Another tire discussion - snow/wet road performance

[LateToTheParty]

I'm going to throw a different name out there, the Nokian Outpost AT. It's not super aggressive looking, the compound I believe is a bit softer but if SNOW and wet performance in an AT is what you're looking for I doubt you'll find better. They are 3-peak rated. They are also a very lightweight tire probably due to lack of aggressive sidewall and extra rubber. Nokian is a Finnish company and I believe their tires are made in Finland. Anyways if there's going to be a brand/company that I trust or would expect to understand the dynamics of winter driving it's probably going to be a from Nordic country. Their dedicated winter tires have an outstanding reputation.

Nokian Tyres Outpost AT - Extend your adventures / Nokian Tires

The Nokian Tyres Outpost AT offers supreme traction in all conditions, extreme durability and puncture resistance, and increased service life so drivers can extend their terrain, toughness and travel.

www.nokiantires.com

However of your list of 4 only the Falken AT3W is worthy of your consideration in snow/wet performance. The Nitto's and BFG I would absolutely cross off the list. I think your list should include the Falken AT3W, Toyo Open Country AT3, and the Nokian Outpost AT. That would probably be my top 3 with Nokian as the likely best performing one for your use.

The biggest those come in that would work for the 20" wheels the OP desires are the 305/55R20 which are a far cry from the 37s which were asked about.

These may be an option for someone looking to stick with stock or similar sizing, but for the rest of us, they're not a viable option.

 

[wensearam]

Nothing beats a snow tire in winter (snow and rain) running Bridgestone Blizzak LT in 275/70R18, sadly that is the largest size they make in a high load snow (2019 crew diesel). Have had 3 peaks AT's in the past on diff trucks and still go back to snows once we have consistent snow on the roads, however planning to try it again this year (mostly for the looks and the snows are on their third season!!) debating 35/12.5R18, 295/70R18 or 285/75R18 in Falken AT3W. Future plans are to get some wider wheels (no wider than a +12).

 

[Dave01]

I don't quite agree. I'm a fan of snows in cars and lighter trucks. But once you move up to E rated tires my experience has been that good quality 3 peak A/T's are pretty much a match for snows. I assume it's the heavier load rating and more rigid sidewalls that even the playing field, not sure. Just speaking from my driving in New England winters.

 

[LikeABoss]

I’ve ran the ridge graps and most recently the toyo at3 in 37. Toyos were better on snow and ice IMO. I’m going to be a guinea pig for one I’d never heard of until looking for a 40 that’s not 15.5 wide for my 5500. Turns out, Maxxis makes a 40x13.5 with a 3 peak snow rating. Who knew? The very limited reviews seem promising. Now I just need the truck to show up…

Next to a 37 toyo RT

 

[AH64ID]

I don't quite agree. I'm a fan of snows in cars and lighter trucks. But once you move up to E rated tires my experience has been that good quality 3 peak A/T's are pretty much a match for snows. I assume it's the heavier load rating and more rigid sidewalls that even the playing field, not sure. Just speaking from my driving in New England winters.

Having driven the same truck with new AT3 XLT 3PMSF tires and General Arctic LT’s I can tell you that there is a distinct difference. The snow tires do out preform the 3PMSF AT’s in snow/ice.

That’s on my dads truck, I don’t feel the need to
have a separate set of snow tires…. But they are better in the winter.

Nothing beats a snow tire in winter (snow and rain) running Bridgestone Blizzak LT in 275/70R18, sadly that is the largest size they make in a high load snow (2019 crew diesel). Have had 3 peaks AT's in the past on diff trucks and still go back to snows once we have consistent snow on the roads, however planning to try it again this year (mostly for the looks and the snows are on their third season!!) debating 35/12.5R18, 295/70R18 or 285/75R18 in Falken AT3W. Future plans are to get some wider wheels (no wider than a +12).

You will find that a wider AT will definitely have lower snow/ice performance than a skinnier snow tire. Some of the difference can be compensated for with tire pressure, but it will still be more noticeable the wider you go.

 

[Dave01]

I’ve ran the ridge graps and most recently the toyo at3 in 37. Toyos were better on snow and ice IMO. I’m going to be a guinea pig for one I’d never heard of until looking for a 40 that’s not 15.5 wide for my 5500. Turns out, Maxxis makes a 40x13.5 with a 3 peak snow rating. Who knew? The very limited reviews seem promising. Now I just need the truck to show up…

Next to a 37 toyo RT

Man those are huge! Make sure you have a couple of friends over to help put them on the truck.

Like AH64ID said, huge and wide aren't the way to go for snow/ice performance, but sometimes weight and stance help with that.

 

[wensearam]

Having driven the same truck with new AT3 XLT 3PMSF tires and General Arctic LT’s I can tell you that there is a distinct difference. The snow tires do out preform the 3PMSF AT’s in snow/ice.

That’s on my dads truck, I don’t feel the need to
have a separate set of snow tires…. But they are better in the winter.



You will find that a wider AT will definitely have lower snow/ice performance than a skinnier snow tire. Some of the difference can be compensated for with tire pressure, but it will still be more noticeable the wider you go.

on ice more thread is good so wider tire will help if its a snow rated rated tire, full muds forget about it!!!), however on snow its the reverse and actually muds work here as well...yep, always a total conundrum...hence why I run stock size snows (max size in Blizzak LT) in winter (now I wish they made them a little wider and taller)!!!

 

[wapitispokes]

I have ran BFG KO/KO2's (33's and 35's) on RAM trucks since 2004 and have had great luck with them. I ordered new wheels and tires for my 2023 3500 CC SRW Limited, BFG were out of stock so I went with Nitto Ridge Grapplers, lots of good reviews but....after researching more it appears they may not be so good on snow/wet roads, I should have done the research before but it is not too late. So here is my situation and questions.

I spend 6 months out of the year in New England during the winter so depending on the weather I can spend time driving on snow covered roads (highway and back roads) so snow performance is important to me. I also spend time driving between NE and NC so I can get caught up in heavy rain storms, so wet road traction is also important. Other then Sand beaches and some gravel roads I don't go "off roading".
I will be mounting 37x12.5x20 on Fuel Assaults with a 20 offset. I want to buy the wheels and tires from the same place to avoid any finger pointing if there are balance issues.

I have narrowed it down to 4

1. Nitto Ridge Grapplers - I have these on order but can back out and change if needed.
2. Nitto Recons - From what I have read they seem like they have a leg up on the Ridge Grapplers in terms of wet/snow traction.
3. Falken Wildpeaks AT3W - This was suggested to me by one of the dealers who were out of BFG's but said they are great wet/snow traction tires.
4. BFG KO2 - I like them but I heard that the larger sizes (37") can have balancing issues. not sure if that is true.

I am looking for feedback from folks that have experience with the first three options above specifically with wet/snow performance. Also any real world experience with the BFG KO2 in the 37x12.5X20 with balancing. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little late to the party here, but thought I'd add in my experience with the Nitro Ridge Grapplers. I live in the Seattle WA region and regularly drive over Snoqualmie Pass in the winter to bird hunt and other activities. My tires are not exposed to high temperatures and must offer good wet pavement traction. Mine were/ are 255/80/R17. E Rated. 33.3 inches tall "pizza cutters".

I ran the Nitto RG's on a 2005 4Runner heavily loaded. I'm on my second set but don't expect to buy a third.

Personally, I would AVOID the Nitto RG as a winter tire.

Positives: Quiet for the first two years and good perceived traction in mixed DRY conditions. By the end of year three they hardened up like "hockey pucks" and were not reliable on wet paved corners - and I'm sure would have been scarier on snow or ice.

Since I run a dedicated snow tire I bought another set of NRG's this year and I am happy with them while they are still new and soft.

The new set was night and day better than the "retired" 3 year old set.

The wear mileage on the tires was not very good either, but since they got "hard" in three years and I don't drive a ton of miles, that doesn't matter much to me. Absolutely no way would I recommend that tire as a winter snow tire. To be clear, I do like the tire for summer and off-road but probably won't purchase a 3rd set. In contrast, my winter tires were a set of Toyo "blizzak equivalents". After TEN full years of low mileage use, they were still "soft" and provided good snow traction and had remaining tread. I retired them after last winter simply due to their life.

 

[Wanderlust073]

I had Wildpeaks on my 1500. They replaced the stock Goodyear's that were the worst tire I've ever run on anything. The Wildpeaks were awesome. They wore well, were quiet and never gave me any issues. At 55k they were slightly under half tread. My gripe was their snow performance. Maybe my expectations were too high but that truck was worthless in 2wd. They were better than the factory Goodyear's but that isn't saying much at all. Now my 2500 with transforce HTs climbed the same snow covered driveway with ease in 2wd. This has me thinking that Wildpeaks will not be my next tire.

Wow talk about an outlier experience. I switched from KO’s (hockey pucks on anything not dry) to Falkens and have run them on a Jeep, a 1500 and a 2500 across seven years of mountain weather all seasons, nasty as it can get. They would have to majorly screw up to get me looking elsewhere at this point.

 

[Dave01]

I'm a little late to the party here, but thought I'd add in my experience with the Nitro Ridge Grapplers. I live in the Seattle WA region and regularly drive over Snoqualmie Pass in the winter to bird hunt and other activities. My tires are not exposed to high temperatures and must offer good wet pavement traction. Mine were/ are 255/80/R17. E Rated. 33.3 inches tall "pizza cutters".

I ran the Nitto RG's on a 2005 4Runner heavily loaded. I'm on my second set but don't expect to buy a third.

Personally, I would AVOID the Nitto RG as a winter tire.

Positives: Quiet for the first two years and good perceived traction in mixed DRY conditions. By the end of year three they hardened up like "hockey pucks" and were not reliable on wet paved corners - and I'm sure would have been scarier on snow or ice.

Since I run a dedicated snow tire I bought another set of NRG's this year and I am happy with them while they are still new and soft.

The new set was night and day better than the "retired" 3 year old set.

The wear mileage on the tires was not very good either, but since they got "hard" in three years and I don't drive a ton of miles, that doesn't matter much to me. Absolutely no way would I recommend that tire as a winter snow tire. To be clear, I do like the tire for summer and off-road but probably won't purchase a 3rd set. In contrast, my winter tires were a set of Toyo "blizzak equivalents". After TEN full years of low mileage use, they were still "soft" and provided good snow traction and had remaining tread. I retired them after last winter simply due to their life.

Are you sure the rubber got "hard"? I would guess what really happened is there was enough wear on them to get down to a point where you no longer had sipes working in your favor. I haven't heard of tire rubber compounds hardening over a several year period of time. Certainly any tire once it wears to half it's tread feels harder and doesn't handle wet or snow as well as when newer.

 

[wapitispokes]

Are you sure the rubber got "hard"? I would guess what really happened is there was enough wear on them to get down to a point where you no longer had sipes working in your favor. I haven't heard of tire rubber compounds hardening over a several year period of time. Certainly any tire once it wears to half it's tread feels harder and doesn't handle wet or snow as well as when newer.

Hi Dave01: That is a fair question. I am not an expert so you may be correct. The tires had between 9/32 and 10/32 tread remaining and the "new" spec is "16.4" tread depth (presumably that would be 16.4/32. Thus, somewhat less than 50% worn (I had Discount tire measure the tread).

I am all about safety, and unwilling to run a tire that has poor adhesion on wet pavement, so I replaced them.

In speaking with my local off-road shop (Mule) they advised that in their personal experience, their off-road tires perform poorly at about the half tread depth so they replace them at that point.

Here are my Nitto RG tire details:

• Discount Tire measured remaining tread at 10/32 for three tires, 9/32 for one (a tread depth of "16.4" is Nitro's published specification for new tread depth, I think that would be in 32nds of an inch).
• Tire Size: 255 - 80 - 17.
• 24,000 miles on tires. Very Good condition. No flats. Rotated regularly.
• Nitto warranties similar tires for about 55,000 miles. A bit more than 50% tread remaining.

Excerpt from Nitto home page:

LT255/80R17 E 121/118Q	217380	16.4	33.31	10.04	6.5-(7.0)-8.5	3195 @ 80	54.96

 

[Dave01]

I'm definitely not second guessing your decision to change them out, I'm with you, tires have to work well in the conditions you are driving in, if they aren't you need to do something about it.

My experience over the years with various tires on 4wd vehicles, some SUV's but more so on 3/4 ton trucks running in snowy New England conditions is this. Many tires perform well when new, the rate that the performance degrades is usually related to the quality/rating/price of the tires. I put around 25,000 miles a year on my trucks. I tend to buy tires in November, and buy good quality ones, they are great the 1st winter, then the second winter I'm going in with around 25k on them. While not nearly as good as new, they still perform quite well, I get through that winter and then by the next fall I'm hitting 50k and replace them before snow flies. Doesn't always work out the way I plan, but I try to keep to that schedule.

To be honest I never worry about rain very much. My 3/4 ton trucks are heavy with large footprint tires and I've never had hydroplaning problems even on pretty worn down tires, I just think the weight and stance are such that wet weather isn't going to cause me many problems.

So maybe you were just feeling the difference of tires that had worn down some, maybe it was something more than that, but you did the right thing to try a new set.

 

[406Linetrash]

I can tell you the Nitto RG should be very comparable to my Toyo rt’s, and they are coming off before another winter. They are terrible in winter conditions.

 

[ammdrew]

Nitto terra grapplers g2's were really good snow and rain, would go 50- 60k.. they quit making them for rim sizes 20 and above.

Nitto Recon 's are pretty similar, easy 60k on the last set, wore good and worked good through whole life. G2 was a bit better in the wet,

Currently have Toyo's on which are really bad in the wet at 30k , Pretty sure they will get replaced first snow of the year.