5th Wheel brakes SUCK! Help please.

[AF_Hemi]

I have a 2022 Ram 3500 pulling a 2022 5th Wheel, GVWR is 11k and it has tandem dexter 5k axles with electric drum brakes. In the truck's settings, I'm on Heavy Electric with gain set to 10 and it still won't lock up the trailer brakes. I had an emergency stop the other day and had to pull onto the shoulder to keep from plowing through a couple of cars because I couldn't stop. It didn't even feel like a hard stop. Something isn't right. I don't know what else to check/do. I can't even get the stupid things to lock up on gravel!

 

[elephantrider]

have you pulled the wheel(s) off and taken a peek at the trailer drums? definitely sounds like a trailer brake issue. check voltage through the system? I'd be finding a rv service center asap.

 

[Dunn08]

It’s brand new, take it back and have them make sure they’re adjusted properly and getting power to them. Easy to learn how to adjust them on YouTube as well, even for future reference. They should grab real hard at 10.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Can you feel any tug using the manual lever?

If you put your EVIC on Trailer Brake display, what does it show for power when you press the brake pedal or engage the manual lever?

Will they lock if you pull the emergency cord?

Modern Dexter (drum brake) axles are self-adjusting when you REVERSE. have you tried backing and applying the manual brake control?

It's also possible they over-greased the hubs and blew the seals and greased your brakes. Get it inspected.

 

[MEGA HO]

Was gonna say the rear drum brakes are self adjusting and to keep pumping your breaks while reversing, but Brutal beat me to it.
But this being a brand new trailer, I'd take it back to the dealer and have them check it

 

[jebruns]

Was gonna say the rear drum brakes are self adjusting and to keep pumping your breaks while reversing, but Brutal beat me to it.
But this being a brand new trailer, I'd take it back to the dealer and have them check it

Not all trailer brakes are self adjusting. I ordered a trailer out a couple of years ago with all the boxes checked. HD Dexter axles were part of the package, and I was assured in email that they were self adjusting brakes. Turned out they were not. But the dealer installed the adjusters for me.

I agree on taking it back. Should not work that way on a '22. But I know the RV service shops are backed up for months right now.

 

[mkmsr]

RV repair shops are backed up for months but regular auto mechanic shops are not. If the only options are to lose your camping season or take it to a mechanic and pay for a repair, I know I would pay for the repair. You can always attempt to get reimbursed later it was not right from the factory.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[AF_Hemi]

Can you feel any tug using the manual lever?

If you put your EVIC on Trailer Brake display, what does it show for power when you press the brake pedal or engage the manual lever?

Will they lock if you pull the emergency cord?

Modern Dexter (drum brake) axles are self-adjusting when you REVERSE. have you tried backing and applying the manual brake control?

It's also possible they over-greased the hubs and blew the seals and greased your brakes. Get it inspected.

View attachment 39225

Whether it's the manual lever or the foot, the result is about the same. Certainly not a tug, but i can feel them engage. It's a gentle stop with no lurch whatsoever at any time including once it comes to a complete stop. On the EVIC it shows 100% brake with foot and manual lever. Hubs are clean -- no grease.

What is the voltage supposed to be and where would I check that? At the 7 pin?

I leave on a 3000 mile trip with the camper on Saturday so don't have time to take it anywhere, but definitely capable of doing a lot myself.

 

[CdnHO]

lf a brand new trailer the brakes take time to seat in. Make sure the trailer has an SAE compatible connector. Ram has a TSB on it (see attached). If you have an ammeter, measure the amp draw of the brakes at the trailer connector. Should be at least ten amps, preferably higher as each magnet draws about three amps but there is voltage loss in the wiring. Anything less than ten indicates a bad magnet or wire. Jack up the trailer and have someone engage the brakes. If you can spin a trailer wheel then that one has a bad magnet or wire. Almost sounds like you don't have all four engaging, Fairly easy to diagnose if you know what you are doing. Good luck.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Whether it's the manual lever or the foot, the result is about the same. Certainly not a tug, but i can feel them engage. It's a gentle stop with no lurch whatsoever at any time including once it comes to a complete stop. On the EVIC it shows 100% brake with foot and manual lever. Hubs are clean -- no grease.

What is the voltage supposed to be and where would I check that? At the 7 pin?

I leave on a 3000 mile trip with the camper on Saturday so don't have time to take it anywhere, but definitely capable of doing a lot myself.

There is the most amazing and complete technical thread on the trailer brakes here:

Brake Controller Troubleshooting/Technical Info

This post is about the brake controller on the 2021 HD Ram. First, my story. Second some reverse engineering and description of the warnings on the dash. Finally, some technical details. I would assume this information would apply to other years in the same generation of truck, but outside of...

hdrams.com

 

[AF_Hemi]

There is the most amazing and complete technical thread on the trailer brakes here:

Brake Controller Troubleshooting/Technical Info

This post is about the brake controller on the 2021 HD Ram. First, my story. Second some reverse engineering and description of the warnings on the dash. Finally, some technical details. I would assume this information would apply to other years in the same generation of truck, but outside of...

hdrams.com

I read through it and although very informative didn't really find anything specifically useful for my issue. I don't get any of those warnings (CTBW/TBD)

As suggested earlier, I got the brakes broken in using Lippert's recommended procedure. All 4 brakes were 380+ degrees and smoking so I know they all work.

While sitting parked, with gain 10 and HE selected, at 100% brake pressure on both slider and brake pedal I get 11.0v measured at the truck 7-pin connection. At 50% it shows 8.2v.

All the wiring looks good and all 4 brakes are functional, just weak.

Edit: also, I DO have the older style connector with the double blades, but don't see how that would be a problem if I'm not getting any of the warning messages.

What else should I check? Dealer isn't an option right now.

 

[CdnHO]

I read through it and although very informative didn't really find anything specifically useful for my issue. I don't get any of those warnings (CTBW/TBD)

As suggested earlier, I got the brakes broken in using Lippert's recommended procedure. All 4 brakes were 380+ degrees and smoking so I know they all work.

While sitting parked, with gain 10 and HE selected, at 100% brake pressure on both slider and brake pedal I get 11.0v measured at the truck 7-pin connection. At 50% it shows 8.2v.

All the wiring looks good and all 4 brakes are functional, just weak.

Edit: also, I DO have the older style connector with the double blades, but don't see how that would be a problem if I'm not getting any of the warning messages.

What else should I check? Dealer isn't an option right now.

The SAE connector has one large flat blade which may carry more amperage. For the price of the connector it is worth a try. I think mine cost 15 bucks on Amazon. Must be something to it or Chrysler wouldn't have taken the time to produce a service bulletin.

 

[AF_Hemi]

The SAE connector has one large flat blade which may carry more amperage. For the price of the connector it is worth a try. I think mine cost 15 bucks on Amazon. Must be something to it or Chrysler wouldn't have taken the time to produce a service bulletin.

I agree about the TSB but figured that was more to solve the fault messages, not necessarily the current, but you could be right.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

jack up a wheel and spin the wheel you should be able to hear/ feel the drum touching the shoes if not then pop the plug out of the backing plate and adjust the star wheel until you start to hear the shoes slightly rub (not dragging) takes about 5 mins per wheel and you will be good to go for your trip

 

[AF_Hemi]

jack up a wheel and spin the wheel you should be able to hear/ feel the drum touching the shoes if not then pop the plug out of the backing plate and adjust the star wheel until you start to hear the shoes slightly rub (not dragging) takes about 5 mins per wheel and you will be good to go for your trip

Thanks for the suggestion. They are self-adjusting and I can't turn any of the wheels when the brakes are engaged. They all work, just not strong enough

 

[Blythkd1]

I've pulled many new campers and never saw one that would lock up the brakes, and certainly not on pavement, usually not on gravel either. I'm not saying that you don't have something wrong but it you had them all smoking, it might be a case of you've got what you've got. I've backed up and pulled up multiple times and delivered many units 1500+ miles and sometimes they feel a little better at the end of the trip but still not strong. If you're feeling something when you apply the trailer brakes, that's pretty typical in my opinion.

First thing I do when I hook up a new RV is make sure my gain is set to 10.0 as some of my trailers that I pull when I'm home have very good brakes so I back the controller gain off. I always pull new RV's with the gain set to 10 and never have too much brakes. How heavy is your camper? I see you mentioned 5k axles so I'm guessing the brakes are no larger than 2 x 12's. I just pulled a triple axle 5th wheel a couple weeks ago that probably had the same axles under it and 6 brakes weren't even doing much. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I've pulled many new campers and never saw one that would lock up the brakes, and certainly not on pavement, usually not on gravel either. I'm not saying that you don't have something wrong but it you had them all smoking, it might be a case of you've got what you've got. I've backed up and pulled up multiple times and delivered many units 1500+ miles and sometimes they feel a little better at the end of the trip but still not strong. If you're feeling something when you apply the trailer brakes, that's pretty typical in my opinion.

First thing I do when I hook up a new RV is make sure my gain is set to 10.0 as some of my trailers that I pull when I'm home have very good brakes so I back the controller gain off. I always pull new RV's with the gain set to 10 and never have too much brakes. How heavy is your camper? I see you mentioned 5k axles so I'm guessing the brakes are no larger than 2 x 12's. I just pulled a triple axle 5th wheel a couple weeks ago that probably had the same axles under it and 6 brakes weren't even doing much. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up.

Thats interesting i have yet to see that but i know some trailers are not as good but i have never had to max them out! That makes me question how good those self adjusters are I know on vehicles they tend to be pretty useless from rusting but i would expect trailers to not have that issue for the most part

 

[Blythkd1]

Thats interesting i have yet to see that but i know some trailers are not as good but i have never had to max them out! That makes me question how good those self adjusters are I know on vehicles they tend to be pretty useless from rusting but i would expect trailers to not have that issue for the most part

I agree, you would expect them to be better, just don't get your hopes up.

And I should have mentioned, my experience has been across 3 different trucks, all with factory brake controllers. A 2012 Chevy, a 2018 Chevy and now my 2022 Ram.

I have not pulled one yet with disc brakes since I upgraded to a truck that should actuate them. I pulled a couple with the 2012 but that generation GM brake controller would not actuate electric over hydraulic brakes. I'm looking forward to pulling one again and I'm optimistic they will have better brakes than the straight electrics.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I agree, you would expect them to be better, just don't get your hopes up.

And I should have mentioned, my experience has been across 3 different trucks, all with factory brake controllers. A 2012 Chevy, a 2018 Chevy and now my 2022 Ram.

I have not pulled one yet with disc brakes since I upgraded to a truck that should actuate them. I pulled a couple with the 2012 but that generation GM brake controller would not actuate electric over hydraulic brakes. I'm looking forward to pulling one again and I'm optimistic they will have better brakes than the straight electrics.

Could be worse the fords unless they changed something will not even work with a standard triaxle unless you use the manual lever on the factory brake controller… on anything with more than 2 braking axles

 

[Brutal_HO]

Hmmm. My 12K GVWR 5th wheel will smoke tires on asphalt set on light electric over 7-8.

I run it at LE at around 5 (as I recall). I'll be hooking up Sunday check everything again. I can very much feel it rolling to a stop and feel when it releases. I generally back it down a bit tootling around the neighborhood.

I ran at HE around 3.5 and it was too abrupt.