Test Drove Ram, Chevy, Ford

[Dave01]

Yeah. That’s what my wife and I feel too. But outward visibility on the Ford was the best of the three in my opinion. No desire at all to go fast. I’m done with that.

I can't say I'm done with that, but I have a Tesla that cures my speed desires. But, I mentioned the difference I've felt with the Powerstroke because I do find that some trucks are more satisfying to drive than others. For example, I chose a 6.4 Ram once I drove a few, but there was no way I could choose a 6.0 gas GM truck at that time. The Ram has power and something happens when you step down, and sounds great with stock exhaust. The 6.0 lags when you push the pedal and delays shifts, I found it totally unappealing. I'm not saying the Cummins is like that, far from it, but thought it was worth mentioning. With what you describe in liking low revving and quiet I'd say the Cummins will feel more low revving, they both are pretty quiet for what they are.

 

[mzflorida]

pre and post DPF DEF

I tried to google that but could not find what it means. Can you explain? Thanks.

 

[tchur1]

I tried to google that but could not find what it means. Can you explain? Thanks.

Youre unfamiliar with what those are in general or what the changes are from '24 to '25?

 

[mzflorida]

Youre unfamiliar with what those are in general or what the changes are from '24 to '25?

I am familiar with DPFs and DEF systems, and I have read a boatload about them both. I don't know what pre and post DPF and DEF mean.

 

[tchur1]

I am familiar with DPFs and DEF systems, and I have read a boatload about them both. I don't know what pre and post DPF and DEF mean.

I believe what @Brutal_HO was referring to there is new systems both before the DPF and after the DEF systems on the new '25s. There have been pretty well documented challenges with '22 and newer trucks emissions systems so it sounds like Ram is addressing those with changes throughout the emissions systems from front to back.

 

[mzflorida]

I believe what @Brutal_HO was referring to there is new systems both before the DPF and after the DEF systems on the new '25s. There have been pretty well documented challenges with '22 and newer trucks emissions systems so it sounds like Ram is addressing those with changes throughout the emissions systems from front to back.

Gotcha. That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Brutal_HO]

I believe what @Brutal_HO was referring to there is new systems both before the DPF and after the DEF systems on the new '25s. There have been pretty well documented challenges with '22 and newer trucks emissions systems so it sounds like Ram is addressing those with changes throughout the emissions systems from front to back.

The current setup is:
Turbo-->Downpipe-->DOC/DPF-->DEF Injection-->SCR

The new setup (appears to be):
(10-blade)Turbo-->SCR with DEF injection(?)-->DOC/DPF-->DEF-->SCR(?)

Hard to say as the intel detail is limited.

 

[mzflorida]

The current setup is:
Turbo-->Downpipe-->DOC/DPF-->DEF Injection-->SCR

The new setup (appears to be):
(10-blade)Turbo-->SCR with DEF injection(?)-->DOC/DPF-->DEF-->SCR(?)

Hard to say as the intel detail is limited.

Thank you. So they are distributing the emissions management across a more robust system reducing load and increasing component life theoretically. Do I have that right?

 

[jebruns]

You know what? I’m not certain the 3500 i tested had the rear air suspension.

The factory air on the one ton will not make much, if any, difference for unloaded driving. It really only kicks in when you have a 600+lb load. Still nice to have, just saying. On the 3/4 ton trucks, it makes a big difference in the unloaded ride.

How about reliability? Do you have any insights into Ford and Ram's reliability and if one is generally more reliable than the other?

Thanks again!

With the current state of pollution control, I would not buy any of the HD trucks with a diesel if it were going to be a daily driver. They are happier with a trailer behind them.

 

[oledirteh]

I had a raptor 700R + tires, parts, and furniture in the back of my 3500 the other day coming down from pa and it rode like a 1500 lol!

ive legit thought about just tossing a couple hundred lbs of something in the bed to tame down the ride when not using it for truck stuff

 

[mzflorida]

The factory air on the one ton will not make much, if any, difference for unloaded driving. It really only kicks in when you have a 600+lb load. Still nice to have, just saying. On the 3/4 ton trucks, it makes a big difference in the unloaded ride.

With the current state of pollution control, I would not buy any of the HD trucks with a diesel if it were going to be a daily driver. They are happier with a trailer behind them.

I can't disagree on that risk associated to the emissions controls. We tossed around buying a previous generation truck only for towing. I would not drop the amount of cash required for a new truck for only towing. I'm not cheap....well maybe I am (I prefer frugal); who knows? A new vehicle sitting and depreciating in the storage facility just does not sit right with me.

 

[mzflorida]

I had a raptor 700R + tires, parts, and furniture in the back of my 3500 the other day coming down from pa and it rode like a 1500 lol!

ive legit thought about just tossing a couple hundred lbs of something in the bed to tame down the ride when not using it for truck stuff

I've tossed that around in convos with my buddies to do the same thing.

 

[jebruns]

I can't disagree on that risk associated to the emissions controls. We tossed around buying a previous generation truck only for towing. I would not drop the amount of cash required for a new truck for only towing. I'm not cheap....well maybe I am (I prefer frugal); who knows? A new vehicle sitting and depreciating in the storage facility just does not sit right with me.

Yeah, I understand. I only have 16K miles on my 22, which I bought new. We have other vehicles for every day stuff, so we were already in the "truck = hauling" mode. And we don't have to rent storage. We put up a building on our acreage for the RV, truck and an enclosed trailer.

We live in the Ozark Mts, and the gas 3/4 ton I had before I got into Ram Cummins back in '20 just could not pull some of our hills at or near the speed limit. Maybe I'm old school, but I can't stand to drive a car/truck with the RPM's in the 4K or more range. The diesel experience is SO much more more relaxed and confident, and will easily hold whatever speed I want. But if I lived in flatter country, I may have looked harder at the 6.4. But only because of emissions issues on all the modern diesel HD's.

 

[wrvond]

My previous: 2017 F350 Lariat Crew Cab 6.7L Power Stroke 4x4 Dual Rear Wheel Long Bed 4.10 rear end purchased new.
My current: 2023 2500 Laramie Sport Mega Cab 6.7L CTD (SO) 4x4 Single Rear Wheel Short Bed 3.73 rear end purchased new.

Things I liked about the Ford:
1. a very quiet, smooth engine. Except for the fuel and DEF requirements you'd think you were driving a gasser.
2. very comfortable seat(s). I spent 24 hours a day a week at a time in the driver's seat. I'm 6'4" so there was no comfortable way to sleep in the back seat. I ended up simply reclining the driver's seat and sleeping there.
3. a small thing, but I really liked the combination lock on the driver's door. Allowed me to leave keys and wallet in the truck and still get back in (at the beach especially).
4. gobs and gobs of immediate authoritative power. I felt like that truck could pull a house off it's foundation.
5. dash electronics/functions/tech just worked. No muss, no fuss.
6. the aluminum body. Loved that! The peace of mind knowing body rust would never be an issue was amazing.
7. 48 gallon fuel tank.
8. "lockable" storage bin under the back seat.
9. power telescoping steering wheel.
10. the "upside down" engine. Conventional design has the intake on top and the exhaust down low. Ford reversed that, reducing turbo lag significantly (among other benefits).
11. Ruby Red Metallic was striking. People actually stopped me in parking lots and drive thrus to tell me what a beautiful truck it was.

Things I didn't like about the Ford:
1. fuel mileage. I averaged between 12 and 15 mpg depending on the wind direction. I didn't have a problem with this until I compared it to guys driving Ram duallys.
2. the back seat did not fold flat. The backs would fold down, but not flat and not able to support much weight. The seat bottoms flipped up and forward taking up room I needed for the front. Laying the back seat flat meant I lost the storage bin underneath, so not an option if carrying stuff under there.
3. when the truck was turned off, all power was dead - no mirror fold, no USB ports, no 12v outlet - nothing. I had to leave the truck in ACC to use a 12v electric blanket in the winter and a fan in the summer.
4. 2017 was the first year the F350 DRW had TPMS. The system caused corrosion of the aluminum wheels at the valve stems and the wheels wouldn't hold air. Ford would do nothing to correct this (still hasn't as far as I know) and right up till the day I traded it in I had to add air to the tires before leaving home.
5. while handy, the Ford tailgate step is a pretty poor design. It's location leaves it vulnerable to damage. It's easily bent and doesn't always fit well in it's stowed position.
6. the CP4 fuel pump. I lived in constant fear my fuel pump was going to grenade and destroy the entire fuel system (my biggest negative).
7. the chrome over aluminum (especially the steps) bubbled up.

Things I like about the Ram:
1. the back seats. I don't ride back there but I really like that they recline as well as fold flat a couple different ways. Lots of room back there.
2. when I turn the truck off I've still got power to the 12v outlet on top of the dash.
3. the 12" Uconnect 5.
4. I like the bed step. It doesn't look like much, but it's hands-free operation and gets the job done very well.
5. the center console. I've updated mine to the "Limited" storage bin cover. The console is nicely compartmentalized with lots of useable storage and a place to put a couple phones as well.
6. the CP3 fuel pump!
7. the interior looks more upscale than the equivalent Ford Lariat.

Things I don't like about the Ram:
1. the driver's seat has a hard spot in it that gets uncomfortable after an hour or two.
2. I couldn't get a long bed Mega Cab (would have still been shorter than my 24 foot long F350).
3. the stupidly low cargo carrying weight capacity. Not losing any sleep over it, but I think Ram could have done a better job with this.

Side note: the F350 and 2500HD both operated in pretty much the same RPM range.

I recently went on Ford and Ram's websites to "build" 2025 models of my fantasy trucks. Turns out neither could generate a truck that I like better than the one I have.

 

[Finn5033]

First I’d like to say I had a 2020 Ram ecodiesel and it is my favorite truck I’ve ever had. Only got rid of it because we needed an HD for our current RV/fish house.

We ended up with a 2021 Silverado 3500 gasser. So I can’t speak on the duramax, but I actually really liked that truck, towed great for a gasser, loved the rear seat space and flat floor. The standard bed length on them is 6’-10” which was nice as well. So they are significantly bigger and you can tell. But I agree with you, my biggest gripe with that truck was the seats were uncomfortable. After almost two years in that truck I decided I wanted a diesel.

So now I’m in my 2022 Ram 2500 Cummins. I miss the rear seat area of the Chevy but the seat is plenty big for my daughter and our dogs so it’s fine. I do not miss the overall size of the Chevy. The diesel is awesome for towing and my daily 80 mile round trip commute. The Ram trucks have always felt like the right fit for me. I’ve owned 5 different 1/2 tons and now my Cummins. Every time I’ve tried something else I end up coming back.

All that being said you can probably get an amazing deal buying a 2024 right now. As others have said don’t bother with the 2500 just get a 1 ton. They all have problems so I don’t think one will be better in that regard than the others.

 

[Brutal_HO]

The factory air on the one ton will not make much, if any, difference for unloaded driving. It really only kicks in when you have a 600+lb load. Still nice to have, just saying. On the 3/4 ton trucks, it makes a big difference in the unloaded ride.

With the current state of pollution control, I would not buy any of the HD trucks with a diesel if it were going to be a daily driver. They are happier with a trailer behind them.

I disagree.

The spring pack on the air trucks is different and does improve the unloaded ride over the non air truck.

My air assist truck rides surprisingly well once you drop the tire pressures to reasonable values for unloaded driving.

 

[Dave01]

I've tossed that around in convos with my buddies to do the same thing.

About adding some weight in the bed ... I have a 2500, not 3500, but in winter I put about 500 lbs of sand in the bed, helps rear wheel traction plus balances the plow. The truck maybe rides better with the weight, but I do find that I feel it when stopping, actually enjoy taking it out in the spring. But like someone said, a 2500 with air rides pretty well anyway.

 

[gimmie11s]

I currently have a '22 3500 and have really liked the truck but am pretty close to pulling the trigger on a new f350 for 2 primary reason:
1) I cant fit a carseat comfortably behind the driver seat in the Ram - our car seat hits the back of both the driver and passenger seat unless my wife is driving - the ford cab is larger and has more room for the car seats. Considering my daughter is 8 months old and likely 1 or 2 more on the way in the next 6 years or so - I want the increased cab size for the family.

2) Reliability of the emissions systems - I LOVE the Cummins and it was the reason I got my Ram initially but the '22 and newer trucks seem to be a nightmare emissions wise. I daily my truck along with towing and its just not as reliable as I would like. Ive had 3 emissions systems codes come and go with no rhyme or reason. I just dont trust the truck at this point. Ford changed how they regen on the 23+ Powerstrokes and add a 9th injector to heat the DPF which seems to be working pretty well and has significantly shortened regen cycles compared to what I see in the Ram. I think both trucks will have their issues but I see less emissions related issues on the Ford forum than I do here.

YMMV based on use case, both are great trucks.

The emissions on these Ram trucks is a damn shame... along with the lifters.

That said, the Powerstroke runs the CP4 pump and aftermarket companies are making a killing selling "disaster prevention kits" for when the pump decides to take a dump on you.

Choose wisely.

 

[jenninr]

I use my truck for daily driving and towing. I was looking at a 2500 until I rode in a 3500 with air and it rides very similar to a 2500. After that I was sold on the 3500 and I have had an around 18-19K gooseneck behind it and a 12k bumper pull and it tows like a dream. I also feel more confident in the Aisin Transmission that you can get in the 3500. Of course if you go with a 2025 they both get the ZF which based on other ZF transmissions I have driven should be a great upgrade from both of the previous options.

 

[mzflorida]

My previous: 2017 F350 Lariat Crew Cab 6.7L Power Stroke 4x4 Dual Rear Wheel Long Bed 4.10 rear end purchased new.
My current: 2023 2500 Laramie Sport Mega Cab 6.7L CTD (SO) 4x4 Single Rear Wheel Short Bed 3.73 rear end purchased new.

Things I liked about the Ford:
1. a very quiet, smooth engine. Except for the fuel and DEF requirements you'd think you were driving a gasser.
2. very comfortable seat(s). I spent 24 hours a day a week at a time in the driver's seat. I'm 6'4" so there was no comfortable way to sleep in the back seat. I ended up simply reclining the driver's seat and sleeping there.
3. a small thing, but I really liked the combination lock on the driver's door. Allowed me to leave keys and wallet in the truck and still get back in (at the beach especially).
4. gobs and gobs of immediate authoritative power. I felt like that truck could pull a house off it's foundation.
5. dash electronics/functions/tech just worked. No muss, no fuss.
6. the aluminum body. Loved that! The peace of mind knowing body rust would never be an issue was amazing.
7. 48 gallon fuel tank.
8. "lockable" storage bin under the back seat.
9. power telescoping steering wheel.
10. the "upside down" engine. Conventional design has the intake on top and the exhaust down low. Ford reversed that, reducing turbo lag significantly (among other benefits).
11. Ruby Red Metallic was striking. People actually stopped me in parking lots and drive thrus to tell me what a beautiful truck it was.

Things I didn't like about the Ford:
1. fuel mileage. I averaged between 12 and 15 mpg depending on the wind direction. I didn't have a problem with this until I compared it to guys driving Ram duallys.
2. the back seat did not fold flat. The backs would fold down, but not flat and not able to support much weight. The seat bottoms flipped up and forward taking up room I needed for the front. Laying the back seat flat meant I lost the storage bin underneath, so not an option if carrying stuff under there.
3. when the truck was turned off, all power was dead - no mirror fold, no USB ports, no 12v outlet - nothing. I had to leave the truck in ACC to use a 12v electric blanket in the winter and a fan in the summer.
4. 2017 was the first year the F350 DRW had TPMS. The system caused corrosion of the aluminum wheels at the valve stems and the wheels wouldn't hold air. Ford would do nothing to correct this (still hasn't as far as I know) and right up till the day I traded it in I had to add air to the tires before leaving home.
5. while handy, the Ford tailgate step is a pretty poor design. It's location leaves it vulnerable to damage. It's easily bent and doesn't always fit well in it's stowed position.
6. the CP4 fuel pump. I lived in constant fear my fuel pump was going to grenade and destroy the entire fuel system (my biggest negative).
7. the chrome over aluminum (especially the steps) bubbled up.

Things I like about the Ram:
1. the back seats. I don't ride back there but I really like that they recline as well as fold flat a couple different ways. Lots of room back there.
2. when I turn the truck off I've still got power to the 12v outlet on top of the dash.
3. the 12" Uconnect 5.
4. I like the bed step. It doesn't look like much, but it's hands-free operation and gets the job done very well.
5. the center console. I've updated mine to the "Limited" storage bin cover. The console is nicely compartmentalized with lots of useable storage and a place to put a couple phones as well.
6. the CP3 fuel pump!
7. the interior looks more upscale than the equivalent Ford Lariat.

Things I don't like about the Ram:
1. the driver's seat has a hard spot in it that gets uncomfortable after an hour or two.
2. I couldn't get a long bed Mega Cab (would have still been shorter than my 24 foot long F350).
3. the stupidly low cargo carrying weight capacity. Not losing any sleep over it, but I think Ram could have done a better job with this.

Side note: the F350 and 2500HD both operated in pretty much the same RPM range.

I recently went on Ford and Ram's websites to "build" 2025 models of my fantasy trucks. Turns out neither could generate a truck that I like better than the one I have.

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That is absolutely awesome that you took the time to write that up. I’m willing to bet that’s going to be helpful to more than just me. I’ll add more later to this.