2024 Ram 3500 SRW towing/payload questions (again!)

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Agreed, that is why they get paid. But it is not without legal liability and if they modified a weight and that new rating was incorrect, they still face the consequences. Again, as I noted earlier, payload is not a legal rating of anything and is not used by DoT. But they typically increase payload by increasing the GVWR and that, like you said, it still going to be determined by components like wheels/tires, frame, brakes, and suspension components that attach the axles to the frames (I am confident air bags, even on semi-trucks, do not go into the gvwr or gcvwr rating, but not 100% certain).

On semis they are 100% calculated in since the only spring they have is the air springs on anything built in the last 15 years. No more leafs in a modern semi

 

[darrellr]

On semis they are 100% calculated in since the only spring they have is the air springs on anything built in the last 15 years. No more leafs in a modern semi

I understand how that works but I am not sure certification is based on that as much as the airbags must adhere to the certification. It is a chicken or egg thing, and I am not clear how the actual rating is certified.

 

[OldRamNewRam]

Our situation was similar to yours. I was not sure of which camper to buy, so I ordered a Ford F-450 on September 5, 2023. Since our 2022 Reflection 295RL was giving us brake issues, we ended up rolling into General RV, Huntley, IL where we negotiated for a 2023 Solitude 310GK that had 660W of solar and was at a firesale price of $79K+. Of course, it was the fall so we took a bath on the trade-in, but good riddance! As we had reservations already setup in Alabama for a campground in February, 2024 I got nervous and started looking for used trucks. The pin weight on the 310GK is advertised to be 2350 lb. However, using your super secret 22% pin weight the actual CAT scales revealed it to be 3,400 lb (actual) even without a generator in the front storage area (after purchasing the truck)! We ended up buying a 2023 RAM Laramie dually from Mark Dodge for a whopping $18K off sticker in November, 2023 (praise God)! The payload rating on this guy is 5,591 lb so the 3,400 lb + estimated 1,000 lb of people (my wife & I), the dog, the accessories (generator, Solo stove, wood, fishing gear, gave up Copenhagen in 1984 so no tin weight from that), etc. is only 4,400 lb with a 79% utilization or 21% "stroke to go" for additional payload. Note that the Ford F-450 has still not even been scheduled for build, yet, so I am grateful for getting this RAM 3500 with the stellar engine braking (via the high compression SO engine). The DW says this is our last camper, but perhaps there may be a toy hauler (heavier) in our future someday! May you have wisdom in this decision for the right camper!

 

[AH64ID]

Our situation was similar to yours. I was not sure of which camper to buy, so I ordered a Ford F-450 on September 5, 2023. Since our 2022 Reflection 295RL was giving us brake issues, we ended up rolling into General RV, Huntley, IL where we negotiated for a 2023 Solitude 310GK that had 660W of solar and was at a firesafe price of $79K+. Of course, it was the fall so we took a bath on the trade-in, but good riddance! As we had reservations already setup in Alabama for a campground in February, 2024 I got nervous and started looking for used trucks. The pin weight on the 310GK is advertised to be 2350 lb. However, using your super secret 22% pin weight the actual CAT scales revealed it to be 3,400 lb even without a generator in the front storage area (after purchasing the truck)! We ended up buying a 2023 RAM Laramie dually from Mark Dodge for a whopping $18K off sticker in November, 2023 (praise God)! The payload rating on this guy is 5,591 lb so the 3,400 lb + estimated 1,000 lb of people (my wife & I), the dog, the accessories (generator, Solo stove, wood, fishing gear, gave up Copenhagen in 1984 so no tin weight from that), etc. is only 4,400 lb with a 79% utilization or 21% "stroke to go" for additional payload. Note that the Ford F-450 has still not even been scheduled for build, yet, so I am grateful for getting this RAM 3500 with the stellar engine braking (via the high compression SO engine). The DW says this is our last camper, but perhaps there may be a toy hauler (heavier) in our future someday! May you have wisdom in this decision for the right camper!

Did you order a F-450 P/U or C&C?

 

[ErikTheRed]

Our situation was similar to yours. I was not sure of which camper to buy, so I ordered a Ford F-450 on September 5, 2023. Since our 2022 Reflection 295RL was giving us brake issues, we ended up rolling into General RV, Huntley, IL where we negotiated for a 2023 Solitude 310GK that had 660W of solar and was at a firesafe price of $79K+. Of course, it was the fall so we took a bath on the trade-in, but good riddance! As we had reservations already setup in Alabama for a campground in February, 2024 I got nervous and started looking for used trucks. The pin weight on the 310GK is advertised to be 2350 lb. However, using your super secret 22% pin weight the actual CAT scales revealed it to be 3,400 lb even without a generator in the front storage area (after purchasing the truck)! We ended up buying a 2023 RAM Laramie dually from Mark Dodge for a whopping $18K off sticker in November, 2023 (praise God)! The payload rating on this guy is 5,591 lb so the 3,400 lb + estimated 1,000 lb of people (my wife & I), the dog, the accessories (generator, Solo stove, wood, fishing gear, gave up Copenhagen in 1984 so no tin weight from that), etc. is only 4,400 lb with a 79% utilization or 21% "stroke to go" for additional payload. Note that the Ford F-450 has still not even been scheduled for build, yet, so I am grateful for getting this RAM 3500 with the stellar engine braking (via the high compression SO engine). The DW says this is our last camper, but perhaps there may be a toy hauler (heavier) in our future someday! May you have wisdom in this decision for the right camper!

Advertised pin weight at 2350# but scaled at 3400#??? Is that loaded weight?? Dude I hope so, cuz if not, that means the manufacturer is over 1000 pounds off actual weight. Seems like they could be sued for advertising numbers like that.... or worse, somebody gets hurt or killed as a result. Yikes.

As far as toy hauler wisdom, there really isn't much to give beyond the obvious differences and personal preferences. But heres a morsel of advice: STAY AWAY FROM GRAND DESIGN!! Based on your Reflection "good riddence" comment I'm sure you already agree. Biggest POS I've ever owned, by a long shot. And no, despite all their promises and 91,000-point inspections and "superior customer service" claims, these people build an incredible pile of crap and then leave you hanging just like everyone else. If they really built a better product, they'd offer a better warranty.

$18k off msrp is a heck of deal! Too bad Mark Dodge is about 2100 miles away or I woulda gave em a shot. I paid about $12k under msrp ($75k to $63K) for my Bighorn 3500 HO from Dolan Dodge in Reno, and I was happy with that. But I woulda been happier with 18K off. LOL So you bought a 2023 dually just to have in the meantime while your F450 is being built? You have more money than I do, thats for dang sure. Can I have some?

Anyhow, regarding the payload of my truck, here's an honest thought.... if the only difference between a 3500 SRW and a 3500 DRW is the dual rear wheels (same frame, same drivetrain, same axles, same suspension, etc), then it seems obvious to me that the extra payload for the DRW comes mostly, if not completely, from the fact that it has 4 rear wheels/tires instead of two. From that, and without much mental effort, I'm able to extrapolate through sheer instinctual, reflexive genius that if I were to upgrade the load rating of my tires, the payload rating of my SRW would increase. My theory is, this is why they put the max vehicle payload number on the same sticker as the tire info instead of on the sticker with GVWR and GAWR and such where it would actually make more sense. Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Advertised pin weight at 2350# but scaled at 3400#??? Is that loaded weight?? Dude I hope so, cuz if not, that means the manufacturer is over 1000 pounds off actual weight. Seems like they could be sued for advertising numbers like that.... or worse, somebody gets hurt or killed as a result. Yikes.

As far as toy hauler wisdom, there really isn't much to give beyond the obvious differences and personal preferences. But heres a morsel of advice: STAY AWAY FROM GRAND DESIGN!! Based on your Reflection "good riddence" comment I'm sure you already agree. Biggest POS I've ever owned, by a long shot. And no, despite all their promises and 91,000-point inspections and "superior customer service" claims, these people build an incredible pile of crap and then leave you hanging just like everyone else. If they really built a better product, they'd offer a better warranty.

$18k off msrp is a heck of deal! Too bad Mark Dodge is about 2100 miles away or I woulda gave em a shot. I paid about $12k under msrp ($75k to $63K) for my Bighorn 3500 HO from Dolan Dodge in Reno, and I was happy with that. But I woulda been happier with 18K off. LOL So you bought a 2023 dually just to have in the meantime while your F450 is being built? You have more money than I do, thats for dang sure. Can I have some?

Anyhow, regarding the payload of my truck, here's an honest thought.... if the only difference between a 3500 SRW and a 3500 DRW is the dual rear wheels (same frame, same drivetrain, same axles, same suspension, etc), then it seems obvious to me that the extra payload for the DRW comes almost, if not exclusively, from the fact that it has 4 rear wheels/tires instead of two. From that, and without much mental effort, I'm able to extrapolate through sheer instinctual, reflexive genius that if I were to upgrade the load rating of my tires, the payload rating of my SRW would increase. My theory is, this is why they put the max vehicle payload number on the same sticker as the tire info instead of on the sticker with GVWR and GAWR and such where it would actually make more sense. Tell me why I'm wrong.

I disagree on your thought of grand design but the info about the truck is spot on the dual wheels add the extra payload.


The issue he had with his brakes would be more likely a dexter issue as the only thing GD has in that respect is the wiring from the 7 pin to the axles the rest is dexter. The issue for him was likely the molded 7 pin as they are not compatible with the ram 7pin and after a while they start to have issues.

My next 5th wheel will likely be a GD since i am trying to shy away from Jayco since they were bought out by Thor in 2016 they quality has taken a dive.


the advertised pin weight is always DRY with nothing but the bare shipping weight so its not hard to add 1000lbs with the basics you need to actually camp

 

[ErikTheRed]

If you're unhappy with Jayco quality since they were purchased by Thor, understand that Grand Design was purchased by Winnebago, so....

Yeah I'm gonna upgrade my tires to higher load rating, hook up that new toy hauler and go for it.

I understand advertised pin weight is dry weight, my question to OldRamNewRam was whether or not his CAT scaled weight was with the trailer dry or loaded.

 

[AH64ID]

Quite often advertised/brochure weight is the base model, so it’s even lighter than dry weight (as delivered but empty), which is generally (aside from some Toy Haulers) lighter than loaded weight.

I had a TT where brochure tongue weight was 60% of dry tongue weight and 45% of loaded tongue weight. Talk about not even close.

This is why using 22-25% pin weight of GVWR is recommended to know if your truck has enough capacity.

 

[OldRamNewRam]

Did you order a F-450 P/U or C&C?

Sorry, should have been more specific... a Crew Cab. Again, in the end with the camper we got that would have been overkill with the 4.10 rear end, but, even though this is my 3rd RAM (love the interiors & good looks on the outside), the turning radius on the F-450 is unbelievable!

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry, should have been more specific... a Crew Cab. Again, in the end with the camper we got that would have been overkill with the 4.10 rear end, but, even though this is my 3rd RAM (love the interiors & good looks on the outside), the turning radius on the F-450 is unbelievable!

Sorry, pickup or cab and chassis?

 

[OldRamNewRam]

Advertised pin weight at 2350# but scaled at 3400#??? Is that loaded weight?? Dude I hope so, cuz if not, that means the manufacturer is over 1000 pounds off actual weight. Seems like they could be sued for advertising numbers like that.... or worse, somebody gets hurt or killed as a result. Yikes.

As far as toy hauler wisdom, there really isn't much to give beyond the obvious differences and personal preferences. But heres a morsel of advice: STAY AWAY FROM GRAND DESIGN!! Based on your Reflection "good riddence" comment I'm sure you already agree. Biggest POS I've ever owned, by a long shot. And no, despite all their promises and 91,000-point inspections and "superior customer service" claims, these people build an incredible pile of crap and then leave you hanging just like everyone else. If they really built a better product, they'd offer a better warranty.

$18k off msrp is a heck of deal! Too bad Mark Dodge is about 2100 miles away or I woulda gave em a shot. I paid about $12k under msrp ($75k to $63K) for my Bighorn 3500 HO from Dolan Dodge in Reno, and I was happy with that. But I woulda been happier with 18K off. LOL So you bought a 2023 dually just to have in the meantime while your F450 is being built? You have more money than I do, thats for dang sure. Can I have some?

Anyhow, regarding the payload of my truck, here's an honest thought.... if the only difference between a 3500 SRW and a 3500 DRW is the dual rear wheels (same frame, same drivetrain, same axles, same suspension, etc), then it seems obvious to me that the extra payload for the DRW comes mostly, if not completely, from the fact that it has 4 rear wheels/tires instead of two. From that, and without much mental effort, I'm able to extrapolate through sheer instinctual, reflexive genius that if I were to upgrade the load rating of my tires, the payload rating of my SRW would increase. My theory is, this is why they put the max vehicle payload number on the same sticker as the tire info instead of on the sticker with GVWR and GAWR and such where it would actually make more sense. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Yes, the 3,400 lb (on the nose) pin weight was at a CAT scale after the truck & camper were purchased & we were loaded for bear headed to Alabama this spring. I had 1/3 tank water, full fuel, lots of food in the pantry, a few pieces of iron stored here and there, toolbox in the front with all the cans of lubricants & cleaners, etc. needed for a two month trip. It was LOADED.

The new Solitude has had two major issues, but, again, component failures, e.g. one of the Coleman A/C units wasn't working when we got to Alabama and we are now on our 3rd Furrion 12V, 20 cu. ft. fridge (all under warranty). This last one has been working well for the past three weeks. Other than some loose trim pieces, shades pulling apart at the bottom, a screw fastening a window to the camper with one of the screws sticking outside, this one has been perfect! Our experience with Grand Design Customer Service has truly been very good. They have reimbursed us for a temporary fridge & freezer, expenses related to ice & lost food due to the failures, etc. General RV was slow to replace the first one (eight weeks at the shop), but stellar replacing the second one (four days) utilizing their "Keep You Camping" program. Since there are horror stories everywhere with every brand (one Newmar owner told me, "They are all glued & screwed together"), we would feel confident sticking with Grand Design based on overall construction & customer service responsiveness.

Tires: We have the Nexen brand tires that came with the truck... I've read about past failures, but they seem to have gotten better with the 2022 & up. Payload on each tire is 3,085 lb in SRW & 2,835 lb each in DRW. 2 x 3,085 = 6,170 lb & 4 x 2,835 = 11, 340 lb. I took the truck to our local, highly regarded tire & suspension shop (Cassidy Tire & Service) and the manager with 32 years in the business said they were wearing well & evenly. He said RAMs typically are hard on the outside treads of the front tires and recommended a $200 rotation when I had 11K on them after our current trip.

 

[OldRamNewRam]

I disagree on your thought of grand design but the info about the truck is spot on the dual wheels add the extra payload.


The issue he had with his brakes would be more likely a dexter issue as the only thing GD has in that respect is the wiring from the 7 pin to the axles the rest is dexter. The issue for him was likely the molded 7 pin as they are not compatible with the ram 7pin and after a while they start to have issues.

My next 5th wheel will likely be a GD since i am trying to shy away from Jayco since they were bought out by Thor in 2016 they quality has taken a dive.


the advertised pin weight is always DRY with nothing but the bare shipping weight so its not hard to add 1000lbs with the basics you need to actually camp

I changed out the 7-pin connector on the camper to the other style, but we were still getting the dreaded "Trailer brake disconnected" warning. I had three different mobile service guys try their hand at fixing it on our 1,000 mile trip back to Illinois, but to no avail. It may have been a grounding issue, a magnet issue, etc. The DW wanted to upgrade anyway to a washer/dryer so it all worked out.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I changed out the 7-pin connector on the camper to the other style, but we were still getting the dreaded "Trailer brake disconnected" warning. I had three different mobile service guys try their hand at fixing it on our 1,000 mile trip back to Illinois, but to no avail. It may have been a grounding issue, a magnet issue, etc. The DW wanted to upgrade anyway to a washer/dryer so it all worked out.

If its not the plug its usually a grounding wire that runs inside the trailer axle tube. They are garbage wire and they rub through and ground on the axle tube

 

[OldRamNewRam]

Sorry, pickup or cab and chassis?

Pickup (with Crew Cab).

 

[AH64ID]

Pickup (with Crew Cab).

While the F-450 P/U is very robust, on paper it has a lower payload than the Ram 3500 or F350 due to the same GVWR and being heavier.

Not that payload is a number I’m concerned about, but if you are the F-450 PU lacks payload compared to the 3500/350 class.

 

[OldRamNewRam]

While the F-450 P/U is very robust, on paper it has a lower payload than the Ram 3500 or F350 due to the same GVWR and being heavier.

Not that payload is a number I’m concerned about, but if you are the F-450 PU lacks payload compared to the 3500/350 class.

Yeah, the heavier brakes (I read 50% bigger?) added steering gear and bigger fenders to accommodate the turning radius, etc. drag down the payload rating. However, I am very content with the RAM 3500 with standard output and 3.73 rear end. I prefer the stellar engine braking vs “go fast” of the other brands with 10 speed trannies as I believe it is more important to save the brakes & be able to stop vs 0-60 times pulling the camper! LOL

@ Erik the Red: And, no, I’ve spent my dime on this truck and am not waiting on the F-450. The dealer will get the order and I am still receiving the 45 day interval build projection emails stating it still hasn’t been scheduled. It may be a 2025 before they catch up!

 

[oledirteh]

Erik, is this a toy hauler? if im right on this, when your loaded youll have some weight in the garage and would likly lighten the pin weight.

hell, i feel old school bumper pulling a 10k trailer with a x3 and 2 4 wheelers lol. next trip out i need to scale it since once the hauler is loaded i suspect im around 13k on my hauler.

 

[ErikTheRed]

Erik, is this a toy hauler? if im right on this, when your loaded youll have some weight in the garage and would likly lighten the pin weight.

Yep it's a toy hauler. I carry a 2020 CanAm X3 2-seater, and yeah, the unit in the garage should lighten the pin weight. By how much? Only a trip to the scale is gonna tell me that. When it comes to towing overweight, I'm not gonna be a goose-stepping Nazi about it but I don't want to be dangerously overweight either. (Yeah I know, I'm gonna get comments like "hey man, even 1 pound overweight is dangerous".) Probably just shoulda bought the dually but what's done is done for now.

 

[oledirteh]

Yep it's a toy hauler. I carry a 2020 CanAm X3 2-seater, and yeah, the unit in the garage should lighten the pin weight. By how much? Only a trip to the scale is gonna tell me that. When it comes to towing overweight, I'm not gonna be a goose-stepping Nazi about it but I don't want to be dangerously overweight either. (Yeah I know, I'm gonna get comments like "hey man, even 1 pound overweight is dangerous".) Probably just shoulda bought the dually but what's done is done for now.

your talking to a guy that towed a amc rebel on a 24 foot deckover equipment trailer 55 miles with a 1999 dodge dakota with a pintle hitch. oh, and it was the v6 dakota at that.

i personally think your fine. the x3 base weight is like 1750. bigger tires, rack, lights ect then about 1900 id suspect. depending if your pulling water along, thats over the wheels, fuel station is in the back.

my toy hauler is 38 ft, 9600 empty, add 100 gallons of water, 30 gallons of fuel, 2021 x3 turbo rr on 32s and all the stuff. pit bike, 2 generators, grill, coolers, people, 1 raptor 700, 1 outlander 700. it adds up lol.