Considering purchasing a gas 3500 Crew Cab long bed dually and my friends think I'm nuts

[RKCRLR]

@UglyViking FWIW my 3500 SRW with auto level and 5th wheel prep (both mentioned as possible by the OP) was 3400lbs new with 3/4 tank of fuel (50 gallon tank) and me in it. Nothing else. A DRW with the same options would easily be over 3800lbs as they are 413 lbs heavier per Ram than an SRW.

Just an observation on RAW.

@RKCRLR you have listed the main benefits of the diesel, but didn’t list then exhaust brake or added stability from a higher FAW.

The diesel will also use less fuel, not more.

The C&C diesel is its own build and has much fewer emissions issues from lighter use as it’s more designed for it.

The rear auto-level will likely work well above RAWR, it’s not something I’d be concerned with if you end up with one in a pickup.

The advantage of a C&C is a much more robust frame and suspension desired for content load at RAWR. It will handle better, and most importantly last longer at the same weight that a 3500 would. Truck campers are hard on frames and suspensions, but a 4500 wouldn’t even notice one.

But how important is the exhaust brake when just loaded to 14K GVWR? Or even GVWR + 5K lb trailer? I've never had a problem overheating my brakes just downshifting my gas engine when going downhill.

I didn't mean the diesel will use more fuel, just that diesel costs more per gallon than gasoline where I live.

Does the C&C still have EGR and particulate filters? From my understanding those are the main things that have problems during repeated short trips.

Again, while I can appreciate a more robust frame from what I've read this thread the 3500 can be loaded above GVWR without problems so I should be fine if I remain within GVWR. I haven't seen what a 4500 C&C outfitted to serve dual purpose as a pickup and camper carrier would cost but it doesn't seem cost effective for a truck that will only see 30K - 45K miles during my ownership. If cost were no object then I'd be going in a different direction.

 

[AH64ID]

But how important is the exhaust brake when just loaded to 14K GVWR? Or even GVWR + 5K lb trailer? I've never had a problem overheating my brakes just downshifting my gas engine when going downhill.

I didn't mean the diesel will use more fuel, just that diesel costs more per gallon than gasoline where I live.

Does the C&C still have EGR and particulate filters? From my understanding those are the main things that have problems during repeated short trips.

Again, while I can appreciate a more robust frame from what I've read this thread the 3500 can be loaded above GVWR without problems so I should be fine if I remain within GVWR. I haven't seen what a 4500 C&C outfitted to serve dual purpose as a pickup and camper carrier would cost but it doesn't seem cost effective for a truck that will only see 30K - 45K miles during my ownership. If cost were no object then I'd be going in a different direction.

Once you’ve used an exhaust brake, even on an empty rig, it’s very obvious how much better it is. I wouldn’t want to do even light mountain towing without one.

Less fuel at a higher cost can still be less money overall.

Yes the C&C has an EGR and DPF but due to the vehicle class they are in a different emissions bracket and are not only tuned different but have different physical emissions components. I’d be much less leery of a C&C with light load use than a pickup.

You can find photos of damaged frames on pickups from large slide-in campers, you won’t find that on C&C’s. Not an issue for most, but it can happen.

 

[Jacob]

My last two company service trucks have been gas (F550.) With the 6.8. They are slow trying to merge onto the interstate. Otherwise no complaints. Reasonably quiet, easy to start in cold weather, doesn't ever break down. Gets about 7.5 mpg just driving and not letting it idle. No issues just kinda uninspired. I wouldn't recommend a 550 unless you need it. You can't take them to discount tire for tires or normal shops for some work such as alignments. Have to go to the big truck shops.

 

[Dave01]

RKCRLR, my 6.4 does a decent job of downshift braking in tow mode, and the brakes are good, but being honest I rely on good working trailer brakes when I tow 8000 lbs. a few times a week. So the trailer is heavier than the truck (I've got almost nothing in the bed) in my case. You have kind of the opposite, the slide in adds weight to the truck and your 5000 lb trailer when you are towing won't add all that much braking, meaning you are relying on the drivetrain and brakes far more than me. Sounds like you are used to your rig being gas and the 6.4 certainly won't be worse, but also certainly won't be the same as a diesel with exhaust brake.

I don't particularly like the idea of a diesel used in a case of start it, run 5 minutes, then shut down as you described. But it's not the end of the world as long as you are also doing some longer drives to properly warm and work the engine. I think if you really want the gas for payload reasons, finish the spec and quote with a dealer and order it. If you want the added braking and towing torque and ability to get Laramie trim, get the diesel.

I know you said you don't see good deals used, but if you go on the various search sites and limit the search to maybe 4 years old you might surprise yourself, find an under 50k mile truck for quite a discount to new. And you'll still have the reliability you want.

 

[gimmie11s]

Braking while hauling or towing at GAWR or GCWR is a great point considering I drive around with my exhaust brake on at all times, even empty considering this pig is 9k lbs unloaded.

Not having an exhaust brake is enough for me to pass on a gas motor in and of itself moving 14k lbs around or more.

 

[Brad83]

I've got a 22 2500 cclb with the 6.4, 4.10s, and auto level rear. With my 5th wheel and everything and everyone loaded for camping I'm hauling 13,700 lbs. I think the truck and engine handle the weight just fine. I live in sw Iowa and it's just hills around here. I pull at 70 on the interstate and if you don't mind putting your foot into it and revving the engine it will do a pretty good job of holding speed. If I'm not worried about hoding my speed I'll get about 8mpg pulling. I normally get about 14-15 running empty at 79. The overload light for the suspension doesn't come on, but I did have it come on once when I had some firewood in the back and had about 2300 lbs of river rock loaded in there.

 

[RKCRLR]

I haven't been able to find a specification for the height of the cab above the bed and I've been given inconsistent measurements. Does anyone have a the specification for the cab height above the bed, both with and without the shark fin antenna?

Thanks

 

[SpeyRam]

I haven't been able to find a specification for the height of the cab above the bed and I've been given inconsistent measurements. Does anyone have a the specification for the cab height above the bed, both with and without the shark fin antenna?

Thanks

I am late to the party here... What model camper do you have and where will you be driving it the majority of the time?

I've got a smaller slide-in truck camper (2800ish lbs wet) on a 3500 Bighorn CCSB SRW with the HO motor. I can tell you that from my exp driving the camper through the Western mountain ranges on 6% grade downhills with all manner of sidewinds etc, that I appreciate the stability and extra towing power of the diesel along with the EB on those long mountain descents. Go w/the diesel option at the very least.

 

[AH64ID]

I haven't been able to find a specification for the height of the cab above the bed and I've been given inconsistent measurements. Does anyone have a the specification for the cab height above the bed, both with and without the shark fin antenna?

Thanks

Ram says 79.3" for a CC DRW. I presume that's with the shark fin, but that's a guess.

 

[RKCRLR]

Ram says 79.3" for a CC DRW. I presume that's with the shark fin, but that's a guess.

That must be total height of the cab, do you have the height of the bed? My camper is 44" from the bed to the bottom of the portion hanging over the cab.

Part of the problem is knowing for sure what the height of the cab vs the shark fin antenna since one option may be relocating the antenna. Do all HD trucks have the shark fin antenna?

 

[dieselscout80]

Using a 6’ level and tape measure my Shark fin to bed floor on my truck is 43.5” and cab to bed floor is 42.5”.

 

[RKCRLR]

Using a 6’ level and tape measure my Shark fin to bed floor on my truck is 43.5” and cab to bed floor is 42.5”.

Thanks for your effort, I appreciate it! Hopefully a 2024 3500 is the same. It's nice to see that the shark fin only makes an inch of difference, must be the angle it is mounted at. Probably not worth relocating it and just raise the camper another inch.

 

[RKCRLR]

One of the things I've wondered is if turning the shark fin antenna around "backwards" would lower the highest point enough to make it worth it.

 

[GeraldRain]

That one isn't that far off from what I'm looking for although it is a ways away from me. It has the level 2 and safety package. But one of the options I'd really like is the auto leveling. Right now I'm speccing out a Big Horn with level 2 equipment, safety, and tech packages; and auto leveling. I'd go to a Laramie if it had a gas engine option. I'd even consider the Laramie with a normal output diesel if I could find a good deal on one because it looks like it would just squek in at the payload I want. But I'm really concerned that a diesel is not a good fit for the way I plan on using the truck and would need to be convinced that the diesel would be a good fit.

Im about to order the same truck. I would avoid the leveling airbags though. Stableloads is more recommended. https://www.torklift.com/rv/stainless-steel-stableload#appguide.

 

[AH64ID]

Im about to order the same truck. I would avoid the leveling airbags though. Stableloads is more recommended. https://www.torklift.com/rv/stainless-steel-stableload#appguide.

The upper stableloads are pretty good, but stay away from the lower stableloads as they can damage your leaf springs.

Auto-level is a much better setup, IMO.

 

[SpeyRam]

The upper stableloads are pretty good, but stay away from the lower stableloads as they can damage your leaf springs.

Auto-level is a much better setup, IMO.

Don’t know where you’ve heard that info about lower stableloads damaging springs? I use them along with aftermarket air bags. I recommend them for heavy loads (slide in TC for ex).

 

[RKCRLR]

Im about to order the same truck. I would avoid the leveling airbags though. Stableloads is more recommended. https://www.torklift.com/rv/stainless-steel-stableload#appguide.

I've ordered a truck (in transport - due November 11) and went for the auto leveling option. From what I researched the auto leveling works good for heavy loads in the 3500 since it is supplemental to the leaf springs while in the 2500 it replaces the coil springs which can cause stability problems with heavy loads.

 

[AH64ID]

Don’t know where you’ve heard that info about lower stableloads damaging springs? I use them along with aftermarket air bags. I recommend them for heavy loads (slide in TC for ex).

You can see it in their design, they bend springs in a manner they aren’t designed to bend.

I don’t know if they still do, but Torklift use to warranty the springs with lower stableloads…. And why would they warrant a product they don’t make unless their product could damage it?

There are far better options.

 

[SpeyRam]

You can see it in their design, they bend springs in a manner they aren’t designed to bend.

I don’t know if they still do, but Torklift use to warranty the springs with lower stableloads…. And why would they warrant a product they don’t make unless their product could damage it?

There are far better options.

It will take a lot to damage the high strength steel in these springs. The overload leafs are just engaged earlier as intended under heavy loads. For my use case (slide in TC) the combo of stable loads and air bags has been a game changer for stability and I’ve had this setup in 3 Rams. Howver, we can move on…

 

[Nick]

The upper stableloads are pretty good, but stay away from the lower stableloads as they can damage your leaf springs.

Auto-level is a much better setup, IMO.

I have a 2020 3500 HD with auto level . Never a problem works great about 50 k towing 15 k 5 th wheel . Very stable when towing .