Truck stolen, but recovered

[UglyViking]

Newer Key Fob are/will be designed to stop emitting once they detect no movement (so they know you are not walking to your truck). That type of night attack will no be longer possible with these updated Key Fob.
But AFAIK, RAMs Key Fobs are still vulnerable.

I don't know the current design that RAM uses, but I thought that the keyfob only acted as a "response". Generally, the vehicle will "look" for a key when the door button is pressed. If it finds a fob that contains an allowlisted mac address, it will then attempt to verify the key by checking for it's signal strength, to see if it's within range.

Frankly, I could care less if the keyfob transmits when I'm moving or not, I'd actually prefer not to add yet another potential for complexity and failure, but rather wish they would get more serious with their security. Public/private keys and AES 256 encryption are functionally unbreakable, so long as they are built correctly. If they had rolling codes with public/private keys to validate and were using proper encryption they could send data over the air and even if a hacker was right there, they would never have the correct private keys to decipher the code.

 

[MikeXM]

I don't know the current design that RAM uses, but I thought that the keyfob only acted as a "response". Generally, the vehicle will "look" for a key when the door button is pressed. If it finds a fob that contains an allowlisted mac address, it will then attempt to verify the key by checking for it's signal strength, to see if it's within range.

Frankly, I could care less if the keyfob transmits when I'm moving or not, I'd actually prefer not to add yet another potential for complexity and failure, but rather wish they would get more serious with their security. Public/private keys and AES 256 encryption are functionally unbreakable, so long as they are built correctly. If they had rolling codes with public/private keys to validate and were using proper encryption they could send data over the air and even if a hacker was right there, they would never have the correct private keys to decipher the code.

That is what I though too. But apparently it's always sending. Or at least Key Fob can be waken to send easily which is pretty much the same as always on.

Anyway, here is an example with a JEEP. Pretty much the same I heard about our RAMs. They say here in a "few minutes" instead of seconds which make me think they can somehow force the Key Fob to send something and then they can duplicate the key fob from that point.

YOUTUBE:

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Some cars and bikes, when the motor is started and you drive off without the keyfob, after it is out of range of the keyfob, will shut down. My Genesis was like that along with My Harley and I beleive my G8 did the same, just been a long time since I had them.

I know that some used to do that but i thought i read somewhere they outlawed that now for safety reasons

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Store your Key Fob overnight in a Faraday pouch. There are available widely on Amazon.

Not a chance i hope they take it with the coverage i have on it its worth more stolen or written off than in my driveway lol plus it gives me a reason to replace my 01 with a brand new dually and go down to one truck lol

 

[UglyViking]

That is what I though too. But apparently it's always sending. Or at least Key Fob can be waken to send easily which is pretty much the same as always on.

Anyway, here is an example with a JEEP. Pretty much the same I heard about our RAMs. They say here in a "few minutes" instead of seconds which make me think they can somehow force the Key Fob to send something and then they can duplicate the key fob from that point.

YOUTUBE:

I am guessing that the thief has a raspberry pi or similar that is blasting out "wake" signals to try and get the fob to wake up and send it's mac address and whatever information the truck would normally request. These thefts are possible, but not probable. That jeep is a few years old and I think may have been using an early method that was even easier to steal.

 

[TinGoatTravelers]

God I miss old keys…

 

[Vdrsnk]

That stinks. I had my vehicle broken into in that exact same area. I was told it was because I left a backpack in the back seat. Wasn’t much in the bag, they left that and the car and I had a shattered window.

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

I heard a lot of the hot mopar hellcats and such were being stolen I figured they use the same technology as our trucks.

 

[flan]

God I miss old keys…

Plenty of cars back then stolen with a coat hanger and screwdriver.

 

[tkbenziger]

I have been looking into some anti theft options in an effort to prevent this from happening to me again. I am requesting that my insurance pay to have the truck "rekeyed" per the suggestion of my friend who is the GM of the RAM dealership.

Additionally I am looking into the RAVELCO anti theft device and having this installed. Does anyone here have any experience with this device??

Appreciate everyone's condolences and the sharing of ideas. It's such a sad day in our country where these events have become so common place. Apparently it's not enough to work hard and pay (way to much) taxes. Now we have to work and pay to protect our property..

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I have been looking into some anti theft options in an effort to prevent this from happening to me again. I am requesting that my insurance pay to have the truck "rekeyed" per the suggestion of my friend who is the GM of the RAM dealership.

Additionally I am looking into the RAVELCO anti theft device and having this installed. Does anyone here have any experience with this device??

Appreciate everyone's condolences and the sharing of ideas. It's such a sad day in our country where these events have become so common place. Apparently it's not enough to work hard and pay (way to much) taxes. Now we have to work and pay to protect our property..

Only tried and true method is a starter intruper switch basically a momentary switch hidden somewhere so you have to hold it to crank the motor but any desperate thief will jump the starter with a piece of wire

 

[Deltron]

I imagine you can still put a hidden toggle switch someplace so the vehicle won't start. Theieves won't take the time.

 

[Jimmy07]

I have been looking into some anti theft options in an effort to prevent this from happening to me again. I am requesting that my insurance pay to have the truck "rekeyed" per the suggestion of my friend who is the GM of the RAM dealership.

Additionally I am looking into the RAVELCO anti theft device and having this installed. Does anyone here have any experience with this device??

Appreciate everyone's condolences and the sharing of ideas. It's such a sad day in our country where these events have become so common place. Apparently it's not enough to work hard and pay (way to much) taxes. Now we have to work and pay to protect our property..

There are dozens of different methods you can dream up to interrupt the starter or fuel system.
Here’s what I recently designed and built for a co-worker that was adamant on wanting some type of kill switch device. It’s basically a poor man’s ravelco, doesn’t leave anything that looks aftermarket to tamper with, and there are no switches or buttons that can be discovered.
It intercepts the in-tank fuel pump control wire, redirects it to two open spots on the back of the OBDII port, and if the male OBD port adapter is not plugged into the port, the truck will not start because of no fuel delivery. The wires leading up to the back of the OBD port are wrapped into the factory wire bundle with Tessa tape so it looks factory. I also built an adapter to use when OBD diagnostics is needed.

 

[Vdrsnk]

I will say this about vehicle theft, a guy told me this some years ago and I believe it. These criminals are good, if they are going steal something, they are going to steal it. I’d rather they stole it then have them destroy my stuff trying to steal it and that’s what I’m left with.

I was doing a lot of boating at the time. I had two good sized boats, And they were always in my dock at the vacation house. I was hours from it. I actually just left the boats keys right in them. Seems kinda crazy saying it, but they were fully insured so if they were stolen I wasn’t really out anything other than the hassle which I’d still have even if they they weren’t stolen but damaged.

 

[superjoe83]

There are dozens of different methods you can dream up to interrupt the starter or fuel system.
Here’s what I recently designed and built for a co-worker that was adamant on wanting some type of kill switch device. It’s basically a poor man’s ravelco, doesn’t leave anything that looks aftermarket to tamper with, and there are no switches or buttons that can be discovered.
It intercepts the in-tank fuel pump control wire, redirects it to two open spots on the back of the OBDII port, and if the male OBD port adapter is not plugged into the port, the truck will not start because of no fuel delivery. The wires leading up to the back of the OBD port are wrapped into the factory wire bundle with Tessa tape so it looks factory. I also built an adapter to use when OBD diagnostics is needed.View attachment 42879
View attachment 42880

I was thinking on doing something similar on my truck, but is there anyway to allow remote start while still implementing something to reduce the risk of theft? I'm thinking probably not
EDIT: could you interrupt the brake switch wire? It would allow remote start but would prevent the shifter from coming out of park? Is the park interlock easy to defeat on these trucks?

 

[tkbenziger]

So

I was thinking on doing something similar on my truck, but is there anyway to allow remote start while still implementing something to reduce the risk of theft? I'm thinking probably not
EDIT: could you interrupt the brake switch wire? It would allow remote start but would prevent the shifter from coming out of park? Is the park interlock easy to defeat on these trucks?

So from what I understand the Ravelco has not had any theft when installed and used appropriately. There is a plug that you remove that makes it impossible to start the vehicle. However, you can leave it plugged in when you want and still utilize all remote start functions etc. That is what I like about it. When I am in an area I don't feel is safe I can remove the little plug which is on a Keychain and take it with me. When I am at home etc. I can just leave it plugged in and operate as usual.

Google Search

 

[IndyRamMega]

So

So from what I understand the Ravelco has not had any theft when installed and used appropriately. There is a plug that you remove that makes it impossible to start the vehicle. However, you can leave it plugged in when you want and still utilize all remote start functions etc. That is what I like about it. When I am in an area I don't feel is safe I can remove the little plug which is on a Keychain and take it with me. When I am at home etc. I can just leave it plugged in and operate as usual.

Google Search

I've put a ravelco in many vehicles....pulled the cap the night mine got broke in to a few days ago...smashed my rear windows on both sides and stole some luggage... definitely worth it....

 

[tkbenziger]

I've put a ravelco in many vehicles....pulled the cap the night mine got broke in to a few days ago...smashed my rear windows on both sides and stole some luggage... definitely worth it....

But didn't steal the truck, so functionally they work is what I'm hearing.

 

[mcarey]

I don't know the current design that RAM uses, but I thought that the keyfob only acted as a "response". Generally, the vehicle will "look" for a key when the door button is pressed. If it finds a fob that contains an allowlisted mac address, it will then attempt to verify the key by checking for it's signal strength, to see if it's within range.

Frankly, I could care less if the keyfob transmits when I'm moving or not, I'd actually prefer not to add yet another potential for complexity and failure, but rather wish they would get more serious with their security. Public/private keys and AES 256 encryption are functionally unbreakable, so long as they are built correctly. If they had rolling codes with public/private keys to validate and were using proper encryption they could send data over the air and even if a hacker was right there, they would never have the correct private keys to decipher the code.

Completely unrelated, but I'm shocked by your usage of allowlisted.

A year or so ago I spent a whole ton of hours removing white/blacklist, and replacing them with allow/blocklist.

Never thought I'd come across it on a truck forum of all places.

You happen to work in software by chance?

 

[UglyViking]

Completely unrelated, but I'm shocked by your usage of allowlisted.

A year or so ago I spent a whole ton of hours removing white/blacklist, and replacing them with allow/blocklist.

Never thought I'd come across it on a truck forum of all places.

You happen to work in software by chance?

Haha, yeah I do. I worked as a software dev for a few years and transitioned to product design, but I work very closely with our eng team daily and we are constantly revamping our language so I get all the emails for our internal/external APIs. My new favorite was the push to remove the "disabled/enabled" combo.