Considering purchasing a gas 3500 Crew Cab long bed dually and my friends think I'm nuts

[Brutal_HO]

If you do go diesel get the HO, don't worry about the 230lbs. The rear axle is what will carry almost all your weight and it doesn't care what engine you have.

Looking at numbers for even a low equipped HO 3500 DRW, you may hit RAWR and would definitely be over GVWR.

My SRW Limited curb weight ready to roll, hitch fueled, gear, RAW is #3520. A DRW will probably be about he same (empty). That leave 6230 to hit RAWR of 9750 on a 3500 Dooley.

 

[AH64ID]

Looking at numbers for even a low equipped HO 3500 DRW, you may hit RAWR and would definitely be over GVWR.

My SRW Limited curb weight ready to roll, hitch fueled, gear, RAW is #3520. A DRW will probably be about he same (empty). That leave 6230 to hit RAWR of 9750 on a 3500 Dooley.

Yep, same thing when I hit RAWR on my SRW with a full cab.

Doesn’t concern me thou. For private use GVWR doesn’t mean anything.

 

[RKCRLR]

Looking at numbers for even a low equipped HO 3500 DRW, you may hit RAWR and would definitely be over GVWR.

My SRW Limited curb weight ready to roll, hitch fueled, gear, RAW is #3520. A DRW will probably be about he same (empty). That leave 6230 to hit RAWR of 9750 on a 3500 Dooley.

That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards a gas 3500 DRW. It seems like I could easily achieve a 6K lb payload.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I asked a salesman if the auto leveling would work at GVWR with a full payload and he said yes but you know what they say about salesmen. You said you wouldn't haul a 6K bed load with it, may I ask why? It seems it should work OK as long as I don't exceed GVWR and rear GAWR. If it doesn't work as advertised I don't want to restrict my options to trucks with it.

It will work at RAWR, but will also throw code if overloaded.

I don't like running everything at max or over either.

Like every option you add, it also reduces payload (or RAWR capacity if you chose).

 

[Brutal_HO]

Yep, same thing when I hit RAWR on my SRW with a full cab.

Doesn’t concern me thou. For private use GVWR doesn’t mean anything.

I just think he'd be over RAWR on a 3500.

(here's where h3lzsniper comes in to say AAM rates the axle at 40K)

I get that, but the wheels/tires/suspension/frame aren't rated for AAM's axle max.

 

[CdnHO]

I asked a salesman if the auto leveling would work at GVWR with a full payload and he said yes but you know what they say about salesmen. You said you wouldn't haul a 6K bed load with it, may I ask why? It seems it should work OK as long as I don't exceed GVWR and rear GAWR. If it doesn't work as advertised I don't want to restrict my options to trucks with it.

A 3500 crew cab long bed DRW is available in the Big Horn with a gas engine but it will likely need to be ordered. I have quotes. The Laramie, Limited, and Longhorn is only available with diesels.

I did a build and price on a tradesmen dualey and as soon as I pick the 14,000 pound. gross vehicle weight rating option it forced me to choose a diesel engine. I obviously did something wrong. By the way, my fifth wheel has a 5200 pound pin weight and the auto leveling system brings it up level just fine.

 

[RKCRLR]

I just think he'd be over RAWR on a 3500.

(here's where h3lzsniper comes in to say AAM rates the axle at 40K)

I get that, but the wheels/tires/suspension/frame aren't rated for AAM's axle max.

The attached towing guide (I can't remember where I found it) shows the payload for a 3500 DRW gas 4X4 Tradesman as 6700 lbs, the rear base weight as 3226 lbs, and the rear GAWR as 9750 lbs. So that means I could put 6524 lbs of payload directly over the rear axle and not exceed GVWR or rear GAWR. Now I realize that a moderately optioned gas Big Horn will have a lower payload but I'd think it'd still be above 6K lbs and it would be difficult to put all of that over the rear axle although I also realize that I'd have to be mindful of putting 500 lbs of tongue weight on a 2' extended hitch and not exceeding rear GAWR.

 

[mbarber84]

(here's where h3lzsniper comes in to say AAM rates the axle at 40K)

 

[AH64ID]

Despite knowing my local regulations, Ram/AAM ratings, etc. I’d be looking at a C&C for mainly using the truck for a heavy hard side slide in with a trailer. It’s just a much better platform for those campers.

I just think he'd be over RAWR on a 3500.

(here's where h3lzsniper comes in to say AAM rates the axle at 40K)

I get that, but the wheels/tires/suspension/frame aren't rated for AAM's axle max.

On a DRW? That takes around 6K in the bed.

I don’t think he’d be over 9,750lbs on a DRW, but likely exceed the 14K GVWR.

It will work at RAWR, but will also throw code if overloaded.

I have not heard of the 3500 system throwing an overload code, and I know a guy running over 10K RAW on a 2015 which doesn’t have as robust of overload spring setup.

The 2500’s throw an overload code pretty easy.

No issues with mine at ~7,300lbs.

 

[Brutal_HO]

Despite knowing my local regulations, Ram/AAM ratings, etc. I’d be looking at a C&C for mainly using the truck for a heavy hard side slide in with a trailer. It’s just a much better platform for those campers.

Agree

On a DRW? That takes around 6K in the bed.

I don’t think he’d be over 9,750lbs on a DRW, but likely exceed the 14K GVWR.


I have not heard of the 3500 system throwing an overload code, and I know a guy running over 10K RAW on a 2015 which doesn’t have as robust of overload spring setup.

The 2500’s throw an overload code pretty easy.

No issues with mine at ~7,300lbs.

There was a member here a while back that threw a code running overloaded. The only part I don't buy/get is he also claimed the EB was disabled. At some point, it's going to code and stop pumping air to protect the system.

 

[gimmie11s]

Agree



There was a member here a while back that threw a code running overloaded. The only part I don't buy/get is he also claimed the EB was disabled. At some point, it's going to code and stop pumping air to protect the system.

Ha. That was the guy with the "hollow SO" cam wasn't it? Haven't seen him in ages.

 

[tchur1]

That is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards a gas 3500 DRW. It seems like I could easily achieve a 6K lb payload.

I stand by the recommendation that a 4500/5500 would be a better fit. If you are concerned with hauling you can make sure you get a bed that has the proper functionality. You seem to be pretty set on a 3500 w/ Hemi and if thats the case then you should order one, but based on everything you have outlined for your use case, C&C truck would be perfect. It also affords you the ability to get middle and upper trim levels with the Hemi.

 

[RKCRLR]

I stand by the recommendation that a 4500/5500 would be a better fit. If you are concerned with hauling you can make sure you get a bed that has the proper functionality. You seem to be pretty set on a 3500 w/ Hemi and if thats the case then you should order one, but based on everything you have outlined for your use case, C&C truck would be perfect. It also affords you the ability to get middle and upper trim levels with the Hemi.

So, about how much more would a 4500/5500 C&C cost when outfitted with everything necessary to haul my camper and be used as a normal pickup truck? Right now the trucks I'm considering are around $70K. Are there any links to trucks like this?

 

[tchur1]

Truck would likely land between 65 and 70k depending on options and another 5-10k for the bed I would think. I havent had a chance to look for thinks but I would think youd land somewhere between 70-80k all in.

 

[RKCRLR]

Truck would likely land between 65 and 70k depending on options and another 5-10k for the bed I would think. I havent had a chance to look for thinks but I would think youd land somewhere between 70-80k all in.

The custom utility beds that I saw that fit a camper were expensive (like $25K). There are some less expensive solutions but the floor is high and would put my camper higher than I want it to sit. I'm already not considering Ford because I would have to raise the camper 5"-6" to clear the cab.

 

[jsalbre]

A C&C 4500/5500 with a Hemi is derated from 410 to 370 horsepower, though it does have the same 429 ft-lbs of torque. It’ll also ride like a 1800s wagon when unloaded.

 

[UglyViking]

It sort of appears to me that you've made up your mind, but your friends are telling you that you're nuts, and you are trying to convince yourself that you're not, by getting validation from strangers online. Not trying to be rude here, I do it too sometimes. It's a good opportunity to step back, take a breather, and think about what you really want.

From the sound of these 4 pages, it appears that you want something new, and decently loaded, but don't want to spend a boatload of cash, which is why you don't want to step up to a 4500/5500 truck.

For what it's worth, my 2014 Aisin is rated for like 9750 RAWR, and the base weight should be like 3500 max, that nets me 6250 lbs over the rear axle, however the payload is rated for like 5400 lbs, so where does that other ~800 lbs go? Regulation. It goes to the fact that the 3500 is kept within a certain class, which for your case as a personal use vehicle means basically nothing. I've never heard of personally, or read about, anyone getting harassed, denied insurance coverage, etc. for being over payload. If you're over axle rating or tire rating, DOT could in theory hassle you, but I exceptionally rarely hear even about that.

If you are 100% confident you want a gasser, I'd strongly recommend stepping up to a C&C, it may cost a little more, but the resale is gonna be miles better than that of a 3500 gasser. I realize you are talking about keeping it for 15 years, but you're still gonna notice a lot more depreciation in a gasser built like that vs a diesel. In most cases, exclusively personal use DRW 3500s are towing 5th wheels, and the absolute vast majority of those people want to use the diesel lane at truck stops. While there def are folks using it for other things, it's not near the market for personal only use. Business dually use is basically always a diesel, because they are generally towing not hauling. The market for a gasser DRW non C&C is almost non-existent, as you can tell.

Either way, the camper you're talking about is a big boy if you're needing 5500 lbs for it. You should 100% look at a C&C. It's gonna ride like **** unloaded, and it doesn't have a bed by default, but both things can be addressed in some way. It also has the added benefit of a better turning radius, beefier components from the frame to suspension to brakes, and there is an actual legit market for a C&C gasser, that just doesn't exist in the 3500 market. Def check your insurance as another user stated.

The other thing to consider, and I'm not your financial advisor here, but you're putting exceptionally few miles on a vehicle you're spending boatloads of cash on. I'd def look into a used vehicle because you can likely find something that would save you a lot.

I wish you luck with your purchase.

 

[Brutal_HO]

It sort of appears to me that you've made up your mind, but your friends are telling you that you're nuts, and you are trying to convince yourself that you're not, by getting validation from strangers online. Not trying to be rude here, I do it too sometimes. It's a good opportunity to step back, take a breather, and think about what you really want.

From the sound of these 4 pages, it appears that you want something new, and decently loaded, but don't want to spend a boatload of cash, which is why you don't want to step up to a 4500/5500 truck.

For what it's worth, my 2014 Aisin is rated for like 9750 RAWR, and the base weight should be like 3500 max, that nets me 6250 lbs over the rear axle, however the payload is rated for like 5400 lbs, so where does that other ~800 lbs go? Regulation. It goes to the fact that the 3500 is kept within a certain class, which for your case as a personal use vehicle means basically nothing. I've never heard of personally, or read about, anyone getting harassed, denied insurance coverage, etc. for being over payload. If you're over axle rating or tire rating, DOT could in theory hassle you, but I exceptionally rarely hear even about that.

If you are 100% confident you want a gasser, I'd strongly recommend stepping up to a C&C, it may cost a little more, but the resale is gonna be miles better than that of a 3500 gasser. I realize you are talking about keeping it for 15 years, but you're still gonna notice a lot more depreciation in a gasser built like that vs a diesel. In most cases, exclusively personal use DRW 3500s are towing 5th wheels, and the absolute vast majority of those people want to use the diesel lane at truck stops. While there def are folks using it for other things, it's not near the market for personal only use. Business dually use is basically always a diesel, because they are generally towing not hauling. The market for a gasser DRW non C&C is almost non-existent, as you can tell.

Either way, the camper you're talking about is a big boy if you're needing 5500 lbs for it. You should 100% look at a C&C. It's gonna ride like **** unloaded, and it doesn't have a bed by default, but both things can be addressed in some way. It also has the added benefit of a better turning radius, beefier components from the frame to suspension to brakes, and there is an actual legit market for a C&C gasser, that just doesn't exist in the 3500 market. Def check your insurance as another user stated.

The other thing to consider, and I'm not your financial advisor here, but you're putting exceptionally few miles on a vehicle you're spending boatloads of cash on. I'd def look into a used vehicle because you can likely find something that would save you a lot.

I wish you luck with your purchase.

QFT, MANY small and large businesses are ditching diesel for gas due to fleet maintenance costs. Higher payload for service bodies or hauling yet lightweight towing duties it makes sense. That said, even a 1-off not for fleet would probably fare better as a gas C&C on resale - through there is the CDL requirement in commercial use.

 

[RKCRLR]

I don't 100% want a gasser, I just haven't seen a compelling reason why a diesel truck is the best fit for my needs. This truck is going to spend most of its time sitting so it is hard to justify an additional $10K for the diesel (or $13K for a HO diesel). My current gas engine truck has worked fine for my needs with the exception of payload/rear GAWR capability and recently reliability problems. I realize a diesel will have more power but I have never been unable to maintain the speed limit going up hills (when it was working right). I'd hope that a newer truck with more power can offset the additional cargo load I'd be carrying. I am considering used but one of the main reasons I'm upgrading is for reliability and I haven't seen a significant price advantage on a truck that is only a few years old unless it has a lot of miles on it.

I'm trying to understand the advantages of a diesel in my situation.

I understand a diesel will have more power, last longer, and be worth at resale but that isn't a priority over the period I plan to keep it.

But for the time being I'll assume that I'll get the additional $10K for a diesel back when I go to sell the truck in 10 years and I'll ignore that $10K left in investments would be worth ~$25K in 10 years based on the S&P historical average. It would be the price for the extra power in the times I need it.

I'll assume it would be OK to exceed GVWR as long I don't exceed rear GAWR. Will the auto leveling still work as long as I don't exceed rear GAWR?

I'll assume that the additional cost of annual maintenance, fuel, DEF, etc. will be made up by the better fuel mileage of the diesel when it is driven 2K to 3K miles per year. Anyone have some actual numbers on this?

What about the issue that a lot of my driving will short trips and movement around my property with only a few minutes of run time. While this isn't good for gas or diesel engines I've read it is harder on the diesel emissions controls. Is it internet lore or does a diesel work just as good as a gas engine in these conditions?

Also, I don't understand the advantage of a C&C over a gas 3500 which meets my payload needs. I haven't seen a link to what the cost of a C&C outfitted with a bed that keeps the camper height at a reasonable level while being able to function like a regular pickup when the camper is off. Admittedly it would be nice to have a utility bed that would fit the camper but I can't justify a high cost for the little time I'd be using it. The only negative I had with the Big Horn was it wasn't available with leather trim but I wouldn't move to a C&C just for that.

 

[AH64ID]

@UglyViking FWIW my 3500 SRW with auto level and 5th wheel prep (both mentioned as possible by the OP) was 3400lbs new with 3/4 tank of fuel (50 gallon tank) and me in it. Nothing else. A DRW with the same options would easily be over 3800lbs as they are 413 lbs heavier per Ram than an SRW.

Just an observation on RAW.

@RKCRLR you have listed the main benefits of the diesel, but didn’t list then exhaust brake or added stability from a higher FAW.

The diesel will also use less fuel, not more.

The C&C diesel is its own build and has much fewer emissions issues from lighter use as it’s more designed for it.

The rear auto-level will likely work well above RAWR, it’s not something I’d be concerned with if you end up with one in a pickup.

The advantage of a C&C is a much more robust frame and suspension desired for content load at RAWR. It will handle better, and most importantly last longer at the same weight that a 3500 would. Truck campers are hard on frames and suspensions, but a 4500 wouldn’t even notice one.