Regens at alarming rate!

[mbarber84]

Under those conditions would it not perform a passive regen?

Yeah i would expect that.

 

[jak]

Under those conditions would it not perform a passive regen?

What is a "passive regen"?

 

[jak]

I think you better find another dealer.

Have another dealer scan the ecm and pull the codes. Post them here.

DEF is not directly tied to the DPF or regeneration.

The truck will absolutely perform an active regeneration while the truck is under load and at highway speeds. That’s actually the best time for it to happen.

I thought it was odd that it would make a difference. Coincidently there was another fella in there hauling a camper (with the same problem as me) and they told him the same thing. Gonna keep an eye on things and see what happens next trip.

 

[mbarber84]

What is a "passive regen"?

Passive regeneration is when the trucks engine is working hard enough that the exhaust gas temperature rises significantly, and gets the DPF hot enough that the trapped soot is burned away automatically, without any sort of other input.

Active regeneration is when fuel is added to the exhaust stream to artificially increase the DPF temperature in order to burn the soot out.

Passive regeneration should occur naturally anytime you’re working the truck for a length of time. Ideally pulling a load on the interstate at highway speeds for 30 minutes or more. (Can be less time but passive regeneration works more slowly than active regeneration so the longer the towing trip, the better)

Active regeneration occurs in two forms. The first is when the emissions monitoring system detects there’s a specific amount of soot captured in the DPF, usually the on-screen DPF gauge will be about 50% when the cycle is triggered. The second type of active regen occurs every 24 hours of engine operation. Whichever scenario happens first will trigger the cycle. Either soot-load based, or time based. Once the cycle is complete the timer automatically resets.

 

[mbarber84]

I thought it was odd that it would make a difference. Coincidently there was another fella in there hauling a camper (with the same problem as me) and they told him the same thing. Gonna keep an eye on things and see what happens next trip.

Yeah they don’t sound very knowledgeable.
See if you can get a print out of the codes in the ECM. It should be noted that there are several DEF related trouble codes that, if left uncorrected, can lead to a de-rate countdown scenario.

 

[joshuaeb09]

Yeah they don’t sound very knowledgeable.
See if you can get a print out of the codes in the ECM. It should be noted that there are several DEF related trouble codes that, if left uncorrected, can lead to a de-rate countdown scenario.

I’d concur with that. Dealer clearly doesn’t know their ass from a hole in ground. Every time I’ve been pulling something down the highway and hit the 24hr active it runs for all of like 4-5 minutes at most since DPF is already hanging out around 900 + passively if I’m in one of our 75 mph plus zones with a heavy enough trailer. Those get me the best clean outs based on DPF differential pressures.

 

[jebruns]

Did a 13 hour highway/interstate run yesterday, pulling my bass boat. I watched the DPF gauge some, but it was always at 0, or close to it. Just don't see anything that would cause me enough concern to monitor it any further. Have 6K miles on the truck now.

 

[OLEJOE]

I’ve got a new 22’ 2500 I got new on May 3rd this year. Dealer installed some new parts and had to flash some sales codes and I think it reset the regen timer. It did a regen at 14 hours shortly (less than 5 minutes) after leaving the dealership and seems to be repeating every 23-24 hours. We did a 2000 mile trip towing a 7k lbs TT and I didn’t notice it doing an automatic regen during that time but I’m sure it did passive regens while towing. At 5100 miles now and hoping the way it’s doing holds out. I did use a bottle of the HSS Extreme on the first 80 gallons of fuel we used starting the trip. Ran the 900+ mile trip home nonstop except fueling and 2 weeks later dpf gauge still hasn’t moved off of zero. Love the truck and keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn’t have any problems develop .

 

[spib]

I finally figured out my truck's pattern. Just so happens that to get to my office, I have about 4-5 miles of slow highway driving in the morning (think 55 mph) and then I hit a hill (we call it a mountain in the south) that's about 2.5 miles long and about 6% grade. Obviously the truck has to work a little harder coming over that hill and it seems to be that little climb that triggers the active regen. The engine is obvisouly not warm at all and its loading the DPF up with soot on that climb. It triggers an active regen 2 out of 3 trips up that hill. It can trigger the active regen even if the DPF filter gauge shows 0% or 1/8th full when I start eh truck in the morning.

First, for those with knowledge, does that indicate a certain problem or is that somewhat normal? Second, I have an alternative route I can take that will add 15-20 mins to my commute but will be a little faster driving and while I will still have to go over a little climb, the truck would be much more warmed up. Third, the good news is that (i) the truck completes the active regens just fine and (ii) out on the interstate/highway at 70+ mph it passively regens and is just fine.

Any insight into this is appreciated.

I am seeing a similar pattern with the dpf gauge and exhaust regeneration in my truck. This may be sort of long, but I'm going to take my time and describe what I think might be relevant. First, a brief history, next how I drive it, then about jasmith's pattern, and finally my WAG.

My truck is a '22 tradesman 2500 cummins with about 25k miles bought in Dec '21. It came from the factory without the particulate sensor, and I havent seen a recall notice for this yet. I try to find the cheapest fuel in town, usually Kroger, and have not used any fuel additives. I have changed the oil at 10k intervals using rotella t6 5-40 and have changed the fuel and air filters once. There have been no CEL lights except for the time that rodents chewed up the harness on top of the engine and made the throttle body unhappy. Also I disconnected the grid heater relay from the battery, that seems to light the money light some. It has been to the dealer I purchased it from one time for the recalls involving the backup camera, the traction control light and the tailgate latches. I left with little to no confidence in this particular service department.

When it was newish (up to 10k mi) I did not drive it around town as I had an old toyota I used for that purpose. The toyota ended up needing expensive repairs to keep it road worthy and the Ram is just so much nicer to drive ... I got rid of the toyota. Back and forth to town about is 10 miles each way, very little city stop and go mostly 45mph county roads. About 3 times per month a 225 mile round trip to see grandkids, on a rather flat 65mph state highway. I also tow about 3 times a month, a 160 mi round trip, pulling a flatbed trailer with a tractor or a mini track hoe. Trailer weights are 5t or so with the tractor and 6.5t or so with the hoe. These towing trips are on moderately hilly, 55mph state roads. Total towing distance is around 5.8k miles according to the truck.

Before I started reading the dpf horror stories here, I left the center guage on "boost" almost all the time. I drive with a light touch on the skinny pedal around town, never getting above low single digits. Visiting the kids, I use cruise control as much as possible, auto exhaust brake when I think of it, and again typically not more than low single digit boost. Towing I use tow mode, auto exhaust brake and cruise control. This actually uses the cummins. Quite alot of exhaust brake activity. Boost in the teens quite often, into the 20+ range sometimes for a couple of minutes and a few hills that almost peg the boost meter (34psi).

The dpf guage seems to go up in discrete steps. When the truck was newish, I never saw anything but zero, but I didnt look much and didnt drive it around town much then either. Since Ive been paying attention Ive seen one step that is just below what I guess is 12.5% full, four (?) more steps up to just below 50%. I've never seen it beyond 50% but have caught the regeneration notice showing a few times.

I'll mention that I've read the dpf horror stories so I started leaving the guage on the dpf screen, and thought to record hrs and miles when it regens. Driving around town it sits at zero or one notch. Often changes when the truck has been off for a day.

So here is what seems to me to be a similar pattern as jasmith described:

Soon after I went to full time dpf guage watching it was at one notch when I started a towing trip with the 5t trailer. It climbed to just below half within 5 mi. It then started a regen cycle lasted about 20 miles / 30 minutes after which the dpf guage showed zero. For the next 570 miles / 16hrs of around town and unloaded state highway travel it showed zero or one notch. I started another trip pulling the 6.5t trailer. The guage went up from 1 increment to just below half, and then started a regen within 5 mi. It finished the cycle in about 15mi / 20min leaving the guage at zero. Another week / 200 mi of around town driving goes by with the guage at zero. I start anothor trip pulling the 6.5t trailer. Dpf guage climbs two increments in the first 5 mi, fluctuates between 1 and two increments until I got to the longest steepest climb of the trip, where it went to zero and has stayed there for the most recent few trips to town.

Finally, my WAG as to why it does this.

The trucks without the particlate sensor must have different software. Im guessing this software is quick, dirty, cheapest possible and intended to be replaced soon. The ecm SHOULD use air flow, engine load, boost pressure, and probably more in addition to the dpf differential pressure sensor to estimate soot load of the dpf. However it does not. It uses only the differential pressure sensor, which is why loading the engine makes the guage go up and sometimes triggers a regen. Let me repeat this is just a wild guess. But one might speculate on what other kinds of related problems are rooted in poorly written software. Unrelated problems too ... Ive also got the 8.4 inch non navigation uconnect 5 radio and what a strange brew that is.

 

[jasmith348]

I am seeing a similar pattern with the dpf gauge and exhaust regeneration in my truck. This may be sort of long, but I'm going to take my time and describe what I think might be relevant. First, a brief history, next how I drive it, then about jasmith's pattern, and finally my WAG.

My truck is a '22 tradesman 2500 cummins with about 25k miles bought in Dec '21. It came from the factory without the particulate sensor, and I havent seen a recall notice for this yet. I try to find the cheapest fuel in town, usually Kroger, and have not used any fuel additives. I have changed the oil at 10k intervals using rotella t6 5-40 and have changed the fuel and air filters once. There have been no CEL lights except for the time that rodents chewed up the harness on top of the engine and made the throttle body unhappy. Also I disconnected the grid heater relay from the battery, that seems to light the money light some. It has been to the dealer I purchased it from one time for the recalls involving the backup camera, the traction control light and the tailgate latches. I left with little to no confidence in this particular service department.

When it was newish (up to 10k mi) I did not drive it around town as I had an old toyota I used for that purpose. The toyota ended up needing expensive repairs to keep it road worthy and the Ram is just so much nicer to drive ... I got rid of the toyota. Back and forth to town about is 10 miles each way, very little city stop and go mostly 45mph county roads. About 3 times per month a 225 mile round trip to see grandkids, on a rather flat 65mph state highway. I also tow about 3 times a month, a 160 mi round trip, pulling a flatbed trailer with a tractor or a mini track hoe. Trailer weights are 5t or so with the tractor and 6.5t or so with the hoe. These towing trips are on moderately hilly, 55mph state roads. Total towing distance is around 5.8k miles according to the truck.

Before I started reading the dpf horror stories here, I left the center guage on "boost" almost all the time. I drive with a light touch on the skinny pedal around town, never getting above low single digits. Visiting the kids, I use cruise control as much as possible, auto exhaust brake when I think of it, and again typically not more than low single digit boost. Towing I use tow mode, auto exhaust brake and cruise control. This actually uses the cummins. Quite alot of exhaust brake activity. Boost in the teens quite often, into the 20+ range sometimes for a couple of minutes and a few hills that almost peg the boost meter (34psi).

The dpf guage seems to go up in discrete steps. When the truck was newish, I never saw anything but zero, but I didnt look much and didnt drive it around town much then either. Since Ive been paying attention Ive seen one step that is just below what I guess is 12.5% full, four (?) more steps up to just below 50%. I've never seen it beyond 50% but have caught the regeneration notice showing a few times.

I'll mention that I've read the dpf horror stories so I started leaving the guage on the dpf screen, and thought to record hrs and miles when it regens. Driving around town it sits at zero or one notch. Often changes when the truck has been off for a day.

So here is what seems to me to be a similar pattern as jasmith described:

Soon after I went to full time dpf guage watching it was at one notch when I started a towing trip with the 5t trailer. It climbed to just below half within 5 mi. It then started a regen cycle lasted about 20 miles / 30 minutes after which the dpf guage showed zero. For the next 570 miles / 16hrs of around town and unloaded state highway travel it showed zero or one notch. I started another trip pulling the 6.5t trailer. The guage went up from 1 increment to just below half, and then started a regen within 5 mi. It finished the cycle in about 15mi / 20min leaving the guage at zero. Another week / 200 mi of around town driving goes by with the guage at zero. I start anothor trip pulling the 6.5t trailer. Dpf guage climbs two increments in the first 5 mi, fluctuates between 1 and two increments until I got to the longest steepest climb of the trip, where it went to zero and has stayed there for the most recent few trips to town.

Finally, my WAG as to why it does this.

The trucks without the particlate sensor must have different software. Im guessing this software is quick, dirty, cheapest possible and intended to be replaced soon. The ecm SHOULD use air flow, engine load, boost pressure, and probably more in addition to the dpf differential pressure sensor to estimate soot load of the dpf. However it does not. It uses only the differential pressure sensor, which is why loading the engine makes the guage go up and sometimes triggers a regen. Let me repeat this is just a wild guess. But one might speculate on what other kinds of related problems are rooted in poorly written software. Unrelated problems too ... Ive also got the 8.4 inch non navigation uconnect 5 radio and what a strange brew that is.

I took my truck out to my dealer this morning to have them clear the CEL that

I finally figured out my truck's pattern. Just so happens that to get to my office, I have about 4-5 miles of slow highway driving in the morning (think 55 mph) and then I hit a hill (we call it a mountain in the south) that's about 2.5 miles long and about 6% grade. Obviously the truck has to work a little harder coming over that hill and it seems to be that little climb that triggers the active regen. The engine is obvisouly not warm at all and its loading the DPF up with soot on that climb. It triggers an active regen 2 out of 3 trips up that hill. It can trigger the active regen even if the DPF filter gauge shows 0% or 1/8th full when I start eh truck in the morning.

First, for those with knowledge, does that indicate a certain problem or is that somewhat normal? Second, I have an alternative route I can take that will add 15-20 mins to my commute but will be a little faster driving and while I will still have to go over a little climb, the truck would be much more warmed up. Third, the good news is that (i) the truck completes the active regens just fine and (ii) out on the interstate/highway at 70+ mph it passively regens and is just fine.

Any insight into this is appreciated.

I took my truck to the dealer this morning to have them clear the CEL (and confirm that it was the frequent regen issue). I got a little lucky in that the advisor I was dealing with was on vacation so I got to talk to the service manager directly.

They have had another truck with the same issue that they recently discovered had 2 bad injectors and that seemed to solve the problem. So, they wanted to keep my truck and get some new injectors in it (assuming they are bad). We have a trip in about 10 days so I'm happy to have them do anything they think will help. I've seen some folks mention on here that a bad/spitting injector could be causing the issue, seems like they might have been correct. Keeping my fingers crossed I get it back Saturday or Monday with the next inectors and issue resolved. We'll see and I'll report back.

 

[mbarber84]

Bad injectors will definitely cause excessive regeneration. They’re now responsible for more than just making the engine run, they also dose the fuel in for active regeneration cycles. So if you have one or more that are not operating properly you could definitely have issues. Cummins / Ram’s decision to use the primary fuel injectors to add fuel for emission regeneration was, in my opinion, a poor one. A 7th independent injector post-turbo would have been a better choice. Dosing the fuel from the engine represents too much risk of complications and takes away a substantial portion of the reliability of the engine.

 

[BLUERIVERHAULER]

I am having same issues . I pull Rv’s from Indiana to dealers. Alway loaded one way and unloaded back. All highway miles. No regeneration while loaded . Regen’s about ever 40 to 100 miles unloaded. It regens so often that it melts my rear rock flap. Have taken to dealer several times. They say it’s fixed and it regens before I get home. I am about 45 miles from dealership. Not only does the attempted fixes cost money but down time cost more. I started process of ordering new truck but now rethinking that. These trucks cost a lot of money. They should be fixable. I hope someone finds a fix and they come back and post it.

 

[mbarber84]

I am having same issues . I pull Rv’s from Indiana to dealers. Alway loaded one way and unloaded back. All highway miles. No regeneration while loaded . Regen’s about ever 40 to 100 miles unloaded. It regens so often that it melts my rear rock flap. Have taken to dealer several times. They say it’s fixed and it regens before I get home. I am about 45 miles from dealership. Not only does the attempted fixes cost money but down time cost more. I started process of ordering new truck but now rethinking that. These trucks cost a lot of money. They should be fixable. I hope someone finds a fix and they come back and post it.

Start with your air filter. Are you running the correct part number air filter?

 

[BLUERIVERHAULER]

Start with your air filter. Are you running the correct part number air filter?

Yes running oem filter with correct number.

 

[Woodywoodpecker]

ab or aa mine was doing the same thing had aa filter changed to ab filter have driven empty 200 miles and gauge only just went to 1/8 aa is white with glue strips ab is orange no glue strips

 

[BLUERIVERHAULER]

ab or aa mine was doing the same thing had aa filter changed to ab filter have driven empty 200 miles and gauge only just went to 1/8 aa is white with glue strips ab is orange no glue strips

Ab. Just put in new filter. Old was a little dirty.

 

[NVYCHF]

My 2019 Ram regens about every 300 miles at 40% last year had the DPF replaced under warranty last week half way thru regen check engine light came on said DPF full see dealership their doing a forced regen tomorrow after the first incident I leave on DPF gauge so I know where it’s at I haven’t tried yet but I’m still plan trying Lucas oil makes a DPF cleaner !

They changed my DPF earlier this year, still does regens every few hundred miles. I have most of them logged; everytime I notice a change in the filter percentage i catch the milage and the new level.

 

[2/7 Gunfighter]

P2459 means that your truck is running active regeneration cycles more frequently than what it should be. Not less.
If you recently changed your engine air filter, that’s the first place to start. If you’re running a stock air intake, you need a Mopar 53034051AB or a Fleetguard AF27684 air filter in there. Any other air filter in that box is a gamble and can definitely cause more frequent regenerations. If you are running one of the above filters, then you have other issues at hand. Either on the emissions side or the engine side of the system. Either something is causing the truck to run less efficiently and send more soot or contaminants downstream to the DPF, or something with the DOC / DPF is not operating or reading correctly.

P203F means that your DEF level sensor is reading low. It could have been caused by you allowing the fluid to get too low, however it can also be caused by overfilling the DEF tank.

The DEF level sensor in the tank uses an ultrasonic sensor that sends out a kind of sonar wave. The way it and the tank are designed, when the tank is at its rated capacity, there is an air gap between the top of the tank and the top of the fluid. That air gap is critical. If you fill the tank higher than it’s rate capacity, that air gap is lost. When this happens, the sonar wave doesn’t return correctly and the level sensor can’t read the level. It sometimes defaults to a “0” reading.

You can also have this code if you’ve left the fluid too low, and the fluid has crystallized and covered the level sensor. Adding fresh fluid doesn’t always remove all of the crystals. Again, causing a false reading.

It is absolutely best practice to run the tank down to no lower than 1/4, then add 2.5 gallons of fresh fluid. That will bring you back to around 3/4 full. Just repeat this process continually and you’ll avoid a whole host of DEF related issues with this system.

If the dealer doesn’t understand P2459, you need to seek assistance from a more capable service department. That code is one of the most complex issues to try and nail down, and most of these dealerships do not have quality diesel technicians. They’ll likely start throwing parts at it, and you’ll ultimately be returning the truck for the 7th, 8th, 9th, time etc.

Took my truck to a different dealer this time and they found that the catalytic converter is failing internally so they’re replacing that. According to the service rep, the catalytic converter failing is what caused code P2459-00 (Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Frequency) and is causing the truck to try to perform regen cycles to clean out the catalytic converter, so replacing the catalytic converter should resolve the issue with my truck running regen cycles too frequently. Does that seem right though? Doesn’t the regen cycle just clean the DPF?

 

[superjoe83]

Took my truck to a different dealer this time and they found that the catalytic converter is failing internally so they’re replacing that. According to the service rep, the catalytic converter failing is what caused code P2459-00 (Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Frequency) and is causing the truck to try to perform regen cycles to clean out the catalytic converter, so replacing the catalytic converter should resolve the issue with my truck running regen cycles too frequently. Does that seem right though? Doesn’t the regen cycle just clean the DPF?

Technically there are 2 catalysts in the exhaust system, the first one is the DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst) which during a regen oxidizes unburnt fuel to raise the exhaust temp into the DPF, the DOC/DPF is one assembly on ram trucks and would get replaced as a unit, the second catalyst is the SCR (selective catalytic reduction) and is used for Nox reduction by using DEF for a chemical reaction.
Hopefully they fixed it properly and there are no underlying problems that they could have missed.

 

[2/7 Gunfighter]

Technically there are 2 catalysts in the exhaust system, the first one is the DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst) which during a regen oxidizes unburnt fuel to raise the exhaust temp into the DPF, the DOC/DPF is one assembly on ram trucks and would get replaced as a unit, the second catalyst is the SCR (selective catalytic reduction) and is used for Nox reduction by using DEF for a chemical reaction.
Hopefully they fixed it properly and there are no underlying problems that they could have missed.

Thanks for the explanation. And I won’t be holding my breath on it being fixed properly. I’ll have to look at the paperwork when I pick up the truck and see exactly what they did. When the service rep texted me, he told me they were replacing the DPF converter. When I asked him to clarify, he said he meant the catalytic converter. So I’m not sure he really knows what exactly the diesel tech was replacing.