Payload on 2500 and 3500

[kobra]

For sure! I'd love to have a 3500 right now as we look at 5th wheels. Having extra capacity is a great thing. I just have no intention of selling my near perfect truck because I'll be over in payload on a truck "artificially" capped at 10k gvwr. I'm not selling this bad boy until the 1500 cab and a new transmission gets put on the HD models.

And I totally agree, towing a massive triple axle toy hauler with any srw is a terrible idea. Idk that I'd even want a drw 3500 towing some of these beasts. Maybe an f450 or 4500 at the very least

I also just saw this gem like 2 days ago on the toy hauler group I joined....

What could possibly go wrong? You just load the garage with lots of heavy toys, there will be hardly any tongue weight so they'll be just fine with the payload of a 2500.

Right up there with "hold my beer, watch this"

B

 

[kobra]

What about 3500 DRW? Vs SRW Both have leafs...

We can say wheelbase not suspension?

DRW's have even heavier rear suspension, and 4 tires vs 2 tires. There's a lot of reasons that will be more stable.
But now we are comparing apples and oranges, right?

I'm just not sure why you have such a hard time grasping the differences in suspension. So, I'm done here. Carry on if you like.

B

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

What could possibly go wrong? You just load the garage with lots of heavy toys, there will be hardly any tongue weight so they'll be just fine with the payload of a 2500.

Right up there with "hold my beer, watch this"

B

The 2500 can easily take 12k gvwr its only capped at 10k by ram as a sales tactic to sell more 3500s

 

[LossPrev]

What about 3500 DRW? Vs SRW Both have leafs...

We can say wheelbase not suspension?

I would wager the 3500 srw suspension is almost identical to the drw suspension. Maybe an extra leaf and/or overload leaf. It is purely the extra tires on the ground and a wider "stance". Tires are often times the limiting factor in weight ratings...having more of them helps

What could possibly go wrong? You just load the garage with lots of heavy toys, there will be hardly any tongue weight so they'll be just fine with the payload of a 2500.

Right up there with "hold my beer, watch this"

B

Gotta put a couple 250 gallon water totes in the back so that I can "safely" tow my toy hauler. Kinda sucks there's no room left for any toys :-(

 

[kobra]

The 2500 can easily take 12k gvwr its only capped at 10k by ram as a sales tactic to sell more 3500s

Partly true, but it also keeps the 2500 under a class 3 truck, which matters for registration and insurance costs in some areas.
I agree that you have the capacity; look at the GAWR's on RAMs... in some model years the 2500s and 3500 SOs had the same axle ratings.

I would disagree with the sales tactics between the models; actually I think RAM has this more sorted out than the others. They have intentionally gone to a coil spring rear on the 2500s as that fits with the GVWR class. That choice makes it the best riding 3/4 ton out there.
But, when they need to get that GVWR up and they are now in a class 3 truck, they are back to leaf springs. I know first hand that the ride quality suffers.

So, I would say it a different way - I think their choices are sales tactics and good ones at that. You can get your softer ride and still have a towing beast, or really work the snot out of it with the leaf springs. They seem to be eating some of Chevy's lunch the past couple of years so maybe it's working.

B

 

[sstoner911]

DRW's have even heavier rear suspension, and 4 tires vs 2 tires. There's a lot of reasons that will be more stable.
But now we are comparing apples and oranges, right?

I'm just not sure why you have such a hard time grasping the differences in suspension. So, I'm done here. Carry on if you like.

B

Well, really some would argue that nether suspension nor weight matter because the connection point for bumper pull is a spherical ball and the trailer will do what a trailer does and only the friction sway bars etc make any difference at all.

Coming from an engineering background I can attest that that is probably more accurate, however, just having a few extra pounds in the right places can't hurt in the larger picture.

 

[LossPrev]

Yeah, I would also agree with Kobra on the sales tactic part. They're still just following the old 10k cap game that all brands played until very recently. Now that Ford and GM stopped playing it wouldn't be surprised to see Ram also offer an 11k-ish rating.

I don't think Ram cares about pushing people to 3500s at all. 2500s outsell 3500s consistently and the msrp is barely any different. You also get the limited slip diff standard on the 3500 so the true cost increase is even less

 

[sstoner911]

Partly true, but it also keeps the 2500 under a class 3 truck, which matters for registration and insurance costs in some areas.
I agree that you have the capacity; look at the GAWR's on RAMs... in some model years the 2500s and 3500 SOs had the same axle ratings.

I would disagree with the sales tactics between the models; actually I think RAM has this more sorted out than the others. They have intentionally gone to a coil spring rear on the 2500s as that fits with the GVWR class. That choice makes it the best riding 3/4 ton out there.
But, when they need to get that GVWR up and they are now in a class 3 truck, they are back to leaf springs. I know first hand that the ride quality suffers.

So, I would say it a different way - I think their choices are sales tactics and good ones at that. You can get your softer ride and still have a towing beast, or really work the snot out of it with the leaf springs. They seem to be eating some of Chevy's lunch the past couple of years so maybe it's working.

B

Ya I can attest to registration fees...Arizona gets another 120 bucks because 1 ton....haha

 

[LossPrev]

Well, really some would argue that nether suspension nor weight matter because the connection point for bumper pull is a spherical ball and the trailer will do what a trailer does and only the friction sway bars etc make any difference at all.

Coming from an engineering background I can attest that that is probably more accurate, however, just having a few extra pounds in the right places can't hurt in the larger picture.

The suspension type/stiffness and sway bars(not on the hitch, on the rear suspension) will definitely play a big role. Have someone hold onto your shoulders while standing straight up and try to push you side to side. Now do the same thing but move your legs wider stance. The first way is "the 2500" and the second is "3500/3500 drw"

The friction bars help fight the leverage of a hitch out behind a truck. My hitch ball is just about a foot behind my truck. Combined with the tongue and 33.5' trailer, thats a lot of leverage force being applied to the back of the truck.

 

[sstoner911]

The suspension type/stiffness and sway bars(not on the hitch, on the rear suspension) will definitely play a big role. Have someone hold onto your shoulders while standing straight up and try to push you side to side. Now do the same thing but move your legs wider stance. The first way is "the 2500" and the second is "3500/3500 drw"

The friction bars help fight the leverage of a hitch out behind a truck. My hitch ball is just about a foot behind my truck. Combined with the tongue and 33.5' trailer, thats a lot of leverage force being applied to the back of the truck.

The trailer is going to.pivot on the ball the same....just doesn't affect the tow rig as much.....and that is all the difference you will probably notice watching from another vehicle.
..your connection point .
Bumper pull vs gooseneck is really where it's at since your trailer is more part of the tow rig vs swinging on a ball a the end of the tow rig.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The suspension type/stiffness and sway bars(not on the hitch, on the rear suspension) will definitely play a big role. Have someone hold onto your shoulders while standing straight up and try to push you side to side. Now do the same thing but move your legs wider stance. The first way is "the 2500" and the second is "3500/3500 drw"

The friction bars help fight the leverage of a hitch out behind a truck. My hitch ball is just about a foot behind my truck. Combined with the tongue and 33.5' trailer, thats a lot of leverage force being applied to the back of the truck.

the 3500srw vs the 2500 is more stable mainly due to the fact the springs are out wider on the 3500 where the 2500 they are about 4” in perside so 8” narrower you do loose that stability but then a set of air bags on a 2500 gets that stability back

 

[sstoner911]

I got to thinking about this last night - and I forgot the tire issue I had. I had Toyo MTs on my 2500, put them on about a month after I had the truck in 2017. So long story short I had about 4 months on them when the fronts developed a weird wear pattern. Toyo could not explain it so they replaced them. 4 Wheel parts put the ones form the rear to the front and put the brand new ones in the rear. Later that week we left for San Diego with the travel trailer... immediately on the freeway the sway from the trailer was making the truck feel like it was on skates and there was no wind. If I got above 55 mph the damn truck felt like it wanted to wander all over - even people in the lanes next to me were looking like I was about to kill them...

I pulled over and checked the hitch, sway bar, rear end of the truck - all looked good. the only thing to change was the tires in the rear so when I got to the next town and had the them rotated. The death sway went away,

I asked Toyo about this and their answer was that the tread on the MTs flexes and that flex is worse during the first 10% of the tread because its a softer rubber. After that set of Toyos I went to Cooper AT3 XLTs.

The Coopers made the truck feel 100% better. So I guess it really wasnt the weight or suspension - it was tires. My bad.

 

[RV_Goose]

I kind of did the same thing...traded the 2500 for 3500 for more payload...I don't want to be limited in choices down the road both on payload but also towing capacity.

My current toyhauler loaded for a long weekend and two motorcycles put me at 90% rated capacity of my 2013 RAM 2500 Tradesman diesel. I know we will be buying another toyhauler soon and we didn't want to be limited. We wait and usually find a deal somehow. An my current 2039 RAM 3500 Tradesman HO Aisin dually will pull any trailer we are interested in. My 2500 never felt like it was working hard with WV or TN mountains and 12k.

And I've already move a couple of trailers for folks.

 

[sstoner911]

I probably wouldn't have traded for a brand new 3500 but I got my 2019 with 4k miles and out the door for 42K.

 

[RV_Goose]

I kinda think you can ignore the weight difference. Do you think 300lbs means anything to a truck weighing 8000lbs+ and even in 2500 form is rated to tow 16,000lbs+ behind it? 300lbs is like a human carrying around a loaf of bread.

Not trying to be a jerk, just some internet debating!

I see this thought process every day on RV forums, Facebook rv groups and sometimes this site. "I have a 2500, I bought a 5th wheel with a pin weight of 2300lbs + me and wife in the truck. My payload is 1950lbs..."

The tow police come along and all start chanting "get a 3500! You're way overloaded!" And "you're going to hurt someone and be sued/go to jail" This sounds like ridiculous exaggerating but I literally read several threads/posts today that had these exact scenarios and comments

So guy needs to lose thousands on selling a 2500 to get a 3500 when he's only a few hundred pounds over on payload, in a truck with a GCWR north of 24,000lbs? That's insane to me...

Probably more payload difference between trim levels than CC or mega cab. I know when I bought my 2020 3500 Tradesman dually there was 800 difference between the Tradesman I bought and the Limited on the lot.

 

[TXGeorge]

Probably more payload difference between trim levels than CC or mega cab. I know when I bought my 2020 3500 Tradesman dually there was 800 difference between the Tradesman I bought and the Limited on the lot.

Yes, cab/ trim and engine cause a big difference.

A regular cab with gas, 2500 payload reach 4000lbs!


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[Bandit400]

If you are towing or hauling, go bigger than you need today. I made a rush buying decision on leftover 2019 2500 Tradesman 6.7 because the price was right and then changed my mind on what 5th wheel/trucker camper I wanted. Sure enough the available payload was way below what I needed for the new trailer setup. Six month later I learned an expensive lesson and traded in the 2500 for a 3500 CCLB DRW 6.7HO. So happy I did but only wish I made the right decision first.

 

[hognuts1960]

Me too..lol

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