mpg unloaded is costly, more costly than diesel at 50-75% more efficiency.

 

[RPS1030]

I dont disagree with you about the gasser being able to do it and dont think the discussion is can it do it. I love my PW but 9.5 mpg unloaded is costly, more costly than diesel at 50-75% more efficiency.

I’d love 50% higher, let alone more. My PW was usually 10-11 too.

 

[Enve46]

I’d love 50% higher, let alone more. My PW was usually 10-11 too.

View attachment 70540

Are these unloaded or pulling something? You have an HO as well, correct?

 

[RPS1030]

Are these unloaded or pulling something? You have an HO as well, correct?

Except for KOH, almost all empty.

HO currently = low teens
SO previously = low teens
Hemi = low teens

 

[Brutal_HO]

Cummins gets a whiff of a heavy trailer and it's 10MPG give or take a few.

All that power (HO) comes at a cost. SO won't be much better if at all.

Summer is towing for me. I pull ~16K in the west and don't spare the horses.

 

[Enve46]

I don’t know how. My 2019 pulled my wife’s Q8 that was stuffed with **** from our move, bed full of ammo, myself, my dad, a dog and back seat of mega cab filled. I hand calculated 14+ mpg. Unloaded easily in the high teens and sometimes if I had the wind right in the 20s.

 

[Enve46]

Except for KOH, almost all empty.

HO currently = low teens
SO previously = low teens
Hemi = low teens

My hemi doesn’t see teens now. Best was on a highway trip at 65 mph I got 16-17. Hasn’t since. Granted 37s hurt but still. My diesel’s around town were all 13 range and highway 16+++ easily at 80 mph

 

[jems007]

I towed a 6000lb trailer round trip through Utah mountains in a rented Laramie Cummins last month and averaged 9-10 MPG.

I bet the hemi would have been closer to 6-7