Buy a 5th wheel instead or a bumper pull?

[texas.yankee]

Yeah since we've got your attention, I've got some questions too.

As far as I know, being over payload is not illegal, not in my state anyway, Kansas. Trucks roll over DOT scales over mfr rated payload all the time, no tickets. That's here and many other states I've been in as well.

So what state(s) is your first hand knowledge in? What are they looking for? Over tire ratings? Over axle or what?

I've flat out asked KS DOT about GCWR and 2 different officers have told me they don't pay any attention to it.

Another interesting little tidbit on KS DOT rules, they'll give you a set amount of overweight grace, pretty sure it's 5%.

Exceeding any manufacturer rated capacity is illegal, but it's a federal standard. Most states have their own policy and enforcement can vary significantly between departments. Generally, most go off GVWR and GCVWR and axle ratings. Ask any seasoned long-haul OTR driver and he'll be able to tell you where to have your **** in order, and where you can slide by. CMV in Texas can and will issue citations, especially if they think you're trying to skirt having a CDL. I have personal knowledge of CMV requiring a non-cdl driver's trailer to be unhitched on a Ram 3500 DRW due to Exceeding payload of truck and GCVWR. Driver was issued a citation for both and given option to have someone come get trailer ASAP or it would be impounded and towed away (I was legal truck and license that saved his ass). I personally have been scaled (mobile) several times in Texas (specifically west DFW) and in Southern OK. In OK, I was within 50 lbs of rated capacity (GVWR of trailer, not truck) and told I was lucky that if I was over they'd be taking my trailer.

FYI, the 5% in KS is for mobile scales only due to variance in scale equipment, but fixed, certed scales are 0% tolerance (enforcement is again, different).

I've been issued warnings for chains not crossing on a bumper pull. The officer has discretion on how much he wants to make your life a pain.

I don't *think* they do tire loads, but I would have to ask to verify. I believe it's just axle and over all.

It is not illegal, it's a civil penalty. Can't stop someone for it, etc. Nobody cares if you're just driving and overloaded. Have a bicyclist wadded up in your fender and things that weren't an issue before now may be an issue. Civil Court, especially, where they will use it to paint you as reckless and disregarding manufacturers safety rules.

Low odds, high stakes.

It can be criminal. Look at the jackass hauling a boat way too big and killed some people. It was criminal negligence Exceeding manufacturer specifications. Not sure if it was payload, though, and probably didn't matter at that point.


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[Docwagon1776]

It can be criminal. Look at the jackass hauling a boat way too big and killed some people. It was criminal negligence Exceeding manufacturer specifications. Not sure if it was payload, though, and probably didn't matter at that point.

Sure. Change the facts, change the outcome. The bigger issue for that guy was he had chances to turn off and didn't, preferring to plow into traffic. The overloaded part wasn't what was criminal, but it certainly played in to the overall narrative of reckless disregard.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

CMV in Texas can and will issue citations, especially if they think you're trying to skirt having a CDL. I have personal knowledge of CMV requiring a non-cdl driver's trailer to be unhitched on a Ram 3500 DRW due to Exceeding payload of truck and GCVWR. Driver was issued a citation for both and given option to have someone come get trailer ASAP or it would be impounded and towed away (I was legal truck and license that saved his ass). I personally have been scaled (mobile) several times in Texas (specifically west DFW) and in Southern OK. In OK, I was within 50 lbs of rated capacity (GVWR of trailer, not truck) and told I was lucky that if I was over they'd be taking my trailer.

What were they/you hauling that you were looked at or pulled over?

 

[texas.yankee]

What were they/you hauling that you were looked at or pulled over?

40' Gooseneck with farm equipment and a mini front loader. He could have loaded the trailer better to distribute his pin weight, but he was over his GCVWR for his truck (higher gear ratio, mega cab, etc.). He did attempt to fight the ticket and lost. The way Texas words the weight limits leaves it a gray enough area where it stuck, he said. It wasn't a hefty fine, and I don't recall what the fine was. Several hundred total between the two, I think.

Personally, I've been spot checked in a few states, and it's been everything from bumper pull equipment trailers to low boy gooseneck trailers to my 21k lb 45' toy hauler. Luckily, I've never been issued a citation, but a few warnings (always for silly stuff like the aforementioned chains not being crossed). I average about 15-20k miles a year with a trailer of some type behind me from Texas to South Dakota to Maine and back, so I see a lot windshield time towing and that increases my odds of getting seen I suppose. The 40' gooseneck draws the most attention.

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[H3LZSN1P3R]

40' Gooseneck with farm equipment and a mini front loader. He could have loaded the trailer better to distribute his pin weight, but he was over his GCVWR for his truck (lower gear ratio, mega cab, etc.). He did attempt to fight the ticket and lost. The way Texas words the weight limits leaves it a gray enough area where it stuck, he said. It wasn't a hefty fine, and I don't recall what the fine was. Several hundred total between the two, I think.

Personally, I've been spot checked in a few states, and it's been everything from bumper pull equipment trailers to low boy gooseneck trailers to my 21k lb 45' toy hauler. Luckily, I've never been issued a citation, but a few warnings (always for silly stuff like the aforementioned chains not being crossed). I average about 15-20k miles a year with a trailer of some type behind me from Texas to South Dakota to Maine and back, so I see a lot windshield time towing and that increases my odds of getting seen I suppose. The 40' gooseneck draws the most attention.

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They are looking at you because you are/ look like a commercial hauler i guarantee! Here the RV laws are so vague they cant even comment let alone ticket on weight because its not commercial lol

 

[texas.yankee]

Sure. Change the facts, change the outcome. The bigger issue for that guy was he had chances to turn off and didn't, preferring to plow into traffic. The overloaded part wasn't what was criminal, but it certainly played in to the overall narrative of reckless disregard.

We might be talking about a different guy. One I'm talking about was specifically charged for several things referring specifically to improper loading, operating an unsafe vehicle, and got commercial vehicle charges too (as well as the charges for murder and traffic violations). Dude got hit with like 10 charges related to the vehicle, THEN the other stuff. Happened a couple years ago somewhere out west I think.

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[McHenry2500]

Personally, I've been spot checked in a few states, and it's been everything from bumper pull equipment trailers to low boy gooseneck trailers to my 21k lb 45' toy hauler. Luckily, I've never been issued a citation, but a few warnings (always for silly stuff like the aforementioned chains not being crossed). I average about 15-20k miles a year with a trailer of some type behind me from Texas to South Dakota to Maine and back, so I see a lot windshield time towing and that increases my odds of getting seen I suppose. The 40' gooseneck draws the most attention.

I've hauled alot of equipment, cattle, and feed all over Texas and can count on one hand the number of times I've been stopped by DPS. The state police and highway patrol are the ones who really enforce those kind of things. Local PD doesn't seem to notice or care. I do try to stay at the speed limit when I'm hauling.

To the OP's question: I've made it a personal rule to never buy any bumper pull trailer over 18'. Regardless of trailer weight or application (I don't own a TT/5'er but do have multiple livestock and utility trailers) anything over 18' is just much easier to maneuver and get around with in a gooseneck.

 

[texas.yankee]

The state police and highway patrol are the ones who really enforce those kind of things. Local PD doesn't seem to notice or care.

I would agree with this, although I never really thought of it until you pointed it out. It was almost always CMV or a trooper. Only one I can think of that was local was Lakeside PD just North of Fort Worth going up to Jacksboro from downtown Fort Worth.

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[SnowBlaZR2]

40' Gooseneck with farm equipment and a mini front loader. He could have loaded the trailer better to distribute his pin weight, but he was over his GCVWR for his truck (higher gear ratio, mega cab, etc.). He did attempt to fight the ticket and lost. The way Texas words the weight limits leaves it a gray enough area where it stuck, he said. It wasn't a hefty fine, and I don't recall what the fine was. Several hundred total between the two, I think.

Personally, I've been spot checked in a few states, and it's been everything from bumper pull equipment trailers to low boy gooseneck trailers to my 21k lb 45' toy hauler. Luckily, I've never been issued a citation, but a few warnings (always for silly stuff like the aforementioned chains not being crossed). I average about 15-20k miles a year with a trailer of some type behind me from Texas to South Dakota to Maine and back, so I see a lot windshield time towing and that increases my odds of getting seen I suppose. The 40' gooseneck draws the most attention.

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Gotcha. It's something I think about because we're close on the GVWR for our 1500. We were actually 380 lbs over with a fully loaded rig before I moved some things around and adjusted our ProPride.

Last weigh we were 60 lbs over with full water/holding tanks. It tows great now, but we're going to be moving up to a 3500 this year or next.

 

[Blythkd1]

40' Gooseneck with farm equipment and a mini front loader. He could have loaded the trailer better to distribute his pin weight, but he was over his GCVWR for his truck (higher gear ratio, mega cab, etc.). He did attempt to fight the ticket and lost. The way Texas words the weight limits leaves it a gray enough area where it stuck, he said. It wasn't a hefty fine, and I don't recall what the fine was. Several hundred total between the two, I think.

Personally, I've been spot checked in a few states, and it's been everything from bumper pull equipment trailers to low boy gooseneck trailers to my 21k lb 45' toy hauler. Luckily, I've never been issued a citation, but a few warnings (always for silly stuff like the aforementioned chains not being crossed). I average about 15-20k miles a year with a trailer of some type behind me from Texas to South Dakota to Maine and back, so I see a lot windshield time towing and that increases my odds of getting seen I suppose. The 40' gooseneck draws the most attention.

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You should do everything to the letter because you're the unluckiest guy I've ever heard of. LOL.

I've pulled all that stuff all over the nation and never been pulled over for a roadside check. Specifically, been pulling new RV's all across the nation since spring of 2018, nothing.

I watch my P's and Q's in TX because I know they don't mess around down there. Nothing.

Only times I've ever been pulled over for a check were all within 2 hours of home here in KS when hauling bulk, i.e. dumptruck, grain trailer or pneumatic tank.

 

[texas.yankee]

You should do everything to the letter because you're the unluckiest guy I've ever heard of. LOL.

I've pulled all that stuff all over the nation and never been pulled over for a roadside check. Specifically, been pulling new RV's all across the nation since spring of 2018, nothing.

I watch my P's and Q's in TX because I know they don't mess around down there. Nothing.

Only times I've ever been pulled over for a check were all within 2 hours of home here in KS when hauling bulk, i.e. dumptruck, grain trailer or pneumatic tank.

I wish it was just me, although I've been pulled over plenty since I was a kiddo, only 1 citation (19yo on way to concert) and I was glad it was just for speeding!

It's a recent phenomenon really (at least North Texas). It's as if a few departments have realized it's an untapped revenue source. I've seen numerous transporters get checked, bringing in stuff from Elkhart (especially south of Fort Worth near RV row off 35W). Earlier, this week off NW Loop 820, there was a string of CMV pulling over at least half a dozen vehicles from tractors to rvs and a DRW running with a gooseneck.

I spoke to a few guys I know that are TX LEOs and 1 of them said his department isn't really trained on what to look for and another said they've had some drug busts in RVs so they use spot checks as an excuse to pull over a suspicious vehicle. I've heard from long-haulers that Tennessee is pretty notorious, too.

There was RV that got hit off I20 put west of Fort Worth near Weatherford. He posted citation on Facebook a picture for being over weight and had he RV impounded. Not sure details past that, though. I'm guessing he was really noticeably over.

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[Jacob]

Several cities in dfw have commercial vehicle enforcement. I regularly see them harassing hotshot guys with pickups and goosenecks. I have never seen a camper pulled over.

 

[WEB]

this has never been the case ever its not grounds to be at fault especially if you are within your axle weights

Thanks for the clarification. I'll tell the WA State trooper he's full of ****.

 

[WEB]

Never have i ever seen this it is complete rumour as far as my research has shown me. Even my insurance company said that its not a thing. Heck if you load a minivan with camping gear and the family you are over the payload…

A WA State trooper I spoke with states otherwise.

 

[Brutal_HO]

The 2500 trucks have the coil rear suspension that greatly decreases the amount of payload you'd find in a 3500. You need to subtract that hitch pin weight plus weight of passengers in the truck, gear, fuel, etc from the payload weight. You probably won't have much left, if any at all. And if you're over payload and in a serious accident that's thoroughly investigated, regardless if you're at fault, you're most likely going to be screwed.

To be pedantic, it's not the coil suspension specifically that is a payload limiting factor. Coils vs leafs insofar as load capacity means nothing. Railcars use coils. It's the suspension system as a whole - spring rates, trackbar, mounting, etc. that is the limiting factor.

Mfr stickered GVWR/GCWR could be a limiting factor WRT legal concerns and/or running commercial.

There's always exceptions, but in MOST cases, RAWR will be the realistic limiting factor.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

A WA State trooper I spoke with states otherwise.

Take 5 mins on youtube you will see just how informed most police are with people falsely arrested or ticketed because officers think they know the laws that is rarely the case. Even contacting the DOT usually yeilds opinions rather than the actual laws. The best bet is to read the laws for your self heck you could pay an attorney and get way more accurate results than asking a police officer


For example i was constantly pulled over with my jeep for driving with the doors off to the point i kept a copy of the regulations in the glovebox to show officers they were wrong about the mirror requirement laws.