19+ Lifter Failures

[ironmike]

Yep that’s what I mean.
I think the “smooth” external ones are the most recent iteration, based on the conversations I’ve had with several good techs.

So, in theory, checking which we have & swap to smooth external ones, to prevent possible lifter failures? Or we would need to know precisely which ones were the actual culprits?

 

[CTF2019]

Yep that’s what I mean.
I think the “smooth” external ones are the most recent iteration, based on the conversations I’ve had with several good techs.

Smooth vs ringed is no difference. Read my thread on CF.

They deleted an oiling hole on the newer lifters, but the real problem is the wobble because of the small key. I still hear weird noises on my new solid Cummins rollers and only time will tell if they also kill the cam.

It’s why I recommend everyone go for flat tappet now. Only tried and true method. And you don’t need that expensive tool either with flat tappet.

 

[ironmike]

so it looks like this is the fix?

Hopefully this will explain a little of what we have available and what’s coming to fix those 2019+ Cummins lifter noises. Several calls coming in daily... | By Wagler Competition ProductsFacebook

Hopefully this will explain a little of what we have available and what’s coming to fix those 2019+ Cummins lifter noises. Several calls coming in daily...

www.facebook.com

 

[CTF2019]

so it looks like this is the fix?

Hopefully this will explain a little of what we have available and what’s coming to fix those 2019+ Cummins lifter noises. Several calls coming in daily... | By Wagler Competition ProductsFacebook

Hopefully this will explain a little of what we have available and what’s coming to fix those 2019+ Cummins lifter noises. Several calls coming in daily...

www.facebook.com

No.

This is.

’19+ flat tappet conversion kit – Hamilton Cams

hamiltoncams.com

 

[ironmike]

Smooth vs ringed is no difference. Read my thread on CF.

They deleted an oiling hole on the newer lifters, but the real problem is the wobble because of the small key. I still hear weird noises on my new solid Cummins rollers and only time will tell if they also kill the cam.

It’s why I recommend everyone go for flat tappet now. Only tried and true method. And you don’t need that expensive tool either with flat tappet.

Excellent! We would not need which tool? The tool that uses cam hole to drop/install lifters? I thought that is necessary to install lifters?

 

[ironmike]

No.

This is.

’19+ flat tappet conversion kit – Hamilton Cams

hamiltoncams.com

OH!!! So that is a completely different kit than the lifter spacer...

 

[CTF2019]

Excellent! We would not need which tool? The tool that uses cam hole to drop/install lifters? I thought that is necessary to install lifters?

Flat tappets are lighter and not keyed, so can be installed the only way with trough, string, magnet, and good old wooden dowels.

OH!!! So that is a completely different kit than the lifter spacer...

Yes. I have the solid spacers in my truck now and it’s starting to sound like a typewriter again… Time will tell.

 

[ironmike]

Flat tappets are lighter and not keyed, so can be installed the only way with trough, string, magnet, and good old wooden dowels.

Yes. I have the solid spacers in my truck now and it’s starting to sound like a typewriter again… Time will tell.

Gotcha thats clear now! Thx! So tapping seems to possibly being the non solid spacer design? Where gaps may be? Solids could not tap?

 

[CTF2019]

Gotcha thats clear now! Thx! So tapping seems to possibly being the non solid spacer design? Where gaps may be? Solids could not tap?

I believe the noise is from the rollers wobbling. Cummins key way is too small for block.

I hear the Jessel rollers are better, but they are very pricey.

So that’s why I say just go flat tappet like 1989-2018 and be done with it. You don’t want to do this job twice.

 

[flan]

Hey that’s me!

I have a whole thread about this on CF.

Solid Roller Lifters for 2019+

www.cumminsforum.com

Nice vid! Flat tappet takes out the guesswork. If I ever had to do it that would be my route.

 

[CTF2019]

Nice vid! Flat tappet takes out the guesswork. If I ever had to do it that would be my route.

Thanks. First instructional video, so not the best, but I tried to hit most of the points.

And yeah, flat tappet is the only real solution IMO.

 

[flan]

Thanks. First instructional video, so not the best, but I tried to hit most of the points.

And yeah, flat tappet is the only real solution IMO.

I never saw the tool in actual use, just images of it. Made perfect sense to me.

 

[relbus]

Anyone have a video of what the lifter noise sounds like? My 23 is making a racket when its cold and it has me concerned.

 

[UglyViking]

So let me get this straight. The issue with the 19+ lifter failures is identical to the issue with the CP4? And the fix for both is identical? hahaha

 

[CTF2019]

Welp, my ears weren’t deceiving me. I have camshaft wear again after 10,000miles. This is a fault in the Cummins roller lifter design, which I’m assuming allows a rotational wobble due to a small key on lifter compared to keyway in block. This causes sharp corners of roller to dig into the lobe, which stops the rolling causing more scoring. Furthermore, rollers show blueing which is evidence of heat damage from said scoring.

Three different lobes pictured.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Welp, my ears weren’t deceiving me. I have camshaft wear again after 10,000miles. This is a fault in the Cummins roller lifter design, which I’m assuming allows a rotational wobble due to a small key on lifter compared to keyway in block. This causes sharp corners of roller to dig into the lobe, which stops the rolling causing more scoring. Furthermore, rollers show blueing which is evidence of heat damage from said scoring.

Three different lobes pictured.
View attachment 66693View attachment 66694View attachment 66695

With 15w40 too wow

 

[mbarber84]

Welp, my ears weren’t deceiving me. I have camshaft wear again after 10,000miles. This is a fault in the Cummins roller lifter design, which I’m assuming allows a rotational wobble due to a small key on lifter compared to keyway in block. This causes sharp corners of roller to dig into the lobe, which stops the rolling causing more scoring. Furthermore, rollers show blueing which is evidence of heat damage from said scoring.

Three different lobes pictured.
View attachment 66693View attachment 66694View attachment 66695

This is incredibly unfortunate, and utterly absurd. I’ve been following your ordeal since the initial failure and repair. I wonder if there have been any changes from 2019 to the current iteration of the engine that were done in an attempt to address this issue? Very disheartening and disappointing that this type of failure is happening progressively and more frequent with these engines. Prior to 2019, Cam and Lifter failure in a 6.7 or 5.9 engine was practically unheard of outside of severe and catastrophic problems.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

With this becoming a larger issue i wonder if there will be some sort of a recall in the future?

 

[mbarber84]

With this becoming a larger issue i wonder if there will be some sort of a recall in the future?

It needs to begin as a recall. But ultimately there needs to be a significant change. I’ll keep saying the same thing: Put the engine back to the flat tappet arrangement. If it’s good enough for every other B6.7 engine (both on and off road), it’s more than sufficient for our pickups. I’ll gladly take the extra decibel of noise and the 150k overhead adjustment. They toyed with something that shouldn’t have been toyed with.

 

[CTF2019]

It needs to begin as a recall. But ultimately there needs to be a significant change. I’ll keep saying the same thing: Put the engine back to the flat tappet arrangement. If it’s good enough for ever other B6.7 engine (both on and off road), it’s more than sufficient for our pickups. I’ll gladly take the extra decibel of noise and the 150k overhead adjustment. They toyed with something that shouldn’t have been toyed with.

Next time I pull cam I’m also going to get rid of that scissor cam gear. I saw unusual wear on crank gear from that scissor, and the c&c engines don’t even have the scissor if that says anything.

Also, if you look it up, Cummins has a problem design roller cams that last. Overall, this is a severe case of "if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it" for Cummins and Ram.



Part of me feels like I should’ve stayed away from 2019+, but I also want to get this issue solved. I was the first to hear of this tapping noise when I purchased my first 2019 3500 new back in mid 2019. I lemoned that truck. I always knew it was a cam issue because of frequency, but at the time I thought it was maybe a flaw with a small batch of trucks. Turns out this is a big deal.

At the end of the day, I’m glad I found the issue is in roller design. This will help save others in the future from fixing it with inferior parts.



I wish I could talk to someone with Chrysler to discuss the findings with, but they are too bureaucratic lol.