4th gen drop in turbo on 5th gen

[UglyViking]

I sorta assume no one will have anything to share here since the performance side of this forum is quiet, but I'll ask.

Has anyone tried swapping their OEM turbo with a stealth 64, fleece cheeta, etc.? I know the manifold is different on the 5th gens, and the compressor side is slightly different on the 5th gen turbo, but I'm not sure what the change is or how it would affect that. Can I purchase a 4th gen drop in and have it swap right over or would I need to buy a 4th gen manifold and downpipe as well?

 

[elephantrider]

doesn't fleece make a drop in upgrade? what are you trying to accomplish...

 

[UglyViking]

doesn't fleece make a drop in upgrade? what are you trying to accomplish...

not for the 5th gen, at least not that I'm able to find. I'm trying to accomplish more power

 

[elephantrider]

I thought fleece had a drop in... I'm on the hunt.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Id be contacting fleece to see if they have anything in the works for a drop in as i think you would have to delete the truck or find away to use the 4th gen dpf/scr because they are different hook up and we all saw your post about keeping the emissions systems

 

[UglyViking]

Id be contacting fleece to see if they have anything in the works for a drop in as i think you would have to delete the truck or find away to use the 4th gen dpf/scr because they are different hook up and we all saw your post about keeping the emissions systems

Everyone says they have something in the works, but no one can give me a timeline. I can, and probably will wait, but I've got buddies who won't so I'm trying to dig up info for them as well. The manifold and downpipe are for sure different on the 5th gen, but that may not matter for swapping a 4th gen turbo. I'm guessing this won't be a simple drop-in since if it was that easy every company would say "our 4th gen drop ins work great!". I'm just not sure what the needs would be. I'd assume that if I bought a 4th gen manifold and made a custom downpipe I'd be set. I guess we will see in a few weeks.

I never claimed that I was going to delete, but I also didn't **** on anyone who is/has deleted. I just see the writing on the wall and am looking for ways to make it better. If I were good with deleting this would be easy as I could second gen swap, and call it a day.

 

[MtnRider]

There is a fair amount of power to be had just in tuning alone. Unless you are going for really big numbers you shouldn't need a turbo. What kind of goals are you looking for?


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[UglyViking]

I've already tuned. I'm looking to slowly build up a truck that is in the 750-1k HP range with emissions on. I myself will probably eventually go with compounds to get some better acceleration but a buddy of mine is planning on a single larger drop in. We are also planning all the supporting mods, trans upgrade, studs, stroked cp3, etc. These new cummins have much stronger pistons and rods, supposedly, so I'm thinking we should be good on the bottom end, but time will tell I guess. I'll prob balance towards the lower side of my numbers as I still want the reliability.

 

[MtnRider]

I've already tuned. I'm looking to slowly build up a truck that is in the 750-1k HP range with emissions on. I myself will probably eventually go with compounds to get some better acceleration but a buddy of mine is planning on a single larger drop in. We are also planning all the supporting mods, trans upgrade, studs, stroked cp3, etc. These new cummins have much stronger pistons and rods, supposedly, so I'm thinking we should be good on the bottom end, but time will tell I guess. I'll prob balance towards the lower side of my numbers as I still want the reliability.

Gotcha. Yeah I think the engine is solid other then studs, transmission will be the biggest weak link for sure. Is anyone getting those number emissions on? I would think you would have a hard time keeping that DPF from clogging in that range? Will be interesting to see where you end up with this.

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[GPurcell01]

Tater built makes a modified stock turbo that goes into the power range you want.

ATS would be another one to call. I know they are at least working on one.

 

[GPurcell01]

I've been doing some research for future reference when my VGT starts acting up.

4th gens have a he351ve turbo. Our trucks have a he300vg. They both are basically the same just slight internal differences from what I've found (the 300vg being the current production obviously)

There is not much out there between the two

 

[UglyViking]

Gotcha. Yeah I think the engine is solid other then studs, transmission will be the biggest weak link for sure. Is anyone getting those number emissions on? I would think you would have a hard time keeping that DPF from clogging in that range? Will be interesting to see where you end up with this.

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The 5th gen trucks have a larger DPF than the 4th gen from everything I can gather, including a larger sized exhaust pipe all the way through from what I'm hearing (I've not confirmed this). The DPF has pretty good flow to support up to 800hp from everything I can read, and as long as I've got enough air I shouldn't be loading up the DPF too much. Injector flow and pattern will have a large part to play here as well.

I've been doing some research for future reference when my VGT starts acting up.

4th gens have a he351ve turbo. Our trucks have a he300vg. They both are basically the same just slight internal differences from what I've found (the 300vg being the current production obviously)

There is not much out there between the two

It's interesting to me that the turbos would be functionally the same layout, if that is the case I wonder why aftermarkets are working on new versions rather than slapping their 4th gen option onto the 5th gen trucks?

 

[GPurcell01]

It's interesting to me that the turbos would be functionally the same layout, if that is the case I wonder why aftermarkets are working on new versions rather than slapping their 4th gen option onto the 5th gen trucks?

I bet it has something to do with housing, connection, or electrical differences.

 

[GPurcell01]

I have not seen any side by side photos of the two. Just what I've found so far from others.

 

[MtnRider]

The 5th gen trucks have a larger DPF than the 4th gen from everything I can gather, including a larger sized exhaust pipe all the way through from what I'm hearing (I've not confirmed this).

I'm 99.9% sure the 5th gens still use a 4" exhaust like the 4th gens. Not sure how different the DPF is?

.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I'm 99.9% sure the 5th gens still use a 4" exhaust like the 4th gens. Not sure how different the DPF is?

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Yup its been factory 4” since the old 3rd gens

 

[GPurcell01]

@UglyViking I want to bring this thread back because I've been eyeing the BD Iron Horn kit. It's a 3rd gen swap but can keep all emissions if wanted. I have not seen anyone do it on a 5th gen yet. Cheaper option too.

You'd lose your exhaust brake but can be added back no issue with their in-line one that is plug-n-play.

 

[UglyViking]

@UglyViking I want to bring this thread back because I've been eyeing the BD Iron Horn kit. It's a 3rd gen swap but can keep all emissions if wanted. I have not seen anyone do it on a 5th gen yet. Cheaper option too.

You'd lose your exhaust brake but can be added back no issue with their in-line one that is plug-n-play.

We are starting this process on my buddies truck. Went with a Stealth 64 drop in, so our plan is to start with that and see how much work it's gonna take to get it in and working. Our current thoughts are that we will have to modify the exhaust downpipe from the turbo, but beyond that are hopeful everything is mostly plug and play. If it does work we are gonna try and build out a few kits if there is interest.

The second, and more costly option, would be to also swap to a 4th gen manifold. The plus side there is that we should (theoretically at least) be able to use some of the compound kits that already exist for the 4th gens. We have some exciting plans for our trucks and I'll be sure to report back with our findings. The real trick is going to be getting enough air, and quick enough, so as to not soot load the DPF and have the SCR constantly heat cycling. Time will tell with how much we can get out of that.

 

[GPurcell01]

We are starting this process on my buddies truck. Went with a Stealth 64 drop in, so our plan is to start with that and see how much work it's gonna take to get it in and working. Our current thoughts are that we will have to modify the exhaust downpipe from the turbo, but beyond that are hopeful everything is mostly plug and play. If it does work we are gonna try and build out a few kits if there is interest.

The second, and more costly option, would be to also swap to a 4th gen manifold. The plus side there is that we should (theoretically at least) be able to use some of the compound kits that already exist for the 4th gens. We have some exciting plans for our trucks and I'll be sure to report back with our findings. The real trick is going to be getting enough air, and quick enough, so as to not soot load the DPF and have the SCR constantly heat cycling. Time will tell with how much we can get out of that.

Woah this is good stuff. Very interested in hearing how that install goes. Still trying to figure out the proper sizing for my application but the more I research, the more I like the simplicity and ease of the BD kit. Would be nice to have a setup utilizing the stock intake. I'm curious about if the exhaust modifications will be necessary.

I thought the turbo was in he same spot compared to a 4th gen but just clocked differently with the new style manifold, no?

 

[UglyViking]

Woah this is good stuff. Very interested in hearing how that install goes. Still trying to figure out the proper sizing for my application but the more I research, the more I like the simplicity and ease of the BD kit. Would be nice to have a setup utilizing the stock intake. I'm curious about if the exhaust modifications will be necessary.

I thought the turbo was in he same spot compared to a 4th gen but just clocked differently with the new style manifold, no?

We aren't sure exactly. It looks like it's in roughly the same location, but we aren't sure if it's going to just drop in, I'm guessing it won't, since none of the big name companies have released drop ins.

Our process is, try and drop it in, adjust downpipe as necessary, adjust manifold if necessary, continue down said path.

Hopefully others will start to release larger drop ins for the 5th gen trucks, but from what I'm hearing with all the guy's I've spoken to, the big issue is getting the turbos, since they are new and a slightly different size most guys can't even get them as they are only being sold to FCA. Same goes for a lot of guys doing 5th gen injectors. Very few shops have any 5th gen injectors, just can't get them.