Are HO Cummins falling out of favor for SO for "22 3500?

[gimmie11s]

I’ll give ya a reason. In my application the aisin doesn’t do much for me 98% of the time. I have a 3500 because of a 5th wheel at 16,000 lbs with a 3800 pin weight. We camp roughly 6-8 times per year. Everything else is just commuting and doing daily chores. Why would I spend $3K more for the aisin? I also hated how it defuels to shift. The 68rfe gave me a much smoother shifting truck that still handles my heaviest application with ease. If I towed heavy all the time then that’s a different story. SO works for me much better.

Makes sense. Is your truck your everyday driver?

Ive owned both transmissions and they shift near identical. "Works much better" is impossible to quantify, other than if you mean the 68 has a higher failure rate than the Aisin--that is pretty easy to quantify. But then again, i wouldnt call that "working much better".

 

[gimmie11s]

lol just asking questions.

I dont see why someone would go through the pain of a rough riding 1 ton to buy the lower powertrain. 2500, of course--but you get a sweet riding truck too and im guessing a lot of people DD their 2500's.. But if youre buying the 3500 and spending big money on a diesel anyway, you really mean to tell me the $3k for the HO/Aisin is a deal breaker?

It just dont add up to me but hey.... different strokes for different folks.

 

[agtcovert]

lol just asking questions.

I dont see why someone would go through the pain of a rough riding 1 ton to buy the lower powertrain. 2500, of course--but you get a sweet riding truck too and im guessing a lot of people DD their 2500's.. But if youre buying the 3500 and spending big money on a diesel anyway, you really mean to tell me the $3k for the HO/Aisin is a deal breaker?

It just dont add up to me but hey.... different strokes for different folks.

I had a 2500 w/o air, and now a 3500 w/o air. I'm waiting on new tires, so I haven't bothered to drop the pressure on the Transcraps, but I don't find the ride that much different anyway. I didn't buy an HD truck (2500 or 3500) to worry that much about ride. Only time I noticed a difference was on a couple mile patch of highway that was worn down by semis, so it was like a paved washboard. That was ... rough.

Agree though, 3k in the grand scheme of things on a truck like this is kind of a big...'meh'. Personal preference is the name of the game.

 

[TWILLIAMS9]

Makes sense. Is your truck your everyday driver?

Ive owned both transmissions and they shift near identical. "Works much better" is impossible to quantify, other than if you mean the 68 has a higher failure rate than the Aisin--that is pretty easy to quantify. But then again, i wouldnt call that "working much better".

I mean it works for me in my application better. I hated how the aisin shifted. I wanted more comfort in my truck as it’s a daily diver and spends 98% of the time not towing. Trust me I wouldn’t own a 1 ton truck if we didn’t own a large fifth wheel. It’s a huge waste of money if not used for intended purpose. I’d rather place the additional expense in appreciating assets rather than a vehicle.

 

[gpattikjr]

lol just asking questions.

I dont see why someone would go through the pain of a rough riding 1 ton to buy the lower powertrain. 2500, of course--but you get a sweet riding truck too and im guessing a lot of people DD their 2500's.. But if youre buying the 3500 and spending big money on a diesel anyway, you really mean to tell me the $3k for the HO/Aisin is a deal breaker?

It just dont add up to me but hey.... different strokes for different folks.

Not everybody's reasons are the same, but 3k is almost the next trim level up for any model. I got pushed into a 3500 because of the seating capacity needed and the lack of payload on the 2500.

 

[TWILLIAMS9]

lol just asking questions.

I dont see why someone would go through the pain of a rough riding 1 ton to buy the lower powertrain. 2500, of course--but you get a sweet riding truck too and im guessing a lot of people DD their 2500's.. But if youre buying the 3500 and spending big money on a diesel anyway, you really mean to tell me the $3k for the HO/Aisin is a deal breaker?

It just dont add up to me but hey.... different strokes for different folks.

Your exactly right when it wasn’t the additional cost of the aisin but why would I pay more for something that I didn’t like. I passed up MANY 3500’s because when I was looking most had the aisin. Took me to going out of California to find the right truck. Finding the truck that matched what I wanted proved slightly difficult.

 

[gpattikjr]

The back seat of our 4 door rubicon is a rougher aggravating ride than the unloaded 5500 at work. If you say they improved the tuning on the asin in the past 5 years, then thats a plus.

 

[gimmie11s]

I had a 2500 w/o air, and now a 3500 w/o air. I'm waiting on new tires, so I haven't bothered to drop the pressure on the Transcraps, but I don't find the ride that much different anyway. I didn't buy an HD truck (2500 or 3500) to worry that much about ride. Only time I noticed a difference was on a couple mile patch of highway that was worn down by semis, so it was like a paved washboard. That was ... rough.

Agree though, 3k in the grand scheme of things on a truck like this is kind of a big...'meh'. Personal preference is the name of the game.

Agree

I mean it works for me in my application better. I hated how the aisin shifted. I wanted more comfort in my truck as it’s a daily diver and spends 98% of the time not towing. Trust me I wouldn’t own a 1 ton truck if we didn’t own a large fifth wheel. It’s a huge waste of money if not used for intended purpose. I’d rather place the additional expense in appreciating assets rather than a vehicle.

I think you would have been happy with the Aisin had it been given the time to learn your driving habits. It is a very docile trans given its capability, to be honest.

What matters is that you enjoy your truck. You really cant go wrong with ANY new HD Ram IMO. They are the best out right now.

Not everybody's reasons are the same, but 3k is almost the next trim level up for any model. I got pushed into a 3500 because of the seating capacity needed and the lack of payload on the 2500.

Which 3500 seats more people than a 2500? Or are you referring to the Mega cab maybe?

Crew cabs and megas seat the same amount of bodies.

 

[gpattikjr]

Which 3500 seats more people than a 2500? Or are you referring to the Mega cab maybe?

Crew cabs and megas seat the same amount of bodies.

I need mega cab for the extra leg room. Which pushes me out of the 2500 into the 3500 because the payload capacity isn't high enough for what i need. Which is why I need to make a decision on HO or So.

 

[TWILLIAMS9]

Agree



I think you would have been happy with the Aisin had it been given the time to learn your driving habits. It is a very docile trans given its capability, to be honest.

What matters is that you enjoy your truck. You really cant go wrong with ANY new HD Ram IMO. They are the best out right now.



Which 3500 seats more people than a 2500? Or are you referring to the Mega cab maybe?

Crew cabs and megas seat the same amount of bodies.

Maybe the trans relearning driving habits would help but as some that have the trans on here still will say is it still isn’t as smooth a shifting trans as the 68rfe. Which I understand why it’s not, it’s built to tow. My wife already doesn’t like the way our truck rides as it is, it would add more fuel to the “this things rides like ****”. Well hun it’s what’s required to tow the fifth wheel lol.

 

[Southernspeed]

I wanted to trade my '16 2500 6.4 hemi for a diesel. I'd heard/read that the '21 3500 was hard riding with a hard shifting Aisin too. I drove a 2500 so/68 and although a quiet comfortable ride I really didn't like the shifting and throttle response. The salesman talked me into driving a 3500 dually HO/Aisin. I was amazed at the ride quality, power and shifting. It made my Hemi 2500 feel like an old dust cart. And when you tow heavy with it, it really shines. I regularly tow 14-16000 pound and the truck doesn't even act like it's there (although the fuel mileage does!) Drop it into tow haul with full exhaust brake when towing and any down grade is no big deal and your brakes get a vacation. I know they cost more initially but (unless you truly need a 4500 5500 commercial ) you'll never outgrow a 3500 where as you may one day need 'more' than your SO/68 can offer (IMHO)

 

[zach@granger]

For what its worth, Here is what I see for a sales history within 250 miles of our store.
32% High Output
68% Standard
To be fair the high output engine has a higher take rate on Laramie trim and higher and our local sales mix is skewed towards the tradesman, big horn trims.


As far as available inventory in dealer stock within 1000 miles of our store. 1099 are high output, 1215 are standard output engines.

Hope that helps.

 

[Brewbud]

Both trans do learn your driving habits. I love the way my 68rfe shifts. It gets driven with a heavy foot. It will eventually get a trans tune too. Something you can't do with the Aisin.

 

[Herrred]

To My fellow Brother and Sisters of HD: As the original subject line indicates, the intent of the discussion was to discuss the reasons for the seemingly icreasing availability of SO powerplants vs the HO in the '22 3500.

How in the hell did we get so deep into the suspension discussion? There's a ton of butt-hurt in this thread and none of it relating to the subject matter.

[mod: thread split]

 

[BigRigWrecker]

I just traded a 20, 2500 limited mega cab with air suspension on a 22 3500 longhorn mega cab srw HO without air suspension.
I would have kept the 2500, but came across the right deal on the color/trim I wanted when I bought the first one… and I always worried that I would regret the full air rear end in the 2500 some day… and I don’t like modifying the appearance of my cars and I hated the chrome clad pockets on the limited wheels.
I do a lot of driving and to the same places… MPG is exactly 1 mpg lower not towing on the highway (18.6 v’s 19.6 running 85 ish through hilly areas), but the same in town. Towing it may be slightly better with the HO pulling 12k lbs.
the ride is firmer… and it can be a bit harsh on bad roads… but I always felt like the air bag rear end in the 2500 was too floaty and unpredictable on bad dips or potholes at highway speed… I loved it though for trailering and 99% of the time for ride.
The one thing I didn’t anticipate was how much I would notice the difference in the HO power unloaded… and particularly pulling. I pulled a 30 foot enclosed trailer to Michigan a couple years ago full of snow mobiles… and the 2500 SO felt capable, but there were times when I would be passing, that I really needed more juice. The HO on the other hand feels like I could get myself in trouble even…pulling, it runs significantly more boost… all the time, and it never feels taxed. Might be the Asian, might be the power, but it doesn’t feel like it’s in the wrong gear as often as the 68rfe at low speeds and up and down hills.
The up and downside of the 1 ton for me is towing capacity… I like them long and loaded up so it crushes the payload and towing.
the limited 2500 mega cab had under 14k max… the one ton is just over or under 21k… but with the 12,300 gvw, and a trailer with two 7k axels… my combined is in CDL territory. In other words, the 2500 was not “rated” to pull the 14k gvw trailer, and I’m not rated to pull it with my one ton‍♂️ (26,300 combined)
I wish they would offer the 3500 with a 12000 gvw option.
The other thing no one discusses is the anticipated life of the HO v’s. the SO… the SO is supposed to have a 10% “failure” rate at 350k miles… where the HO is supposed to have a 10% failure rate at 250k miles… I’m not sure how Cummins calculates that or what that failure looks like… I.e. turbo or head gaskets, or worse… but it means the HO may require major repairs on third sooner.
I believe the SO runs 19/1 compression v’s. 16/1 for the HO which means the HO is probably working the SCR / DPF systems harder since they are less efficiently burning the fuel. I’d be interested to know what a propane injection would do for that.
Ok… and last thing re upfront cost… although the HO is 2k ish more than the SO apples to apples in a 3500… the 3500 seems to be cheaper to option… the option packages are structured differently, and I assume the 3500 is a good bit cheaper from a chassis perspective since the coil spring rear end is significantly more complicated. My 3500 HO was less than a 2500 SO I found with the same options/trim by a couple dollars in spite of the 2k premium for the HO.
Apparently the insurance company likes the new one better too… rates dropped 500 a year… biggest differences I can think of is the new one does not have a sun roof or Air suspension. Both have all the safety and camera voodoo magic and pacing auto cruise etc. so not sure if it’s a 3500 v’s. 2500 thing with the actuaries, or it is a cost to repair thing due to the suspension set up etc.
apologies for the brain dump, but this is all stuff I wanted to know when I made the switch.

 

[jebruns]

Old thread you woke up here. But I'm glad you're happy with your HO. Just wanted to say that a same year 2500SO will be have a lower MSRP than a 3500HO if they do indeed have the "same options". I priced out several combinations of both before ordering my new truck (thought I might want to go 3500 for a while). The 1 ton with the same options always had a higher MSRP.

 

[Nd79]

All good points. It's also worth noting that a 3500 can be optioned with the SO or the HO.

 

[MEGA HO]

lol just asking questions.

I dont see why someone would go through the pain of a rough riding 1 ton to buy the lower powertrain. 2500, of course--but you get a sweet riding truck too and im guessing a lot of people DD their 2500's.. But if youre buying the 3500 and spending big money on a diesel anyway, you really mean to tell me the $3k for the HO/Aisin is a deal breaker?

It just dont add up to me but hey.... different strokes for different folks.

It's good to have options. 1500 / 2500 / 3500 srw / 3500 drw... SO / HO...
Some folks are of the opinion that a 3500 has to be DRW, my buddy made a funny face and told me that. Well I have no need for a DRW and my HO SRW can tow more than the SO DRW but it has less payload than SO DRW.
I'm glad for all the options and that I got my truck before the pandemic and all the chip shortages and resulting sacked options.