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Carli suspension info

el_barto said:
Most trucks are over-sprung because they are designed to not bottom out with full payload, most trucks ride much smoother with extra weight in the bed. Too soft a spring and you use too much suspension travel on smaller bumps and bottom easily out on bigger ones.
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I see your logic and mostly agree. Trucks are over sprung out of necessity. One could put gladiator coil springs on the rear of thier power wagon and it would probably ride a little softer, and have a little less payload (gladiator has 1200 ish payload). But mostly be the same truck. Then (theoretically) put gladiator shocks on the PW and it would be a mess. Way under dampened (damped?) for the weight.

So how about this.
The shocks play a larger role in comfort and control than the springs.

I believe the salesman at Carlie is just maximizing profit and leading people to believe that they need the whole kit, not just shocks. I don't fault them at all. But I think the importance of buying thier specific spring is over exaggerated.
 
Go watch the video on the Thuren site. Springs play a big part in how the truck rides. Too harsh springs and the shocks cannot soften it. Too soft and the shocks work way to hard to try and stiffen it.
 
That's a great video. Very informative.

One might wonder though. If one can get custom tuned 3.0 King shocks, valved from level 1 to level 6. Level one being a very comfortable highway ride, and level 6 being full race shocks. Wouldn't there be 6 different springs with different rates to go with each valving tier?
 
Springs are a major part of ride quality and of suspension capability. A softer spring is going to ride smoother than a stiffer spring, and a longer coil will permit more droop before compromising the springs' seating in the coil buckets. Springs *always* have to be determined before shocks, because they carry the load. Springs and shocks are paired together because the suspension is a system. You can get away with swapping out individual parts, and there's all sorts of off the wall combo's you can do that will work, but it's best to approach suspension changes in a system-wide approach. Budget is of course a major player, but springs always have to come before shocks - do you want a softer ride, do you want more droop, do you need full OEM carrying capacity, do you want the chassis stability that air bags give due to the wider spring spacing they induce on the 2500 chassis, do you need variable load capacity, etc.? Then shocks pair into that system, preferably tuned for your exact application, but at least tuned for that chassis.

In the modern Ram 2500/3500 I agree that purpose-tuned big boy 2.5+ shocks will make a bigger difference with stock springs, than swapping coils and using smaller shocks will, because the baseline suspension is pretty dang nice in the scheme of things. An opposite example is a 1st gen Cummins - absolutely horrifying springs; better springs make a way bigger improvement.
 
MDethloff said:
Springs are a major part of ride quality and of suspension capability. A softer spring is going to ride smoother than a stiffer spring, and a longer coil will permit more droop before compromising the springs' seating in the coil buckets. Springs *always* have to be determined before shocks, because they carry the load. Springs and shocks are paired together because the suspension is a system. You can get away with swapping out individual parts, and there's all sorts of off the wall combo's you can do that will work, but it's best to approach suspension changes in a system-wide approach. Budget is of course a major player, but springs always have to come before shocks - do you want a softer ride, do you want more droop, do you need full OEM carrying capacity, do you want the chassis stability that air bags give due to the wider spring spacing they induce on the 2500 chassis, do you need variable load capacity, etc.? Then shocks pair into that system, preferably tuned for your exact application, but at least tuned for that chassis.

In the modern Ram 2500/3500 I agree that purpose-tuned big boy 2.5+ shocks will make a bigger difference with stock springs, than swapping coils and using smaller shocks will, because the baseline suspension is pretty dang nice in the scheme of things. An opposite example is a 1st gen Cummins - absolutely horrifying springs; better springs make a way bigger improvement.
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This is what I had tried to say... you're much better with words than I am. It's not that springs don't make a difference, it's just that the stock PW springs are pretty good.
 
Fox 2.0 IFP for Ram 2500, 0-1.5” lift
Pn 985-24-169 (rear) 985-24-168 (Front)
Front vs PW front
AED2CCE9-FC10-46CC-861C-31A09EB1FDDA.jpeg
39F730ED-747C-4731-B090-B3C2CF464B02.jpeg




Rear vs PW rear
4A027601-F365-4086-9D5E-7E83815801DD.jpeg
36360880-E51B-4437-8B89-08B2C18C7AD5.jpeg

Fronts are definitely a bit shorter by like 1/2” or so. Looks like the total stroke is the same though.

Fwiw rears were more of a pita to install than the front. Started at the rear expecting them to be easier, but no.
 
el_barto said:
Fox 2.0 IFP for Ram 2500, 0-1.5” lift
Pn 985-24-169 (rear) 985-24-168 (Front)
Front vs PW front
View attachment 28375
View attachment 28377




Rear vs PW rear
View attachment 28374
View attachment 28376

Fronts are definitely a bit shorter by like 1/2” or so. Looks like the total stroke is the same though.

Fwiw rears were more of a pita to install than the front. Started at the rear expecting them to be easier, but no.
Click to expand...
This is very helpful, thank you
 
Well this is exciting... Very little info yet, but it's coming. Universal e clik for anything with a reservoir. Great for anyone who has already invested in the pin top, fox 2.5's or whatever.
 

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I'm trying to get in touch with a friend who works for FOX and told me about this new system they had been working on.
 
sedonaexpeditionvehicles said:
I know the guys are Carli are experts and I'm a nobody, but in my experience and the considerable research I have done, springs have very little to do with ride quality. A spring's job is to hold the weight up and that's it.. Shock valving has a MUCH bigger impact on handling, comfort, control, and overall feel. There are guys in this thread that have tuned their own shocks and they may agree or disagree, but in the world of recreation (where you don't have a ton of spring selection such as with coil overs) you would tune the shock, not the spring. I think it may be more accurate to say, is that Carli has been unable to successfully tune a 2.0 IFP to handle the considerable rebound with a spring rate as high as a 3500 leaf pack. The piston is just too small.
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I agree shocks are a huge component for ride quality and performance. But springs have a huge effect on the ride and performance of the truck. Shocks control the way the spring responds. With these trucks, a softer spring (within reason) allows the shock to do its job of controlling the momentum and reaction of the spring. Good shocks on a stiff spring don't allow the shock to do much. On a previous truck, I went through several different rear leaf springs with the same shock setup before I found what I wanted. They definitely had a huge effect on the way the truck performed. Also, some springs are linear rate and some are variable rate. That will also have an effect on the way the truck handles. The best overall performance is going to come from replacing springs and shocks. Every little bit helps. But everybody's needs are different.
 
They are developing the ram version now. The universal will be cool for custom jeeps and buggies, or those who have already invested huge money into dominator or pin top Kings for the 2500. I've been watching videos and it looks pretty legit.


Although he never even mentioned it, you can see the SDI clik is installed in his truck. Pretty impressive. Take my money already
 
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I talked to Tyler over at Carli suspension. He said that they are still wrapping up details on the Ford kits before they can mass-produce them. When they are done with that they will start working with the RAMs. Realistically it will be late 2022 before they have these kits available for the RAM.
 
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el_barto said:
Fox 2.0 IFP for Ram 2500, 0-1.5” lift
Pn 985-24-169 (rear) 985-24-168 (Front)
Front vs PW front
View attachment 28375
View attachment 28377




Rear vs PW rear
View attachment 28374
View attachment 28376

Fronts are definitely a bit shorter by like 1/2” or so. Looks like the total stroke is the same though.

Fwiw rears were more of a pita to install than the front. Started at the rear expecting them to be easier, but no.
Click to expand...
Now you have had your foxes and sumo springs for a bit .. what do you think?
 
el_barto said:
Fox 2.0 IFP for Ram 2500, 0-1.5” lift
Pn 985-24-169 (rear) 985-24-168 (Front)
Front vs PW front
View attachment 28375
View attachment 28377




Rear vs PW rear
View attachment 28374
View attachment 28376

Fronts are definitely a bit shorter by like 1/2” or so. Looks like the total stroke is the same though.

Fwiw rears were more of a pita to install than the front. Started at the rear expecting them to be easier, but no.
Click to expand...
1/2" will not be a factor in real world performance. How do they feel compared to stock? I have been hoping Falcon comes out with a shock for the power wagon but I am kind of given up.
 
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