4th gen drop in turbo on 5th gen

[GPurcell01]

We aren't sure exactly. It looks like it's in roughly the same location, but we aren't sure if it's going to just drop in, I'm guessing it won't, since none of the big name companies have released drop ins.

Our process is, try and drop it in, adjust downpipe as necessary, adjust manifold if necessary, continue down said path.

Hopefully others will start to release larger drop ins for the 5th gen trucks, but from what I'm hearing with all the guy's I've spoken to, the big issue is getting the turbos, since they are new and a slightly different size most guys can't even get them as they are only being sold to FCA. Same goes for a lot of guys doing 5th gen injectors. Very few shops have any 5th gen injectors, just can't get them.

I will definitely be following along to hear about your findings. Not too many seem to be playing with these trucks...

 

[GPurcell01]

Do you feel studs will really be needed? I know we already have larger ones compared to the 4th gen (12mm to 14mm)

 

[Lift89]

Turbotimeusa.com makes a stage 1 and stage 2 drop in for 2019-22.


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[2500Ram]

So the 5th gen uses a HE300VG? Isn't that an older turbo from the super early 6.7 Cummins?

 

[UglyViking]

Do you feel studs will really be needed? I know we already have larger ones compared to the 4th gen (12mm to 14mm)

On a drop in single, you probably don't need to stud. If you're doing compounds it's still likely to be a requirement. Andy at Firepunk had a second gen swapped 472 and put 100% overs, and if memory serves he didn't have to stud until he went compounds, I'm guessing it's primarily due to the boost coming on lower with the compounds than the larger single.

Turbotimeusa.com makes a stage 1 and stage 2 drop in for 2019-22.


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I hadn't heard of them before, interesting info. I don't know that I'd roll the dice on them as I've not heard of anyone running them, but could just be in my circles.

So the 5th gen uses a HE300VG? Isn't that an older turbo from the super early 6.7 Cummins?

I believe the later 4th gen trucks used a HE300VG, and the early 4th gen used an HE351VE. I can't remember for the life of me what model the 5th gen turbo is, but it's newer and I believe a bit larger.

 

[Lift89]

I have no experience with them. Just another company I found when looking at drop ins. Tater built has some stuff out there. Lees truck on YouTube hit high 700s with his turbo. He has other mods though not just the turbo.


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[GPurcell01]

I believe the later 4th gen trucks used a HE300VG, and the early 4th gen used an HE351VE. I can't remember for the life of me what model the 5th gen turbo is, but it's newer and I believe a bit larger.

Our trucks have the HE300VG

 

[2500Ram]

Our trucks have the HE300VG

What would my 2018 6.7 have used? I thought the new trucks had a bigger turbo compared to the older ones

 

[GPurcell01]

What would my 2018 6.7 have used? I thought the new trucks had a bigger turbo compared to the older ones

The HE351VE as far as I know

 

[GPurcell01]

Just got off the phone with Fleece. There is a difference in the casting so if you wanted a 4th gen turbo to work, you'd need a 4th gen manifold.

 

[GPurcell01]

Bringing this back up to continue the discussion. After poking Fleece some more, they make a Cheetah for the 5th gens but stock is very limited - most likely will have to send in your turbo and they will work on that. Very minimal price difference over the 4th gen Cheetah.

Here's the interesting one - The ATS VFR 4000 Stage 2 turbo is a direct drop in that WILL work in a 4th or 5th gen. So what's the difference?

 

[UglyViking]

Bringing this back up to continue the discussion. After poking Fleece some more, they make a Cheetah for the 5th gens but stock is very limited - most likely will have to send in your turbo and they will work on that. Very minimal price difference over the 4th gen Cheetah.

Here's the interesting one - The ATS VFR 4000 Stage 2 turbo is a direct drop in that WILL work in a 4th or 5th gen. So what's the difference?

The charge air piping looks like it mounts differently for the 5th gen vs 4th gen turbos. We just got our stealth 64 in and it's looking like it will require a 4th gen manifold, downpipe, and charge air pipe. I'm unclear if we can reuse the factory box but I'm hopeful. At this point, the only pros I could see it getting you would be turbos are easier to find and you could potentially run the 4th gen compound kit from ATS and others. This is really only something that matters with emissions on, so I don't expect this to be something that is frequently done.

That ATS turbo isn't listed on their website as working with the 19+ trucks, and from the video that displays it looks like it's still a work in progress. I'm guessing they are using the 5th gen turbo with their modifications.

Stainless diesel makes a 5th gen drop in now as well, their 5 blade series (link). Nice to see.

 

[GPurcell01]

The charge air piping looks like it mounts differently for the 5th gen vs 4th gen turbos. We just got our stealth 64 in and it's looking like it will require a 4th gen manifold, downpipe, and charge air pipe. I'm unclear if we can reuse the factory box but I'm hopeful. At this point, the only pros I could see it getting you would be turbos are easier to find and you could potentially run the 4th gen compound kit from ATS and others. This is really only something that matters with emissions on, so I don't expect this to be something that is frequently done.

That ATS turbo isn't listed on their website as working with the 19+ trucks, and from the video that displays it looks like it's still a work in progress. I'm guessing they are using the 5th gen turbo with their modifications.

Stainless diesel makes a 5th gen drop in now as well, their 5 blade series (link). Nice to see.

Running the compound kit would be a huge benefit to that. I'm glad there are others trying to figure this out.

Awesome. I bookmarked that link.

The ATS turbo - according to a post on their Facebook videos - will work in a 5th gen even though it's not listed as one on the website. Seems like it's all really fudgy but that post came from ATS direct.

 

[UglyViking]

I figured I'd follow up here as things have gotten a bit crazy and we have changed plans at the shop for the time being.

We were originally exploring doing a 4th gen swap so we could do a drop in and also compounds. That said, after talking to a few of the big name companies out there, basically every single one of them has a 5th gen option either finished or being wrapped up. The issue is just sourcing the parts, as I've been told it's still incredibly hard to get the parts right now. I won't name names but one of the injector builders I spoke with said that Bosch won't sell the injectors to the aftermarket for something like 5 years post the change, so we should be coming up on that soon, but if it's similar for the turbos that could be why we are seeing delay. Also could be that this is the continued covid delays.

Anyway, after having talked with so many manufactures we decided to hold off on doing this 4th gen swap. Just doesn't seem like it's worth it to figure out all the parts and manufacture stuff for kits with the actual aftermarket manufactures right around the corner with some of this. (I'm hearing summer and EOY for a lot of stuff)

That said, we were lucky enough to kick off a few conversations that I'm hopeful will be fruitful in the long term for emissions on builds.