Afraid to buy another FCA Vehicle

[BeeLDub]

Hey all!

Factory ordered my first new vehicle back in 2015, it was a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock, and it was a lemon within the first 10k miles.... Didn't get FCA to buy it back, but did get them to extend my warranty to 7yr 125k miles (still using it multiple times a year) as well as pay me a few grand for the struggles. Well, that warranty has less than 3yrs, 40k miles left, and I'm starting to look at what I am buying next.

My girlfriend and I have a bus converted to an RV, and a Polaris RZR. We're starting to outgrow the bus (more and more stuff with less and less space) and although I have yet to try, I'm hesitant to tow the RZR with it long-term. So, with the desire to camp and off-road at the same time, we're planning to sell the bus and buy a 5th-wheel toy hauler, so I'll need a truck.

I've always been back and fourth between Fords and Rams. My parents only owned Fords growing up, and had no issues at all, and after my Jeep experience, I'm hesitant to buy FCA again. Building each and comparing (F-350 Lariat vs 3500 Laramie) there are things about the Ford I prefer, and there are things about the Ram I prefer, but it seems the Ram comes up with much more bang-for-buck.

I know this site will be biased towards Ram, but if you guys/girls are anything like the people on the Jeep forums, you'll also be some of the biggest critics - do Rams suffer from the same lack of quality Jeeps do?

I'm currently pricing out:

• 2020 Ram 3500 Laramie Crew Cab 4x4 6'4" Box
• 6.7l Cummins
• 4.10 axle
• Rear air suspension
• 440amp dual alternators
• Level 1 Equipment
• Cold Weather
• Snow Chief
• 5th wheel prep
• LED Bed light
• Stop lamp w/ cargo cam
• Sun roof
• Aux switches

Any stupid options above? Anything I am missing? I know with Jeep, there are certain options better to go aftermarket, and there are some that are best to get straight from the manuf. After the lemon of a Jeep, I think I want as much to be covered by the warranty as possible.

Also, for Jeeps, 8% below invoice is a common/best deal people are getting. For Rams, it looks like 25% below MSRP is common? Anyone within a few hours of Eastern PA know a good place to start?

Thanks in advance for any/all help!

 

[DevilDodge]

Welcome. You definitely have priced out a truck that will do what you want. Getting a lemon is always a possibility, but there are so many more people with a good truck than ones with bad ones.

I make things easy on myself, and only purchase RAM trucks so I can not help with the differences in makes, but I would say you are exactly right that ford has things the RAM doesn't and Ram had things the ford doesn't, but alot of people have definitely agreed with you that RAM is the better value(recent sales show this)

I live in Central Pennsylvania and I do not have many likes for the local dealerships. Bedford RAM has been used by a few people I know, and I almost bought from them not to long ago, just decided to go used until I see if RAM brings out a new gas engine and other upgrades before I spend all that cash on a new one.

Good luck with your purchase. We have some threads about camping and offroading adventures, so please share some experiences and future plans.

Thanks for joining us.

 

[Deleted member 80]

It sucks to get a lemon, but I can tell you I started buying Mopars 15 years ago specifically because I had a never-ending string of lemons from Ford, and the Chevy I owned at that time got lemon-lawed. It really is a crap shoot with these over-complicated rolling computers of today.

The other guys can brag all they want about numbers on paper, and drag strip acceleration, but when it comes to real diesel grunt the Cummins stands alone. Period.
I assume you are buying a dually, as 4.10s are not available with SRW. The HO/Aisin is a great towing comination. The cab clearance afforded by a long box is a big plus, not to mention a 50 gal fuel tank.

 

[DevilDodge]

I assume you are buying a dually, as 4.10s are not available with SRW.

• 2020 Ram 3500 Laramie Crew Cab 4x4 6'4" Box
• 6.7l Cummins
• 4.10 axle

I didn't notice that. The SRW doesn't come with 4.10, but I also think the 6'4 bed dually is only available with Mega Cab.

So you may want to look again at your price out as the 4.10 isn't going to be available in the configuration you listed.

 

[BeeLDub]

I didn't notice that. The SRW doesn't come with 4.10, but I also think the 6'4 bed dually is only available with Mega Cab.

So you may want to look again at your price out as the 4.10 isn't going to be available in the configuration you listed.

I assume you are buying a dually, as 4.10s are not available with SRW. The HO/Aisin is a great towing comination. The cab clearance afforded by a long box is a big plus, not to mention a 50 gal fuel tank.

I'm just using the builder online, haven't gone to a dealer yet to build one (I know the website can have issues).

The online builder let me build a SRW and add optional 4.10s. I was hoping not to drive a boat daily, so I'm avoiding DRW, the 8ft bed, and the Mega Cab. I also didn't think the extra $$ for the HO was necessary since the SRW with SO will provide enough to tow almost any 5th wheel toy hauler I would likely ever buy.

But that's why I'm here! Tell me if I'm being stupid about anything. Should I just get DRW (even though it'll mostly be used for daily driving)? Will it be hard to fit a 5th wheel in a 6'-4" bed (my research shows with most modern 5ths, I'll be fine, but may need an adjustable hook-up)? I'm trying to balance my 95% DD with my 5% towing (if that). Is a 3500 stupid for me all together (don't tell me that)?

 

[Deleted member 80]

3500 is the way to go, for sure. SRW vs DRW is a matter of hitch weight. Toy haulers get heavy in a hurry. Long box avoids the hassle of a slider hitch, and the possibility of breaking your rear window and/or damaging the cab. My buddy, who is a very experienced RVer, knocked the rear window out of his new shortbox Chevy this Summer while trying to maneuver out of a parking lot while on the way to Wyoming. You may not need the added oomph of the HO Cummins, but the Aisin is the trans to get for pulling.

 

[DevilDodge]

Seeing 5th wheel and 3500 in the same sentence was refreshing.(after many conversations with 5th wheel and 1500)

You built out a truck that will be very well equipped to pull a 5th wheel, and yes there are plenty of options for hauling one with 6'4 bed.

I personally will not own anything but an 8 foot bed again(except Powerwagon), but that is personal preference.

But yes a dually will be a bit much for daily driving. Especially at 95%

I agree about the Aisin trans and the HO but also feel you will be just fine with the standard output for what you will use the truck.

 

[ahhhr]

I figured, I spending that much on a truck, I may as well get the HO. The Aisin sealed the deal for me. Not that much $ more.
I don't even need that much capability (yet) but I'm not f'n around on this one.

 

[ahhhr]

FWIW - I also got the SRW, 6'4" bed.
You lose a bit of payload with the short bed.

 

[MEZZ2006]

I'm currently pricing out:

• 2020 Ram 3500 Laramie Crew Cab 4x4 6'4" Box
• 6.7l Cummins
• 4.10 axle
• Rear air suspension
• 440amp dual alternators
• Level 1 Equipment
• Cold Weather
• Snow Chief
• 5th wheel prep
• LED Bed light
• Stop lamp w/ cargo cam
• Sun roof
• Aux switches

Looks like a pretty nice build! I had debated Ford and Ram when I started looking, but after driving and sitting in a 2018 Ram vs a 2019 Ford, I was 90% sold on the Ram, when I finally drove a 2019 Ram HD, I was 100% sold. I felt the interior of the ram was much higher quality than the Ford. The 3500 is the way to go unless you are in a state that penalizes you for the higher GVWR of a 3500. I have the 6' 4" box and pull an older 5th wheel using an Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Hitch, I do have to watch how tight I turn, but haven't had any issues yet. If we had a newer camper, I don't think we would have a problem getting a 90degree turn out of our set-up.
A couple things I see: Aux Switches should be included in the Snow Chief package. I would consider the Bed Utility group, it includes the bedlights, a retractable bed step (super helpful) and the spray in bed liner. I would also consider the Tow Tech package and the Safety package. Surround View camera is great for those tight parking spots, as are the side cameras for blind side backing of a trailer, and the Adaptive Cruise is really nice on the highway.

 

[hutchman]

Looks like a good truck, but.... I just tried to order a a SRW diesel with 4.10s, and it let me. I don't believe that is correct. A SRW diesel could not be ordered with 4.10s, but the website does allow it now. It will be interesting to see if the dealership can get it through that way.

One thing to be aware of.... Make certain that the truck you order is capable of carrying the pin weight of the 5th wheel. I towed a 13,500# 5th wheel with a SRW 3500 Ram a couple of years ago. Loaded, I was within 400# of the GVWR and about 200# of the RAWR. That was a tradesman which had few options. It was pretty light for a 3500.

I used to drive GM products, but have been driving Ram trucks for the last 7 or 8 years. I have had zero issues with any of my trucks. Now I have owned 8 new trucks in that time.....I trade often. There are those who would say that when buying new, you have no problems. But I think most issues manifest themselves early in life rather than later. Obviously things wear out as they age, but most production issues happen. early. My opinion of course.

I think you stand a chance to get a Lemon with any new vehicle and I don't think Ram is any better or worse than the others.

But, if you do get a real lemon form any brand, it is miserable for you.

I hope you choose Ram and I hope it turns out to be your dream truck!

 

[BeeLDub]

Looks like a pretty nice build! I had debated Ford and Ram when I started looking, but after driving and sitting in a 2018 Ram vs a 2019 Ford, I was 90% sold on the Ram, when I finally drove a 2019 Ram HD, I was 100% sold. I felt the interior of the ram was much higher quality than the Ford. The 3500 is the way to go unless you are in a state that penalizes you for the higher GVWR of a 3500. I have the 6' 4" box and pull an older 5th wheel using an Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Hitch, I do have to watch how tight I turn, but haven't had any issues yet. If we had a newer camper, I don't think we would have a problem getting a 90degree turn out of our set-up.
A couple things I see: Aux Switches should be included in the Snow Chief package. I would consider the Bed Utility group, it includes the bedlights, a retractable bed step (super helpful) and the spray in bed liner. I would also consider the Tow Tech package and the Safety package. Surround View camera is great for those tight parking spots, as are the side cameras for blind side backing of a trailer, and the Adaptive Cruise is really nice on the highway.

Yeah, I've been seeing that about the two truck interiors. Just from looking at the online builder, you can tell the Ford interior isn't as nice, and although it has been a little while since I've been in either, I can say I remember the Rams being nicer.

I'll probably get something like the Demco Auto Slide, love the reviews and videos I've seen on it so far.

You are correct, Aux are included with the Snow.

I do like the idea of the bed steps, but not the spray in bed-liner in the Bed Utility group. Aftermarket liners are so much better because the right installer puts much more prep work into the bed. I can buy the steps, or something like them, afterwards.

I have since dropped the stand alone cargo cam for the Tow Tech pack after reading more about it! I'm excited for that!

The Safety Group comes with:

Power heated folding memory mirrors (already in Tow Tech)​

Exterior Mirrors w/ memory (already in Tow Tech)​

Power adjustable convex aux mirrors (already in Tow Tech)​

Mirror mounted aux reverse lamps (already in Tow Tech)​

Automatic high beams (already in Level 1)​

Rain sensitive wipers (don't want)​

So all I really get in that is:

Blind spot cross path detection​

Full speed forward collision warning​

Adaptive cruise control​

Unless the package is discounted since most of it already comes in other groups (which I am sure it is, but I haven't seen an order guide - online builder is never 100% accurate) I don't think it's worth the price, and those last 3 are by no means must haves to me. The Adaptive Cruise is the most tempting, but having not had that in any other vehicle, I'm not exactly craving it.

​

Looks like a good truck, but.... I just tried to order a a SRW diesel with 4.10s, and it let me. I don't believe that is correct. A SRW diesel could not be ordered with 4.10s, but the website does allow it now. It will be interesting to see if the dealership can get it through that way.

One thing to be aware of.... Make certain that the truck you order is capable of carrying the pin weight of the 5th wheel. I towed a 13,500# 5th wheel with a SRW 3500 Ram a couple of years ago. Loaded, I was within 400# of the GVWR and about 200# of the RAWR. That was a tradesman which had few options. It was pretty light for a 3500.

I hope you choose Ram and I hope it turns out to be your dream truck!

Coming from the Jeep world, I know a lot about gearing, and I want the 4.10s. If I can't order them, I'll get the later, but I'd prefer them to come stock.

Yeah, I've looked at most 5th wheels we would likely buy, since that's a few years out, and we will be fine. But truck comes first, and I am not willing to go DRW since it'll be my DD, so we will have to find a 5th that falls within our truck's towing abilities.

I've pretty much already chose Ram, l too hope it goes well!

 

[LaneC]

You can get the 6'4" or 8" in a crew.

All good options, although I don't think Id do the coldweather unless you want the grille cover.

Alternators, that's a whole lot of juice. You know better than anyone what you use, but that's just a whole lot. I almost never see anyone order a truck with that much electricity....

Some of the best money you can spend when ordering a truck in my opinion are getting the appropriate gears in the axles and upgrade the tires, from the factory.

 

[BeeLDub]

You can get the 6'4" or 8" in a crew.

All good options, although I don't think Id do the coldweather unless you want the grille cover.

Alternators, that's a whole lot of juice. You know better than anyone what you use, but that's just a whole lot. I almost never see anyone order a truck with that much electricity....

Some of the best money you can spend when ordering a truck in my opinion are getting the appropriate gears in the axles and upgrade the tires, from the factory.

I like the idea of the heater and the cover. I likely won't need the cover too often, but I rather have and not need, than need and not have.

Honestly, I probably don't even need the extra alternator, I just thought it was a cheap enough option that it would be nice to have. But I really don't plan on running much more than a few lights, plus powering the 5th wheel lights when needed, which is minimal. The dual alternators are probably meant more for people consistently running winches or other equipment with large draws, which I am not. Removed!

I definitely want the 4.10 gears. I've learned a lot about gearing from my Jeep life, and I would prefer this come from the factory with the correct gearing. I'm honestly kind of disappointed 4.10 is as high as I can go, but I know those will be plenty for a while.

The snow chief group is only allowing LT275/70/R18E On/Off road tires (firestone destination). How are these tires? I learned (after the fact) that I could have swapped my stock Rubicon tires from day one when I bought it, at no charge, had I contacted the tire manuf right away, so I definitely want to know if that's something I would want to try with this truck. Even if the tire manuf won't help, the dealership will usually help a little cost.

 

[LaneC]

Order option TCP, much cheaper and itll get you those tires for a couple hundred bucks... Theyre a heck of a lot better tire than what you get stock but they are geared somewhat more toward dirt and gravel than paved roads, so theyre going to make a little more noise and ride a little different. It's by no means an offroad tire thats going to drive you insane listening to it though. One of the better buys....

TCP​	LT275/70R18E OWl On/Off Road Tires

 

[BeeLDub]

Order option TCP, much cheaper and itll get you those tires for a couple hundred bucks... Theyre a heck of a lot better tire than what you get stock but they are geared somewhat more toward dirt and gravel than paved roads, so theyre going to make a little more noise and ride a little different. It's by no means an offroad tire thats going to drive you insane listening to it though. One of the better buys....

TCP​	LT275/70R18E OWl On/Off Road Tires

Yeah, those are the tries that already come with the Snow Chief group, which I want. I'm used to a noisy jeep with noisy MTs, so I have no concerns with these.

 

[MEZZ2006]

The On/Off Road tires are Firestone Transforce AT's, they are not noisy at all, but they are a pretty crappy AT tire. From what I have read though they are better than the base tires. I am assuming since you are getting the cold weather group, you live where there is snow, we just got our first snow here in Wisconsin and the factory AT's are terrible with even a dusting. I want to swap them out, but will probably just run them this winter and replace next year because I'm cheap and it kills me to swap out "new" tires.

 

[LaneC]

I wish they would give us a few more options straight from the factory on tires. I understand why they dont give the option for a really aggressive tire, but if the customer understands what they're signing up for, it shouldnt be to much of an issue.

 

[BeeLDub]

The On/Off Road tires are Firestone Transforce AT's, they are not noisy at all, but they are a pretty crappy AT tire. From what I have read though they are better than the base tires. I am assuming since you are getting the cold weather group, you live where there is snow, we just got our first snow here in Wisconsin and the factory AT's are terrible with even a dusting. I want to swap them out, but will probably just run them this winter and replace next year because I'm cheap and it kills me to swap out "new" tires.

I wish they would give us a few more options straight from the factory on tires. I understand why they dont give the option for a really aggressive tire, but if the customer understands what they're signing up for, it shouldnt be to much of an issue.

I know with Jeeps, the old JK Rubicons came with BFG KM tires (mud terrain) and they SUCKED in rain and packed snow. But GREAT in mud and deep snow. I enjoyed them for the first 2 years when I was taking it off road most often, but once they started wearing down, I could not wait to get KO2 tires (all terrain). Night and day difference when you use them to DD 95% of the time. A year or so after I got my Jeep, someone on the forums reported calling BFG just before they took delivery of their Jeep, told them the did not want the KM tires because they felt unsafe, and BFG swapped them for KO2 tires at no cost (I think, maybe charged shipping).

I'll have to do more research on on/off road tires before I order, but maybe I can try the same with Firestone, assuming Firestone makes a better on/off road tire that is suited for a HD truck.

 

[LaneC]

Im not so sure it is still around, but Firestone, Bridgestone actually use to make a Dueller MT, AT and HT. This was the best lineup of tires of all time in my opinion. the Dueller MY was wonderful for general use off the road, the AT was pretty good for very very light off road use and the HT's would last forever on the freeway. I wish you could still get this line up as it was 20 years ago. The MT was a lot like the old Mud Terrain BFG tire, however if I recall correctly, and I may be recalling incorrectly, they were a littled heavier duty(a couple more ply) than the BF Goodrich tire.

Having the right tire on any heavy duty or solid front axle vehicle is very important, even more so when its a heavy vehicle with a solid front. I suspect that good looking but incorrect tires are the cause of a fairly rare phenomenon that happens on solid front axle trucks and scares the life out of people...