Fiver/pinbox clearance in full-size bed

[Rich]

So let's dive right into this one. I've got the mopar 30k fiver puck system and it works like a dream so far. I did have to lift it up one set of holes to get 7" clearance from RV overhang to bed rails. So I thought I was golden, until I did a jack knife test to see how much clearance there was from bottom of RV overhang when it went over my folded up tonnue cover. It was good to, 3.5". So here's my problem I never thought of. I assumed ( i know assumption is the mother of all flub ups), that when i bought a ful size pu ( my last was a very narrow ram box short bed) that the pin box would rotate completely inside the bed w/o coming into contact with the bed rails. I was obviously wrong. No damage was done, but the back of my pin box is several inches below rails. And yes I can go up 3 more adjustments on fiver head and set up adj on pin box, but as you all know with the ram the fiver rides high in the nose to start and I really don't want to keep lifting up the front of the RV as the weight its all ready favoring the rear axle. I'm selling this camper ( I'm a fulltimer) in around 18 months and buying a big boy so i really don't want to drop 500-1500 in a new pin box that's shortest and more confined. Also currently when loading and tailgate is down there is only about 8" from rv, so not much to spare all ready and don't know if a shorter pin box would make me hit. Any ideas out there that aren't costly and don't include raising everything all the way up.

 

[PRS]

Sorry to here about this but not surprised as I'm in the same boat. Brand new 3500 DRW 4X4 with a 39' 5th wheel. Trailer is level when hooked up and the wings are below the bed rails. I have a goosebox installed now but the original rotaflex is the same length from pin to bolt holes. When I get to 60 degrees in a turn the wing gusset(the angled part in the 2nd picture) will contact the bed rails. I'm like you and don't want to raise the front of the trailer, so considering a shorter length pinbox. Frantically searching for a resolution to this issue. 60 degrees of turn is not going to be acceptable.

 

[Rich]

Sorry to here about this but not surprised as I'm in the same boat. Brand new 3500 DRW 4X4 with a 39' 5th wheel. Trailer is level when hooked up and the wings are below the bed rails. I have a goosebox installed now but the original rotaflex is the same length from pin to bolt holes. When I get to 60 degrees in a turn the wing gusset(the angled part in the 2nd picture) will contact the bed rails. I'm like you and don't want to raise the front of the trailer, so considering a shorter length pinbox. Frantically searching for a resolution to this issue. 60 degrees of turn is not going to be acceptable.

Yup on not wanting to keep going up. I already went up 1 hole set on fiver head and that equates to 1" for each hole up on mine. My fiver rig is 37'. I've considered cutting the flat back part on the pin box with the wings that would hit. If we were to take the last 3" and cut it up at an angle , it would then clear. But then i would have to relocate a cross piece for durability purposes. I just really don't want to go that route either. Cutting into the pin box might not end up very good. I don't know why i always figured in a fullsize bed that the whole fiver hitch/ pin box would turn w/o fear of hitting anything. Very disappointing. Also want to add to the 8" measurement from tailgate to RV. I also just measured 15" from bumper to RV.

 

[PRS]

Don't think I would be messing with the wings. They're designed like that for a reason and removing the gussets would reduce the strength of the flat piece as well as induce stress risers from the cutting. I understand your reluctance to spending a bunch more money. I'm wondering if an Andersen Ultimate hitch would help. They're not as expensive as a new pinbox. Put the coupler on with the socket behind the pin and it effectively shortens the pin box by at least 4 inches. That should get your clearance from the side rails. Unfortunately it brings the RV closer to the bumper or tailgate by that same 4 inches. Same with a shorter pinbox though too. No good answers I guess.

 

[Rich]

Don't think I would be messing with the wings. They're designed like that for a reason and removing the gussets would reduce the strength of the flat piece as well as induce stress risers from the cutting. I understand your reluctance to spending a bunch more money. I'm wondering if an Andersen Ultimate hitch would help. They're not as expensive as a new pinbox. Put the coupler on with the socket behind the pin and it effectively shortens the pin box by at least 4 inches. That should get your clearance from the side rails. Unfortunately it brings the RV closer to the bumper or tailgate by that same 4 inches. Same with a shorter pinbox though too. No good answers I guess.

Do you have a certain model of Anderson ultimate hitch your referring to that I can read on. Those wings saved me on my last truck. I pulled out of a flying j and the rd dipped and the camper dipped down and those wings went skipping across my ram box, didn't damage nothing bad just ruffed up a patch of plastic. Also that cross member piece at back would most definitely have to be welded back in after the flat spot was cut out and angled up. Thats a major piece of structural integrity to keep the main break from twisting. I'm just trying to think outside the box and save some bucks and not wreck an almost 90k truck, with all my toys added In

 

[Brutal_HO]

Assuming you don't have enough truck to fiver clearance at the gate to run a shorter pinbox, and if you think it would buy you enough room, I'd bob off that back end some to make it angled like almost every other fiver pinbox frame is.

You can't take much off because it looks like your VIN is on there and you probably don't want to leave an unusable hole on the edge.

Just make sure they weld the bottom angle back on for rigidity.

That work will be cheaper than breaking your new truck.

Also, seems like maybe your bakflip rail is costing you some real estate?

 

[PRS]

My bad. With the offset in the top ball on the Andersen and the coupler behind the pin, the pin ends up over the ball in the bed of the truck so you wouldn't lose any clearance at the bumper or tailgate. Just effectively shorten the pinbox for the side rails.
There is a standard version and a tool box version which is shorter on the front side where a toolbox would sit in the bed.
I'm thinking I'm going to try this for my situation.

 

[lovegolf44]

Very interesting topic. Where are our Andersen hitch fellers at to comment?

 

[Rich]

Assuming you don't have enough truck to fiver clearance at the gate to run a shorter pinbox, and if you think it would buy you enough room, I'd bob off that back end some to make it angled like almost every other fiver pinbox frame is.

You can't take much off because it looks like your VIN is on there and you probably don't want to leave an unusable hole on the edge.

Just make sure they weld the bottom angle back on for rigidity.

That work will be cheaper than breaking your new truck.

Also, seems like maybe your bakflip rail is costing you some real estate?

View attachment 4793

Your comment is exactly what I've been considering. I've already drew your moc line yesterday on my pin boxand it's basically exactly the same. I figure i could pay a welder from some company $100 and that would cover it. There's not that much work involved. Not in this picture is a cross member that runs across bottom back of pin box that would most definitely have to be cut and welded higher for strength. Yes your rt, the bak flip rails take up a small chunk of room.

 

[Brutal_HO]

That ambulical elec box isn't doing you any favors either.

I've never seen one not mounted up inside against the front overhang floor.

Guessing maybe you used to have to run the cord to a bumper 7-pin and you moved it there?

 

[Rich]

No, i didn't move it, that's how it came, but yes I did plug into bumper on last model. It's mounted to that cross member piece that i was mentioning i would have to have cut out and relocated higher if i lobbed off the back corner. Honestly I would just do away with that junction box and make sure my connections are secure and sealed in shrink tape.

 

[Plum Cra Zy]

I have an AUH2 and am using middle pin hole on hitch ball and moved my 5th wheel hitch up to upper position on trailer to lower it (hopefully that makes sense?)
Have 7-8 in bed rail clearance and no prob jack-knifing. I do have 5th airborne hitch on my 2013 AF 27-5 that appears to be factory issue, love the ride! Just be warned,
you use your landing gear motor a lot more because you have to lift off of ball. No biggie, just food for thought. I do like that it only weighs 42 lbs too!
Sorry, I don't have any pics

 

[Rich]

I have an AUH2 and am using middle pin hole on hitch ball and moved my 5th wheel hitch up to upper position on trailer to lower it (hopefully that makes sense?)
Have 7-8 in bed rail clearance and no prob jack-knifing. I do have 5th airborne hitch on my 2013 AF 27-5 that appears to be factory issue, love the ride! Just be warned,
you use your landing gear motor a lot more because you have to lift off of ball. No biggie, just food for thought. I do like that it only weighs 42 lbs too!
Sorry, I don't have any pics

Great idea but i just spent 1200 on the mopar 30k puck hitch, Which i actually like allot more than i thought i would . Works great

 

[Brutal_HO]

I have an AUH2 and am using middle pin hole on hitch ball and moved my 5th wheel hitch up to upper position on trailer to lower it (hopefully that makes sense?)
Have 7-8 in bed rail clearance and no prob jack-knifing. I do have 5th airborne hitch on my 2013 AF 27-5 that appears to be factory issue, love the ride! Just be warned,
you use your landing gear motor a lot more because you have to lift off of ball. No biggie, just food for thought. I do like that it only weighs 42 lbs too!
Sorry, I don't have any pics

His problem is the bottom back of that pinbox frame hangs too low. No amount of changing pinbox, hitch, etc is going to get that to clear and still leave room behind his truck.

FWIW, there's one thing I usually disagree with people on and that's the trust I place in 30 lbs of aluminum. Not a fan and would never use one. And yes, I fly in airplanes with aluminum wings.

 

[lovegolf44]

His problem is the bottom back of that pinbox frame hangs too low. No amount of changing pinbox, hitch, etc is going to get that to clear and still leave room behind his truck.

FWIW, there's one thing I usually disagree with people on and that's the trust I place in 30 lbs of aluminum. Not a fan and would never use one. And yes, I fly in airplanes with aluminum wings.

If aluminum is the showstopper, then maybe the Pullrite SuperLite is the way to go. It's steel and pretty light (64lbs) too. Only has 20K capacity though, 4K less than the AUH2. I haven't purchased a hitch yet but with my SRW, I won't be pulling a 20K trailer anyway. I would be busting all my GWs, let alone PL from the pin weight. The big stuff is for you dually fellers.

 

[orlando bull]

I have the AUH, same issue, I'm glad to see it's not just me. I have the exact same pinbox and electrical setup. I have a short bed, so, the electrical also causes me issues on the tailgate. With more angle, I could run the funnel on my hitch the normal way to give more cab clearance, but, as it is, I have to have it in the reversed position. Point being, this effectively shortens the pinbox, so, I think your solution of a shorter pinbox will work. WIth my truck, it's not surprising to have the tailgate issue, but, the side rail clearance shouldn't be any different, I often wondered how a long bed would help at all in that situation.

I have also looked at the Trailair flexair pinboxes, they look flatter, which I think would help because you could run your hitch higher to keep the bed rail clearance and maybe lift things up, but, I havent really dug into that, just something I have noodled on briefly.

 

[Rich]

All good points. I'm so glad I'm not alone in this predicament. I just assumed it would not be an issue on a normal size bed vs my last truck with the narrow bed with ram boxes. So i did find this, and it shows at least 6 different angles of pin box choices. With some measuring to make sure my tailgate wouldn't hit while loading. It appears that most of us have the long version. I think the medium version would be a good comprimise between long and short. I think the short would work great in the bed but you would back your tailgate into rv while loading. The 45 degree telescoping looks good to,but my drop down bream is not angled Like that.

 

[PRS]

I would respectfully resubmit the Andersen. Yes, you already have a hitch, but you're apparently looking at spending on a shorter pinbox. If you put the coupler to the rear on the Andersen, you don't change the trailer to tailgate clearance when aligned but you do effectively shorten the pinbox for the side rail issue. In my research the alternative for me would be a shorter air ride pinbox (Trailair M15) for the side rail issue and a sliding hitch for the cab issue. Adding an over 200# hitch in the bed as opposed to an easily removable 35# pyramid base. Not to mention triple the $$$.
I placed the order for the Andersen last night.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I would respectfully resubmit the Andersen. Yes, you already have a hitch, but you're apparently looking at spending on a shorter pinbox. If you put the coupler to the rear on the Andersen, you don't change the trailer to tailgate clearance when aligned but you do effectively shorten the pinbox for the side rail issue. In my research the alternative for me would be a shorter air ride pinbox (Trailair M15) for the side rail issue and a sliding hitch for the cab issue. Adding an over 200# hitch in the bed as opposed to an easily removable 35# pyramid base. Not to mention triple the $$$.
I placed the order for the Andersen last night.

The AUH puts the ball behind the bed gooseneck. Doesn't flipping the adapter put the pin right back over the gooseneck like it is now with a Hitch? In fact, it even appears to be slightly more rearward or at best the same.

You're not advocating turning the whole hitch around are you?

(P.S.) This pinbox should have the lockout bars installed. FWIW, I'm not ignorant of the requirements of the AUH, not its shortcomings, and know someone that had major issues using a MorRyde sliding pinbox with an AUH and ditched it all for a Goosebox. Those chains and eye bolts A supplies are also for show and will not hold a load in a breakaway situation.



Here's another pic that shows where the kingpin might fall. Oops, maybe that one's a little off.


(Pass side view, tailgate left)

Respectfully, I don't want to turn this into an AUH bashing/defending thread, but I can't get this (and MANY other) images out of my mind.

 

[PRS]

No, I'm not advocating turning the base around. The angle of your first picture makes it hard to discern the location of the pin of the pinbox. It should be located between the two through bolts that have the chains attached. Which puts it back over the gooseball in the bed, which yields no net tailgate clearance change with the trailer in trail. When the angle of the turn progresses this coupler position will effectively shorten the length of the pinbox to address the impact with the side rails by the wings issue.
As for your second picture, we can compare damage on hitches and pinboxes from accidents all day long.
I was simply stating that under normal circumstances, the Andersen hitch connection could address Rich's side rail impact issue. He could also replace his current pinbox with a Trailair M15 and that would physically shorten the pinbox length, but at more cost.
He mentioned he was keeping this trailer for another year, so he may want or need a shorter pinbox to address the same issue on the next rig. After all, they're not building these trucks any less tall.
My last point was just the M15 would not work for me with a Megacab so I would have to add at least a manual slider hitch, which adds substantial weight and cost to my resolution of both the side rail and cab impact issues.