Power Wagon Alignment/Tire Pressure

[jetrinka]

So I wanted to post about my journey with this truck as it relates to alignment, how it drives and tire pressures - and how they (I believe) relate to each other.

Keep in mind this should (in my opinion) only relate to the Power Wagon model and much of this is only my observations/opinions/experience on things. It should not be taken as the end all and I much appreciate any suggestions or corrections to what I am saying and this is more of a storyline than anything. Take it for what you will. I tend to be like a dog with a bone sometimes.... I also have the opportunity to do all this work myself - I have been an automotive technician for 15 years now and have access to a well supplied shop and alignment machine.

The Symptoms: I own a 2021 75th PW, bought brand new in August of this year. Ever since picking it up I was very unhappy with the alignment on the vehicle. I think we can all agree that the factory alignment on these trucks SUCKS. When I bought the vehicle the steering wheel, in order to keep the vehicle driving straight, was literally to the left at about 10 o'clock. Keep in mind the roads in my area are quite crowned in most places (more on this later) but even on perfectly level ground it was at least 11 o'clock. I decided to ignore this issue at first thinking the springs may do some settling, affect the geometry of the suspension and take some of this away - at least if it took some away I could then have it realigned with a clear conscience.

The suspension did not settle any after 1000 miles (at least to my measurements) and the steering remained the same. At the time I wasn't happy with this but also did not want to take the vehicle to the dealer to have it aligned. I assumed the toe would have been perfect from the factory and decided to just adjust the drag link to recenter the steering wheel.

(Note about the drag link adjustment for anyone that wants to know. Our trucks use a double adjuster nut and one clamp instead of the sleeve/double clamp style of previous generations. It is a nice setup because it is 1: easy to adjust and 2: keeps the outer drag link "split" aligned with the opening of the clamp taking the guesswork out of positioning the clamp in the optimal position for tightening the joint. If one is looking down the drag link from the drivers side of the truck adjusting the nut clockwise will move the steering wheel to the left and moving it counter-clockwise will move the steering wheel right. This will not affect the toe angle so if you've had the truck aligned at the dealer and are not happy with the steering wheel position just loosen the drag link clamp nut (18mm nut) and move the nut to the desired position (it does not require a lot of movement - I move the nut maybe a 1/16" at a time one direction and then drive the vehicle to recheck - adjust more if needed. Marking your starting point works too) and then tighten the clamp nut to 55 lb/ft (this is the spec but goodntight works too).)

Back to my story. I re-centered the steering wheel to where I liked it. Keep in mind if your roads are crowned (like mine) you will need to find a road with minimal crown to do this. The best test is to drive around and if you find a road you think is not crowned take your hands (safely) off the steering wheel and if it tracks exactly the same as it did with your hands on the wheel chances are you've found your test road.

I was more pleased with the truck after this but it still wasn't perfect. Now I was battling road crown, but also how the truck reacted to it. It seemed like I was always compensating for it which was exhausting. Even though the steering was centered and true on those glorious straight roads I was still compensating (for what I felt) too much to the left for the crown. I hated it.

I read about Thuren and their alignment specs. The short and sweet of it is that due to the tie rod setup on this vehicle total toe should be set to zero. The toe settings from the factory are a positive toe setting which basically means the front tires are pointed towards each other (ever so slightly). This works well on independent front suspension setups or even solid front ends where the drag link intersects the tie rod in the middle but not on trucks like ours where the tie rod travels from knuckle to knuckle. Since this is a rigid and non-changing connection zero total toe works best. The stock alignment tends to make the front tires constantly fight each other resulting in bad handling. So I put the truck on the alignment rack and took a look.

My alignment was not as horrible as some have reported (judging from factory alignment specs) but the alignment was certainly not close to what Thuren recommends. Toe was (if I remember correctly) about .25 degrees total. Caster was relatively similar side to side. I called Thuren and they advised I leave caster alone and just set the toe to zero and see how it feels. I took their advice and set it to zero total. After adjusting the drag link again to center the steering to what I believe is center I drove the vehicle and was initially very pleased with how it drove. The steering seemed easier and although the truck still wanted to follow crown it didn't feel as exhausting to correct for it. I was happy (for the time being).

 

[jetrinka]

AAAANDDDD because I am limited to 10000 characters per post, here is the second half

A month or so went by and I eventually ended up being unhappy again. Once again because it felt like I was still trying to compensate too much for road crown. (see note above about me being like a dog with a bone.....). I started thinking maybe I had the drag link adjusted wrong so I adjusted it so that even during crown events the steering wheel was centered, only to be frustrated with the steering wheel being way off to the right on straight non-crowned roads. I adjusted it back and forth and then started getting more frustrated. Then I started thinking/reading about tire pressure.

To this point I never really thought about it. I am sure there are people much smarter than I am who can shed more knowledge on this subject but tire pressure started intriguing me. We own HD Ram trucks. Meant to (in their natural form) basically haul a bunch of weight and do it safely. Weeeeelllll we own Power Wagons. What is a Power Wagons purpose? In my (humble) opinion it is a compromise between a seriously offroad capable vehicle and a seriously capable hauling/towing vehicle. While the body, axles, brakes etc are the same its been revealed that multiple suspension components are different. Namely the springs and front swing arms. The springs are softer and the front arms incorporate a 3rd bushing as well as a smaller arm meant to help off-road performance. In my opinion this makes for an inherently softer and more compliant (see wishy washy) ride. While this isn't a problem I do believe it is a problem when it comes to realizing what a Power Wagon is meant for/what tire pressures should be set to.

Yes they are very capable vehicles. Yes they "can" haul a decent amount (this truck tows the same trailers I have better than my old 01 Cummins) but if one is trying to help the Power Wagon accomplish what it is meant to best they should be honest with themselves about its capability and try to help it be its best. Tire pressure.

As I said recently I've been reading more and wondering about the tire pressure recommendations of the door. 60 PSI front and 65 PSI rear. I don't know for sure but this is likely very similar to a Cummins equipped non-Power Wagon 2500 (I'd guess the rear would read 80PSI.). Regardless I cannot understand why they would sell an offroad oriented, load carrying compromised pickup without differing (drastically I guess) the recommended tire pressures. I have always just made sure the truck had these tire pressures and never thought anything of it. I was also though frustrated with the seemingly lack of traction of the rear of the truck in most conditions.

We had a recent snowfall here and while the truck performed great the rear of the truck always seemed to track weird. It seemed like in slick conditions the rear of the truck would track farther to the ditch than the front of the truck - almost crab walking (keep in mind this is my perspective and I have no concrete ways to back up that this was happening. I do however have 15 years experience driving all sorts of vehicles and feel I am more "in tune" to how they drive and behave). Wet conditions no crab walk feeling but was very frustrated with the lack of traction from a stock from the rear axle - spinning tires all the time (no it doesn't make THAT MUCH powa.... lol).

Like I said I was reading more on this forum and others about owners lowering their tire pressures to sometimes (in my opinion) abominable levels. HOW DARE YOU!!!! Some people chalked their tires to get the best tread pattern on the ground and others it was just a "it feels better" thing. Well I called Thuren again and revealed my tire pressures to which they immediately told me to lower them. So I swallowed my pride, ignored the TPMS light and did.... I lowered them to 45 front and 40 rear.

So far, and I don't completely understand why, I am very pleased. Yes the ride is less harsh but the vehicle seems to track sooooo much better. Yes it still follows road crown but it is much less drastic than it was before. It is so much more comfortable and the adjustments needed for road crown seem much less so.

I don't know enough about how tires behave but I can only imagine that less contact patch (from being overinflated for the weight on them) and the fact that they are bouncier (see overinflated basketball) may contribute to them more drastically following crown. All I can say is that so far I am quite happy and more driving will tell. I do think that there is value to treating the Power Wagon for what it is in comparison to the other trucks. I don't know how to reconcile the Hemi (less heavy) equipped 2500 and 3500 trucks that may have similar problems but I also think the suspension setup on our trucks has sometime to do with how these things manifest.

The short version is if you are unhappy with how the truck drives lower your tire pressures, keep the front pressures more than the rears (as long as you are not hauling a lot) and have the trucks toe set to zero. Should make a big difference. And no it will never be perfect because its not an IFS truck. Compromises people - compromises.

Please feel free to ridicule and correct me! I am all ears!

 

[jadmt]

I have posted it before but toyo tire has a great guide for setting your psi based on your tire size and trucks actual weight. I run my e rated 35’s at low 40’s in front and low 30’s in back. Mine does not follow road crown and steering is perfect and contrary to what people think it does not have an impact on mpg and i have perfect tire wear.

 

[jetrinka]

I have posted it before but toyo tire has a great guide for setting your psi based on your tire size and trucks actual weight. I run my e rated 35’s at low 40’s in front and low 30’s in back. Mine does not follow road crown and steering is perfect and contrary to what people think it does not have an impact on mpg and i have perfect tire wear.

Your posts are actually what influenced me a lot. Thank you for those. Could you post that link here?

 

[jadmt]

Your posts are actually what influenced me a lot. Thank you for those. Could you post that link here?

StackPath

my PW loaded to the gills with GFC and bed loaded with gear, me the wife and the dog..
and not so loaded. Fully loaded I am over my PW gvwr which is 8565 and there is no need to have my E rated tires pumped up so high.

 

[Chris85xlt]

After i purchased my 2022 PW, the first thing i had to do was to center the steering wheel lol. i also tried playing around with the tire PSI and settled for 55/55. i felt 45/40 caused my gas mileage to drop and handling felt a little sloppy.
Ill try zeroing the toe to see if it makes any difference but im somewhat used to its solid axle handling characteristics from driving a Jeep Wrangler for 12 years haha. I do all the mods and alignments myself and i find 1/16" toe-in to be the sweet spot for my wrangler.

 

[Grain hauler]

My 19 has new "E" rated 35x12.50x17 Dura Trac tires. Aired down to 45f/40r, then started down from there. Best numbers for "me", empty bed. Tires up to temp, approximately 5 miles of driving, 30* outside temperature. 42f/35r. Good control feedback through steering wheel, ride is good, full tire track. Again, fits "my" Wagon

 

[2powerwagons]

My 19 alignment always seemed fine. I am now running 35X12.50 Baja Boss A/T tires on it. 40 rear 45 front. Rides nice. Mileage is worse though.

 

[Danny Cameo]

So I wanted to post about my journey with this truck as it relates to alignment, how it drives and tire pressures - and how they (I believe) relate to each other.

Keep in mind this should (in my opinion) only relate to the Power Wagon model and much of this is only my observations/opinions/experience on things. It should not be taken as the end all and I much appreciate any suggestions or corrections to what I am saying and this is more of a storyline than anything. Take it for what you will. I tend to be like a dog with a bone sometimes.... I also have the opportunity to do all this work myself - I have been an automotive technician for 15 years now and have access to a well supplied shop and alignment machine.

The Symptoms: I own a 2021 75th PW, bought brand new in August of this year. Ever since picking it up I was very unhappy with the alignment on the vehicle. I think we can all agree that the factory alignment on these trucks SUCKS. When I bought the vehicle the steering wheel, in order to keep the vehicle driving straight, was literally to the left at about 10 o'clock. Keep in mind the roads in my area are quite crowned in most places (more on this later) but even on perfectly level ground it was at least 11 o'clock. I decided to ignore this issue at first thinking the springs may do some settling, affect the geometry of the suspension and take some of this away - at least if it took some away I could then have it realigned with a clear conscience.

The suspension did not settle any after 1000 miles (at least to my measurements) and the steering remained the same. At the time I wasn't happy with this but also did not want to take the vehicle to the dealer to have it aligned. I assumed the toe would have been perfect from the factory and decided to just adjust the drag link to recenter the steering wheel.

(Note about the drag link adjustment for anyone that wants to know. Our trucks use a double adjuster nut and one clamp instead of the sleeve/double clamp style of previous generations. It is a nice setup because it is 1: easy to adjust and 2: keeps the outer drag link "split" aligned with the opening of the clamp taking the guesswork out of positioning the clamp in the optimal position for tightening the joint. If one is looking down the drag link from the drivers side of the truck adjusting the nut clockwise will move the steering wheel to the left and moving it counter-clockwise will move the steering wheel right. This will not affect the toe angle so if you've had the truck aligned at the dealer and are not happy with the steering wheel position just loosen the drag link clamp nut (18mm nut) and move the nut to the desired position (it does not require a lot of movement - I move the nut maybe a 1/16" at a time one direction and then drive the vehicle to recheck - adjust more if needed. Marking your starting point works too) and then tighten the clamp nut to 55 lb/ft (this is the spec but goodntight works too).)

Back to my story. I re-centered the steering wheel to where I liked it. Keep in mind if your roads are crowned (like mine) you will need to find a road with minimal crown to do this. The best test is to drive around and if you find a road you think is not crowned take your hands (safely) off the steering wheel and if it tracks exactly the same as it did with your hands on the wheel chances are you've found your test road.

I was more pleased with the truck after this but it still wasn't perfect. Now I was battling road crown, but also how the truck reacted to it. It seemed like I was always compensating for it which was exhausting. Even though the steering was centered and true on those glorious straight roads I was still compensating (for what I felt) too much to the left for the crown. I hated it.

I read about Thuren and their alignment specs. The short and sweet of it is that due to the tie rod setup on this vehicle total toe should be set to zero. The toe settings from the factory are a positive toe setting which basically means the front tires are pointed towards each other (ever so slightly). This works well on independent front suspension setups or even solid front ends where the drag link intersects the tie rod in the middle but not on trucks like ours where the tie rod travels from knuckle to knuckle. Since this is a rigid and non-changing connection zero total toe works best. The stock alignment tends to make the front tires constantly fight each other resulting in bad handling. So I put the truck on the alignment rack and took a look.

My alignment was not as horrible as some have reported (judging from factory alignment specs) but the alignment was certainly not close to what Thuren recommends. Toe was (if I remember correctly) about .25 degrees total. Caster was relatively similar side to side. I called Thuren and they advised I leave caster alone and just set the toe to zero and see how it feels. I took their advice and set it to zero total. After adjusting the drag link again to center the steering to what I believe is center I drove the vehicle and was initially very pleased with how it drove. The steering seemed easier and although the truck still wanted to follow crown it didn't feel as exhausting to correct for it. I was happy (for the time being).

Hi all,
Just bought a 22 PW last week. Thanks for the great info!
Yep right Out of dealer lot, I thought it was a really windy day once I hit the freeway on the way home, yes it was pulling right! thought it was just the wind next time I drove it was 2 days later again on the freeway for a short jaunt and again it was pulling right! Couldn't figure it out spoke to my Jeep mechanic at 4 Wheel Parts and he recommended this site
After reading this was a common problem I took the advice advice and Thuren recommends to him. They tossed it on the hunter and we set it to the advised specs! Also straightened the steering wheel!
I took it out for a quick test drive sure enough it was gone!
Salesman texted me earlier that day and asked me how I was liking the power wagon as they wanted their 5 star review from FCA CanadaI told him it was pulling right he said oh service will take care of that lol, I said no thanks, Yeah you'll still get your review, yet Service is not touching it.
Anywho currently on a 3000 mile road trip with 3 stops, have done 1500 miles so far and it's straight straight down the highway! Not having too much trouble with the big girl
The mechanic texted me and asked me how I was liking it as well and I told them my only complaint would be that it's got BumpSteer, Especially going through the towns to get gas and hitting spring potholes!
Being a 30 year Jeep guy! Lifting many many jeeps, X j's, J10's and J20's.
There are many Jeep guys who claim (weigh-in here if you like) that once a Jeep/Truck/Suv is lifted Over a certain height, usually 3" a drag link flip is needed to obviously get the geometry back, to closest to stock as possible! steering stabilizers are always a thing of contention, usually on forums! some guys love them! And swear by them, other some guys swear that if your setup is correct you don't need!
I've found in 30 years of lifting jeeps/Trucks That it's a little of both! It needs to be set up correctly and a steering stabilizer does help definitely! Especially on washboard roads such as logging roads.
I think with such a heavy vehicle this high up in the air still stock height, A drag link flip is not need yet, I think a steering stabilizer kit would definitely help! Not really planning on lifting it at this point just ordered 37's and wheels and that's enough for now!
Danny