5th Wheel brakes SUCK! Help please.

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Hmmm. My 12K GVWR 5th wheel will smoke tires on asphalt set on light electric over 7-8.

I run it at LE at around 5 (as I recall). I'll be hooking up Sunday check everything again. I can very much feel it rolling to a stop and feel when it releases. I generally back it down a bit tootling around the neighborhood.

I ran at HE around 3.5 and it was too abrupt.

Most i tow are around 4-5 aswell on light electric

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Thanks for the suggestion. They are self-adjusting and I can't turn any of the wheels when the brakes are engaged. They all work, just not strong enough

You trying to turn them is not enough the trailer has quite a bit more weight behind it than you lol

 

[AF_Hemi]

You trying to turn them is not enough the trailer has quite a bit more weight behind it than you lol

Did that post really make me look that stupid? I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me. I thought you were trying to tell me to turn the wheels to see if the brakes work. I did and they do. Obviously the trailer has more force than I can make with my hands, but if all I'm trying to prove is the trailer brakes work, I've done that in many other ways too.

 

[Nick]

Based on my experience you need to burn the brakes in . Same experience when I had new shoes . The best thing you can do is a Disc brake conversion. They have complete kits that you can self install. Best thing you can do with a trailer over 10 k . They will stop you much better than electric drum ever will . Very low maintenance . You can just throw all that electrical crap on your axles away . I have had them on my trailer for 7 years and would never have another heavy trailer without them.

 

[AF_Hemi]

Based on my experience you need to burn the brakes in . Same experience when I had new shoes . The best thing you can do is a Disc brake conversion. They have complete kits that you can self install. Best thing you can do with a trailer over 10 k . They will stop you much better than electric drum ever will . Very low maintenance . You can just throw all that electrical crap on your axles away . I have had them on my trailer for 7 years and would never have another heavy trailer without them.

I just completed the burn-in yesterday so hopefully that helps. I'd love discs but not in the budget

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Did that post really make me look that stupid? I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me. I thought you were trying to tell me to turn the wheels to see if the brakes work. I did and they do. Obviously the trailer has more force than I can make with my hands, but if all I'm trying to prove is the trailer brakes work, I've done that in many other ways too.

No what i ment is even if they grab they could still need to be adjusted never ment to come across as an a** i would expect them to grab by hand what i was saying for the adjustment is you should feel some minimal drag on the shoes with the brakes NOT energized

 

[AF_Hemi]

No what i ment is even if they grab they could still need to be adjusted never ment to come across as an a** i would expect them to grab by hand what i was saying for the adjustment is you should feel some minimal drag on the shoes with the brakes NOT energized

Gotcha. There's a little drag. I think they're probably adjusted pretty good. I've towed it 1000 miles so far. First 800 I didn't notice anything (didn't have a reason to... first time owning a trailer this size). Then the emergency stop where I honestly should have crashed, but thankfully the shoulder was available. Since then it's been in my head that it doesn't stop fast enough. After lots of reading on various forums, it appears it's not common to be able to lock up RV brakes and they almost always leave you wanting more. Looks like they might be operating as advertised and they just suck.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Gotcha. There's a little drag. I think they're probably adjusted pretty good. I've towed it 1000 miles so far. First 800 I didn't notice anything (didn't have a reason to... first time owning a trailer this size). Then the emergency stop where I honestly should have crashed, but thankfully the shoulder was available. Since then it's been in my head that it doesn't stop fast enough. After lots of reading on various forums, it appears it's not common to be able to lock up RV brakes and they almost always leave you wanting more. Looks like they might be operating as advertised and they just suck.

Fair enough with prices how they are on new trailers you would expect they would not be cutting corners on important things like brakes…

 

[Brutal_HO]

OK, looked at the truck ITBM setting today from my last tow.

LE 4.0 but it was just the mostly empty trailer, probably 10.5K, not the boat. I'll probably have to go up to 5 with the trailer loaded and boat attached (it has surge brakes) so doesn't affect braking much. I lock them out if we're going down steep grades.

 

[AF_Hemi]

OK, looked at the truck ITBM setting today from my last tow.

LE 4.0 but it was just the mostly empty trailer, probably 10.5K, not the boat. I'll probably have to go up to 5 with the trailer loaded and boat attached (it has surge brakes) so doesn't affect braking much. I lock them out if we're going down steep grades.

Yep, I'm jealous. What brand trailer/axles do you have that have such good brakes?

 

[Moochie6903]

I have a 2022 Ram 3500 pulling a 2022 5th Wheel, GVWR is 11k and it has tandem dexter 5k axles with electric drum brakes. In the truck's settings, I'm on Heavy Electric with gain set to 10 and it still won't lock up the trailer brakes. I had an emergency stop the other day and had to pull onto the shoulder to keep from plowing through a couple of cars because I couldn't stop. It didn't even feel like a hard stop. Something isn't right. I don't know what else to check/do. I can't even get the stupid things to lock up on gravel!

I have a 2020 3500 pulling a 5th wheel about 15,000 lbs also. Same thing with my trailer. I have brand new self adjusting brakes on the trailer, and they barely work with the setting on heavy 10. I’ve read that the new Rams have what they call pulse width modulation, and that sometimes doesn’t work well with the brake magnets. I have service scheduled soon and am going to ask about it. Will be watching to see if you find out anything.

 

[Aketay]

if I pick up a trailer with weak brakes, I hold the brake lever until they get more aggressive. The magnet that drags and activates the cam sometimes needs to burnish any paint overspray on the drum. The more friction you have on the magnet make your brakes work better.

 

[AF_Hemi]

I have a 2020 3500 pulling a 5th wheel about 15,000 lbs also. Same thing with my trailer. I have brand new self adjusting brakes on the trailer, and they barely work with the setting on heavy 10. I’ve read that the new Rams have what they call pulse width modulation, and that sometimes doesn’t work well with the brake magnets. I have service scheduled soon and am going to ask about it. Will be watching to see if you find out anything.

Yes, please let me know what they say!

 

[AF_Hemi]

if I pick up a trailer with weak brakes, I hold the brake lever until they get more aggressive. The magnet that drags and activates the cam sometimes needs to burnish any paint overspray on the drum. The more friction you have on the magnet make your brakes work better.

Drove another 300 miles today after a solid burnishing and they still suck. No improvement over pre-burnishing.

 

[Aketay]

I guess I’m a little more abusive than you may be willing to be With your own trailer. The trailers I pull are not my own, I transport from the factory to dealerships. New brakes do suck. Sometimes I hold the manual brake lever until I am satisfied with the drag. When they cool down I set the power to stop the whole rig with the trailer brakes at about 5mph. After that I usually have no problems. Most trailers end up being set from 3.5 to 5.0 by the time I deliver them. It is extremely hard to get them to lock up while hooked to the truck as the brake controller is connected to the ABS and traction control to prevent lockups.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Yep, I'm jealous. What brand trailer/axles do you have that have such good brakes?

2018 Grand Design 303RLS rolling on Dexter 5200lb axles, plain old drums.

 

[AF_Hemi]

2018 Grand Design 303RLS rolling on Dexter 5200lb axles, plain old drums.

That's what I don't get. That's the same axles I have except mine are Torflex instead of standard leaf. But the brakes are the same.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Moochie6903]

Can you feel any tug using the manual lever?

If you put your EVIC on Trailer Brake display, what does it show for power when you press the brake pedal or engage the manual lever?

Will they lock if you pull the emergency cord?

Modern Dexter (drum brake) axles are self-adjusting when you REVERSE. have you tried backing and applying the manual brake control?

It's also possible they over-greased the hubs and blew the seals and greased your brakes. Get it inspected.

View attachment 39225

Some new brakes are forward adjusting. I just put a set on my 5er.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Some new brakes are forward adjusting. I just put a set on my 5er.

You're right an I may have my axles mixed up.

 

[AF_Hemi]

I was content to just let it be, but now I've completely lost my brakes altogether. I confirmed they are adjusted properly, I've done the burnishing. There are two wires going back to the brakes. One is power (tied to blue wire from truck and 12v breakaway) and the other is ground. They both split into a pair of wires to each axle, which then split again to each side of each axle. At that junction, when I pull the breakaway switch I get 11.67v while sitting still, but can still rotate the tire by hand with pretty much the same amount of force as when not engaged. With just the slider and gain set to 10 on heavy electric, i get 8.5v coming out of the trucks 7-pin connection but only 3.64 at the junction of the wires near the axles.


I've ohmed all the wires and there is virtually no voltage drop.

If I'm getting power to the brakes, why aren't they engaging? I can hear them, they just aren't doing anything

Edit: even with gain on 10, the slider will not slow/stop the rig at 5 mph