Automatic Regen too often

[joshuaeb09]

I read an article somewhere on the internet (so it has to be true) the main reason for the litigation against Cummins was the tune allowed the truck to pass smog inspection at idle or at any continuous rpm up to redline. The NOX emissions (heat related) would increase under normal driving. So they encouraged Cummins to lower the NOX by increasing the fuel and increasing the soot since it has a filter to capture that. Even though it has the SCR to lower the NOX emissions with help from the DEF.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed the case. My truck, when it misbehaved the most, REALLY tried hard to get pre SCR NOX squashed with tons of EGR and what felt/looked like running rich. I'd honestly just rather spray more DEF than let the truck eat its own filth and put even more load on the DOC/DPF... Just seems stupid if you ask me and makes sense hearing about failure modes with face plugging, etc, on some higher mileage 4.32487298356829365389256 gens locally. Doesn't really seem to matter if its a farm truck, pavement princess, or hotshot - Some of them just fail with faceplugging, excessive regens, etc while others keep on trucking just fine. It seems like the factory calibrations and the margins within the calibrations are just "off" or the calibrations don't have enough correction factor capacitiy along with margin of error in the MAF, MAP, IAT, etc sensors throwing it into a "bad state".

Doing some more additive testing with our small fleet of two '22s (plus friends/extended family) the Archoil at the Perf dose seems to make the most difference with our local fuel blends/quality/charatecteristics with keeping the EGR from being "greedy" and keeping the DPF cleaned passively. Seems like HSS wasn't really doing much for us when we were using it unless I blended it at like 4-5x the perf dose in our local fuel. Primrose 5007 also seems to do a good job, but we've been reserving that for the tractor and other off road equipment that has its fuel stored for longer durations (the 5007 seems to do really good job for fuel storage based on fleet/ag customer feedback when I was selling the stuff). If I had the banks guages with the datalogging functionality rather than just the displays I'd do some longer term datalogging with different fuel/additives, but just tracking how the DPF and EGR is behaving is enough for me at this point to know what works and what doesn't on the trucks.

Also having put on my engineer hat, there are tons of research articles/papers/studies going back to the start of emissions crap that show certain additives can indeed help reduce NOX. Part of me speculates that the impact of the Archoil is actually the reduction of NOX along with cleaning ability making it ideal for us dealing with these newer trucks and how they're tuned these days. If you can drop the pre-SCR NOX via fuel/additives then it would make sense that it wouldn't richen up or eat more EGR to knock down the NOX.

 

[22PearlRamMegaHD]

Well the new MAF and DPF seem to have solved nothing. I'm getting almost no passive regen, even with the Archoil on the performance dose. In the last 60 miles since the most recent regen I'm now at about 37% on the evic DPF gauge. That's 2 x 30 mile trips (each way) at 75 mph on the interstate. I thought that maybe it had been solved but no. I'm going to add 6400d today to my tank as it's been about 3300 miles since I last used it. Up until this, I had only had 24 hour regens but it seems to be going downhill fast. I'm waiting for the 35" tires to come in to see if making it work a little harder unloaded helps, but I'm almost to the point of just deleting everything

 

[Guido Scamardo]

My 2020 2500 has very similar issues. Many trips to the dealer with a DPF filter replacement, forced regen’s and latest attempt was to replace the EGR valve. All in 3 months on a truck with 22k miles. They need a better handle on this problem than “drive it harder “.

I wanted to post a positive update on this issue for my 2500 and hope it helps someone else. As I posted last time, they replaced the EGR valve to correct the issue after multiple forced regen's and replacing the DPF entirely. The EGR has (so far) fixed the problem. The automatic regen's occur predictably now and no more taking to the dealer! I am thrilled but don’t want to pound my chest too much for fear of it coming back! LOL

 

[Brutal_HO]

You say the DPF gauge constantly reads 0% and yet the truck is regenerating sooner than 24 engine hours?….this is quite literally impossible unless there’s a malfunction or issue causing it to operate outside of normal parameters.

I still think you’re misunderstanding the way these function, or misinterpreting / miscalculating the data.

To further comment on this and a previous assertation made by @AH64ID regarding soot load indicator on the EVIC and PID and time to active regen;

This past extended weekend, I observed this very phenomenon. I had an EVIC gauge showing around 25% and PID around 72 until I hooked the (12K) trailer and towed ~3 hours to camp. It had gone to zero within the first 50-100 miles and the PID down to 45 and I believe kept going down to around 40 eventually. Drove around not towing a few days while hunting and the gauge climbed back to 25% and the PID as I recall was around 70. Yesterday I towed home and while the EVIC dropped back to zero in short order, the PID CONTINUED TO INCREASE and was 94.5 when I returned home. I missed recording the last active regen which was actively towing 16K, but it's currently 47 hours since my last recorded active regen, so on target to 48 hours when it hits 100%

 

[OLEJOE]

To further comment on this and a previous assertation made by @AH64ID regarding soot load indicator on the EVIC and PID and time to active regen;

This past extended weekend, I observed this very phenomenon. I had an EVIC gauge showing around 25% and PID around 72 until I hooked the (12K) trailer and towed ~3 hours to camp. It had gone to zero within the first 50-100 miles and the PID down to 45 and I believe kept going down to around 40 eventually. Drove around not towing a few days while hunting and the gauge climbed back to 25% and the PID as I recall was around 70. Yesterday I towed home and while the EVIC dropped back to zero in short order, the PID CONTINUED TO INCREASE and was 94.5 when I returned home. I missed recording the last active regen which was actively towing 16K, but it's currently 47 hours since my last recorded active regen, so on target to 48 hours when it hits 100%

I noticed my ScanGauge III tracks right with the 24 hr regen. If the truck is lugged around or in city driving, the percentage will increase but after a good highway run, it tracks right with the hours since last regen. There is supposed to be an X gauge for DPF soot load (gr) but when I put all of the information in it said “No Data”.

 

[steve49]

I noticed my ScanGauge III tracks right with the 24 hr regen. If the truck is lugged around or in city driving, the percentage will increase but after a good highway run, it tracks right with the hours since last regen. There is supposed to be an X gauge for DPF soot load (gr) but when I put all of the information in it said “No Data”.

OLEJOE, when you set up your SG3 did you enter the PID's manually or did you let it download them directly from the truck? I've been running the SG2 since my 14 Ecodiesel and then reprogrammed when I got the 2500, and I'm currently using both and haven't decided which will be permanent. I like the SG2 because it sits nicely on the steering column, easy viewing when driving, and I only monitor the four items seen in the pic. The only issue I guess is the SG3 breaks it down a little further with the decimal point and of course displays more options. Anyway the SG xGauge uses the name STL for Soot Load % as seen on my SG2, where as the factory PID from the truck download calls it Regen Trigger on the SG3, so I'm guessing they're the same except for title. SG xGauge uses TSA for Time Since Active for the 24 clock on the SG2, and the truck PID uses Time Since Regen on SG3. The truck PID downloads also had Avg Regen Dist (miles), so I went to Scangauge and asked them if they could obtain an PID for xGauge so I could add to my SG2 which they did. The only issue is it shows 2 miles less on the SG2 than on the SG3, I've contacted them about it. So the xGauge for DPF soot load should work for you, unless your off a number or letter when adding.

 

[OLEJOE]

OLEJOE, when you set up your SG3 did you enter the PID's manually or did you let it download them directly from the truck? I've been running the SG2 since my 14 Ecodiesel and then reprogrammed when I got the 2500, and I'm currently using both and haven't decided which will be permanent. I like the SG2 because it sits nicely on the steering column, easy viewing when driving, and I only monitor the four items seen in the pic. The only issue I guess is the SG3 breaks it down a little further with the decimal point and of course displays more options. Anyway the SG xGauge uses the name STL for Soot Load % as seen on my SG2, where as the factory PID from the truck download calls it Regen Trigger on the SG3, so I'm guessing they're the same except for title. SG xGauge uses TSA for Time Since Active for the 24 clock on the SG2, and the truck PID uses Time Since Regen on SG3. The truck PID downloads also had Avg Regen Dist (miles), so I went to Scangauge and asked them if they could obtain an PID for xGauge so I could add to my SG2 which they did. The only issue is it shows 2 miles less on the SG2 than on the SG3, I've contacted them about it. So the xGauge for DPF soot load should work for you, unless your off a number or letter when adding.

View attachment 76767

Mine is set up like yours. I don’t remember where I got all of the numbers from but I found one that list Soot Load grams but it didn’t work. Kept showing no data. I did notice that 2 different ones that showed dpf state and percentage basically showed the same thing, just one showed more decimal places.

 

[AH64ID]

OLEJOE, when you set up your SG3 did you enter the PID's manually or did you let it download them directly from the truck? I've been running the SG2 since my 14 Ecodiesel and then reprogrammed when I got the 2500, and I'm currently using both and haven't decided which will be permanent. I like the SG2 because it sits nicely on the steering column, easy viewing when driving, and I only monitor the four items seen in the pic. The only issue I guess is the SG3 breaks it down a little further with the decimal point and of course displays more options. Anyway the SG xGauge uses the name STL for Soot Load % as seen on my SG2, where as the factory PID from the truck download calls it Regen Trigger on the SG3, so I'm guessing they're the same except for title. SG xGauge uses TSA for Time Since Active for the 24 clock on the SG2, and the truck PID uses Time Since Regen on SG3. The truck PID downloads also had Avg Regen Dist (miles), so I went to Scangauge and asked them if they could obtain an PID for xGauge so I could add to my SG2 which they did. The only issue is it shows 2 miles less on the SG2 than on the SG3, I've contacted them about it. So the xGauge for DPF soot load should work for you, unless your off a number or letter when adding.

View attachment 76767

Regen trigger the DPF % PID that’s the most useful.

Time between regen and avg regen dist are not accurate and not worth monitoring.

If time since regen is accurate, never used it or verified it, then you’re current regen trigger is being driven by soot.

 

[steve49]

Regen trigger the DPF % PID that’s the most useful.

Time between regen and avg regen dist are not accurate and not worth monitoring.

If time since regen is accurate, never used it or verified it, then you’re current regen trigger is being driven by soot.

The Regen Trigger % will fluctuate up and down depending on how much driving I do, I live in a small rural community (7000 ft elevation) so 25-30 miles roundtrip to town and back, usually a couple times during the week. I also get out and do 50-100 miles occasionally as well, along with pulling my toyhauler 6-8 times a year. I won't be driving anywhere tomorrow but will head to Phoenix Friday, and that 78% showing will drop back down and then come back up gradually on the trip which would be passive regens. When the Time Since Regen is at the 23(+) hour mark, and the Regen Trigger hits 99.9% then it regens. I've seen this cycle many times over the Trigger Regen and Time Since Regen come right together at the 24 hour cycle. Now it may be soot based with passive as well, but all my regens have been at the 24 hour cycle! Actually Time Between Regens I don't pay attention to and will remove, but this round trip to Phoenix and back may cause a regen, and it will be at the 24 mark, and when done I'll set my B trip meter and see how many miles to the next regen to compare the Avg Regen Dist. As I've stated in past posts, I don't pay any attention to the trucks dash gauge, I use the SG monitor which gives good enough info for me to monitor the soot %, 24 clock, and when to expect the next regen cycle. The only two early regens I experienced was after the recall for the new CP 3.3 fuel pump, I was running the Mopar AA air filter for a couple months with no issue, then I installed the AB filter after the bulletin came out with the change. Then the two early regens, I left the AB filter in, and then everything went back to normal with the 24 hour cycle, and has been that way ever since.

 

[AH64ID]

The Regen Trigger % will fluctuate up and down depending on how much driving I do, I live in a small rural community (7000 ft elevation) so 25-30 miles roundtrip to town and back, usually a couple times during the week. I also get out and do 50-100 miles occasionally as well, along with pulling my toyhauler 6-8 times a year. I won't be driving anywhere tomorrow but will head to Phoenix Friday, and that 78% showing will drop back down and then come back up gradually on the trip which would be passive regens. When the Time Since Regen is at the 23(+) hour mark, and the Regen Trigger hits 99.9% then it regens. I've seen this cycle many times over the Trigger Regen and Time Since Regen come right together at the 24 hour cycle. Now it may be soot based with passive as well, but all my regens have been at the 24 hour cycle! Actually Time Between Regens I don't pay attention to and will remove, but this round trip to Phoenix and back may cause a regen, and it will be at the 24 mark, and when done I'll set my B trip meter and see how many miles to the next regen to compare the Avg Regen Dist. As I've stated in past posts, I don't pay any attention to the trucks dash gauge, I use the SG monitor which gives good enough info for me to monitor the soot %, 24 clock, and when to expect the next regen cycle. The only two early regens I experienced was after the recall for the new CP 3.3 fuel pump, I was running the Mopar AA air filter for a couple months with no issue, then I installed the AB filter after the bulletin came out with the change. Then the two early regens, I left the AB filter in, and then everything went back to normal with the 24 hour cycle, and has been that way ever since.

I know you said you don’t monitor it, but can you look and tell me what the dash gauge is at?

Cross monitoring the dash and PID paints the best picture.

 

[MEGA HO]

I've had an AA made in Mexico air filter installed the last time I've changed the filter, truck didn't go into active regens as often as some of you describe here, but the DPF gauge was coming up quite more often than previously, minus the 24hrs scheduled regens, it would still very seldom go into active one as we usually have highway trips long enough and often enough to burn off the soot in a passive regen.
All my efforts to find a AB filter locally were fruitless, the amazon reputable seller I ordered from who had thousands of positive reviews selling original made in USA orange foam filters, sent me another AA piece of junk which I sent back.
Tried a few different NAPA stores and no one carried orange made in USA but had the equivalent of a AA filter (made in Mexico).
Finally stopped at another NAPA a few days ago and they had this Made in China instead of the usual made in Mexico, decided to stick it in and try it.
Visually is looks very close to the AB filter, bother have 46 fins (or whatever they're called) of filter media, the Mexican filter have 54 fins.
Time will tell but the few days I've been driving it the DPF gauge didn't move and the avg fuel consumption improves slightly (this may just be in my head). Time will tell.
Attaching pictures comparing the AB (from my other truck I've recently purchased) to a Chinese NAPA Gold 6930 to AA Mexican filter.

 

[steve49]

I know you said you don’t monitor it, but can you look and tell me what the dash gauge is at?

Cross monitoring the dash and PID paints the best picture.

Here is a photo showing the truck dash gauge and the SG2 at 78% and at15 hours into the 24 hour cycle. Like I said that 78% will fluctuate down and up on my drive to Phoenix, I'll take another pic when I get to my destination, and another when I get back home. The round trip should be about six hours driving time, so I'm guessing I'll be around 21 hours on the clock when I get home. If I run any additional errands down there I might see a regen on the way back, if so I'll get a pic just before it starts.

 

[OLEJOE]

I've had an AA made in Mexico air filter installed the last time I've changed the filter, truck didn't go into active regens as often as some of you describe here, but the DPF gauge was coming up quite more often than previously, minus the 24hrs scheduled regens, it would still very seldom go into active one as we usually have highway trips long enough and often enough to burn off the soot in a passive regen.
All my efforts to find a AB filter locally were fruitless, the amazon reputable seller I ordered from who had thousands of positive reviews selling original made in USA orange foam filters, sent me another AA piece of junk which I sent back.
Tried a few different NAPA stores and no one carried orange made in USA but had the equivalent of a AA filter (made in Mexico).
Finally stopped at another NAPA a few days ago and they had this Made in China instead of the usual made in Mexico, decided to stick it in and try it.
Visually is looks very close to the AB filter, bother have 46 fins (or whatever they're called) of filter media, the Mexican filter have 54 fins.
Time will tell but the few days I've been driving it the DPF gauge didn't move and the avg fuel consumption improves slightly (this may just be in my head). Time will tell.
Attaching pictures comparing the AB (from my other truck I've recently purchased) to a Chinese NAPA Gold 6930 to AA Mexican filter.

NAPA has gotten away from the Wix filter line for their Gold filters. Not sure if they have changed 100% of their line but most are being made by Premium Guard to NAPA’s specifications. I bought one of the 7620 oil filters of the new design but after a thorough inspection of it, I’m not sure I’m going to use it. I plan to dissect it and look a little closer. It’s a shame that nowadays import filter quality is actually better than what is being made domestically for the most part. Some are still good but you have to really check them out before leaving the store with them.

 

[OLEJOE]

Regen trigger the DPF % PID that’s the most useful.

Time between regen and avg regen dist are not accurate and not worth monitoring.

If time since regen is accurate, never used it or verified it, then you’re current regen trigger is being driven by soot.

The Time Since Regen is tracking right with the hour meter on my truck. I guess I’m going to have to call Linear Logic because the DPF State is supposed to show a code, 1-10, and mine shows an 11 at times and they don’t show what that user code is. As far as the mileage since last regen, mine is still reading zeros since the truck hasn’t regened since I installed it. Which EGT do I need to keep an eye on to see if it is or is close to doing a passive regen ?

 

[oledirteh]

i was looking at a new limited dually and i laughed when i saw this. 21 miles.

 

[AH64ID]

i was looking at a new limited dually and i laughed when i saw this. 21 miles.

View attachment 76864View attachment 76865

I’ll bet she has some dealership idle time.

 

[oledirteh]

I’ll bet she has some dealership idle time.

yea. its a beautiful truck. i need the megacab one day as im about to get a 3rd dog (Rescue) and its going to be big. and they go camping with us and well 300lbs + of dogs in the back is gonna be tight.

 

[22PearlRamMegaHD]

Got the 295/65/20s installed (35.1x11
77x20). Hoping for a little more work to increase EGTs for more passive regen

 

[22PearlRamMegaHD]

Small update. My truck averaged about 17.5 mpg with the 295-65-r20 tires on an 80 mile round-trip drive. I'd usually get about 19.5-20 on this particular highway drive with the old Firestone. Evic registered nothing for soot, but I'm on the last half of a tank with 6400d.

 

[Brutal_HO]

To further comment on this and a previous assertation made by @AH64ID regarding soot load indicator on the EVIC and PID and time to active regen;

This past extended weekend, I observed this very phenomenon. I had an EVIC gauge showing around 25% and PID around 72 until I hooked the (12K) trailer and towed ~3 hours to camp. It had gone to zero within the first 50-100 miles and the PID down to 45 and I believe kept going down to around 40 eventually. Drove around not towing a few days while hunting and the gauge climbed back to 25% and the PID as I recall was around 70. Yesterday I towed home and while the EVIC dropped back to zero in short order, the PID CONTINUED TO INCREASE and was 94.5 when I returned home. I missed recording the last active regen which was actively towing 16K, but it's currently 47 hours since my last recorded active regen, so on target to 48 hours when it hits 100%

My truck just did the 24 hour time based regen. The EVIC was still on 0. Used the truck today to run across town on an errand, 50/50 highway and boulevard city driving. Stopped to "look" at cars through a referral from a friend and ended up driving off the lot with a new Sorento Prestige AWD for the wife.

The active regen started shortly after filling the tank (idling) and was complete before I could even start up my tablet/gauges to see where everything was at. Got it on long enough to see the Active regen PID set at 1, and got a pic of the EVIC hours. I was concerned I'd have to shut down being so close to home, but it was probably less than 3 miles to completion.