Looking for Input from PW Owners

[Bobbybob]

Hey everyone!

Currently a 2020 Ram 1500 owner (5.7 w/eCrap) and looking to make a move. I had a 2003 2500 with the 5.7 for a long time and sold it when I moved to the 5th gen. My eCrap has failed now for the second time and my truck is just sitting in my drive until they can get the part in (60K miles)...two weeks now and it's backordered with no ETA. Done with it!

Bought new and looked for this truck specifically as a CO truck and did some things to it (Laramie, 4x4 off-road package, minor lift with larger/better tires, 6'4" bed, larger fuel tank, 3.92 rear end, added fiberglass topper to camp w/roof rack, etc). Added a pic below of a recent MB trip in the Mts. I tow a 24' camper from time to time as well (Imagine 2400BH - dry weight of about 5,800 lbs) in the Mts of CO. Did not want the eCrap when I bought it but it was hard to find without it. Waiting on the dealer to fix it so I can just dump it.

With that being said, trying to decide if I move to 2500 with diesel or stick with gasser and go PW to really beef up my CO camping game. I do go off road and trail my current truck but nothing too crazy. Thinking diesel would be too heavy but just looking for input from current PW owners!

Any time and help appreciated in this thread.

 

[DrTron]

Purely my opinion: if you don't tow/haul heavy loads on a regular basis, don't buy a Diesel. The gas engine can still tow very well, and modern Diesels can have issues, too.
But even the PW rides differently/rougher than a 1500, just the nature of the beast. Plus, expect mpg to drop about 25%. My 1500 Hemi got 18-19, I now get 13-14.

Regarding getting rid of the eTorque on your 1500: I'm not sure that's actually possible since AFAIK the eTorque motor also serves as the starter for the engine, but I may be wrong here.

 

[MtnRider]

You really don't tow that heavy for a diesel but it would be Very benificial to have that forced induction and exhaust brake in Colorado. On the other hand you really don't justify the offroad use of the PW and you do tow some so the limited payload of the PW is going to be a disadvatage. I owned a PW in Colorado and it was an awesome off road truck but pretty much sucked at everything else (limited payload, down on power at alititude, very limited range do to poor mpg and small gas tank). I went back to a diesel and never looked back.

If you do go a gas 2500, I'd look at a non-PW


.

 

[Fantastipotamus]

I came from a 2019 Ram 1500 w/ eTq (no complaints) and bought a PW. As others have mentioned, I'm not sure your use case can "justify" the purchase, but that doesn't actually matter. I don't really do off road, nor do I tow, I just knew the PW had the looks I was after.

A small list of my subjective pros and cons:

Pros:
Looks great
Was better equipped than my 1500 (LED package, surround camera, top tier entertainment, cooled leather seats, etc)
No eTq (since that's a sore spot for you)
Bigger bed (came from 5'7")
Narrower than my 1500 (but much taller)

Meh's
I had the smaller tank in my 1500 (the one that needed full replacement when the breather tube crapped out), and I have the larger one in my 2500 - so the range is actually slightly better for me. So that's a +1/-1 kinda thing.

Cons:
Slightly less interior room than the 5th gen 1500, mostly in the rear seating.
Driveline tunnel means no flat floor (mine has a folding 'false floor' but there's still less room)
As mentioned, pretty solid mpg hit (18-19 down to 13-14 - managed 15 on a multi-hour highway trip, but that's the high water mark so far)
Stock tires (Wranger Duratracs) get noisy fairly quickly
Rougher ride since it's a 2500, dropping the tire pressure is an immediate fix, but the TPMS is also set high so it will warn you until you reprogram it (will run a few hundred $$ for the security bypass/software, etc)

I guess my point is don't worry about trying to justify it, per se, just know what you're getting into.

 

[DrTron]

I came from a 2019 Ram 1500 w/ eTq (no complaints) and bought a PW.

That's funny, I did the exact same thing.
Although maybe my take was a little bit different: my 1500 had the 6'4" bed, which I wanted to keep, but I also wanted the Ramboxes (which are great). And they didn't offer this combination for the Gen5 1500s, but they did for the 2500s. And since I didn't need the towing or payload capacity, I opted for the (softer-sprung) PW. It actually is as wide as the 1500, but obviously taller and a lot more truck.
I had the large tank on my 1500, so in combination with the lower mpg I went from a range of 600mi to 400, but I can live with that.

Reprogramming the tire pressure is actually really easy, all you need is a $30 bypass cable, a good BT ODB dongle and a $50 Android app. Plus that can do a lot more than just that, such as adjusting the tire size, getting the current gear icon in the dash, etc.

 

[Fantastipotamus]

And since I didn't need the towing or payload capacity, I opted for the (softer-sprung) PW. It actually is as wide as the 1500, but obviously taller and a lot more truck.
...
Reprogramming the tire pressure is actually really easy, all you need is a $30 bypass cable, a good BT ODB dongle and a $50 Android app. Plus that can do a lot more than just that, such as adjusting the tire size, getting the current gear icon in the dash, etc.

According to Edmunds, the 2019 1500 is 82.1" (link) and the 2024 2500 is 79.4" (link) (both without mirrors).. I'd definitely seen some conflicting info, but tend to trust Edmunds? Who knows. It depends on the models too, maybe the PW is wider due to the flares.

And yea, my 'a few hundred' is probably high - I think I was ~$130 all in? I went w/ the Kaodtech bypass, PC software and preferred to use a USB cable vs BT.

 

[DrTron]

According to Edmunds, the 2019 1500 is 82.1" (link) and the 2024 2500 is 79.4" (link) (both without mirrors).. I'd definitely seen some conflicting info, but tend to trust Edmunds? Who knows. It depends on the models too, maybe the PW is wider due to the flares.

Probably a wash. At least to me driving into the garage it feels about the same. An inch here or there doesn't matter.

And yea, my 'a few hundred' is probably high - I think I was ~$130 all in? I went w/ the Kaodtech bypass, PC software and preferred to use a USB cable vs BT.

I don't own a Windoze laptop, but yes, that works as well.

 

[Bobbybob]

Purely my opinion: if you don't tow/haul heavy loads on a regular basis, don't buy a Diesel. The gas engine can still tow very well, and modern Diesels can have issues, too.
But even the PW rides differently/rougher than a 1500, just the nature of the beast. Plus, expect mpg to drop about 25%. My 1500 Hemi got 18-19, I now get 13-14.

Regarding getting rid of the eTorque on your 1500: I'm not sure that's actually possible since AFAIK the eTorque motor also serves as the starter for the engine, but I may be wrong here.

Thanks! I actually meant I am just done with the truck. LOL. You are correct, there is nothing that you can do, as far as a delete goes (looked into it). My truck, with its current setup gets maybe 13, added bigger tires and I have that 3.92 rear end). Highway sees better mileage at maybe 17 if I am lucky.

Appreciate the input. Based on all I looked at last night, think the diesel is out. Too many long term issues with idle/slow trail use from what I can tell. Think it's 6.4 for me, just Rebel or PW. Found this guy and it's close to me so going to take a look: https://www.prestigechryslerdodge.c...r+Wagon+Crew+Cab+4x4+64+Box-3C6TR5EJ2NG392183

 

[Bobbybob]

You really don't tow that heavy for a diesel but it would be Very benificial to have that forced induction and exhaust brake in Colorado. On the other hand you really don't justify the offroad use of the PW and you do tow some so the limited payload of the PW is going to be a disadvatage. I owned a PW in Colorado and it was an awesome off road truck but pretty much sucked at everything else (limited payload, down on power at alititude, very limited range do to poor mpg and small gas tank). I went back to a diesel and never looked back.

If you do go a gas 2500, I'd look at a non-PW


.

Thanks! I do off road it and there are some trails that I have been on that I decided to turn around on mainly due to the limit of the truck. I am comp and want to play "beat that hill" now. LMAO.

 

[DrTron]

Found this guy and it's close to me so going to take a look:

Check the VIN beforehand to see if it has all the options you want.
TBH, the 360 camera view is a gamechanger when parking...I'd make sure to get one that has it.

 

[Bobbybob]

Check the VIN beforehand to see if it has all the options you want.
TBH, the 360 camera view is a gamechanger when parking...I'd make sure to get one that has it.

A buddy of mine is a fleet mgr for Ram and he pulled the window sticker for me. Do not see the trail cam on there.

 

[DrTron]

A buddy of mine is a fleet mgr for Ram and he pulled the window sticker for me. Do not see the trail cam on there.

Your call what you want, really. Some people don't care about it, some love it.
But if I were to list the main improvements comfort-wise between my '19 1500 and the PW, it would be that, the adaptive cruise control and wireless Android Auto.
AFAIK the 2500s got a digital dash with the 23 model year, which I think is about the only main difference to the 22.

 

[akguy09]

Depending on how much you tow, the diesel will tow much better in the mountains for sure. Anyone that doesnt live at altitude doesnt understand how much the elevation kills a gas engine when towing. Be realistic with your needs before you buy. I have a Power Wagon and a Cummins Diesel, even though my Cummins is a 2007 at the elevation I live at, it will out tow my 21 Powerwagon easily

 

[DrTron]

Anyone that doesnt live at altitude doesnt understand how much the elevation kills a gas engine when towing.

That's not entirely correct. The difference is in the Cummings being a turbo engine and the Hemi being naturally aspirated. That has nothing to do with the type (Gas/Diesel), a non-turbo Diesel will suffer the same.
Both engines measure intake air mass (not volume) and adjust fuel injection accordingly, but the turbo engine has the advantage of closing the wastegate when the air gets thin, allowing more oxygen into the cylinders. The naturally aspirated engine doesn't have that option.
But since those are the only engines available for a 2500, it certainly may be a factor at altitude. The hurricane engine would do just fine.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I'll let you know next week my real world experience.
I live at 5200 ft. Will be towing a 35 ft, 8K trailer thru some mountains this weekend. Going out camping in the mountains.

 

[akguy09]

That's not entirely correct. The difference is in the Cummings being a turbo engine and the Hemi being naturally aspirated. That has nothing to do with the type (Gas/Diesel), a non-turbo Diesel will suffer the same.
Both engines measure intake air mass (not volume) and adjust fuel injection accordingly, but the turbo engine has the advantage of closing the wastegate when the air gets thin, allowing more oxygen into the cylinders. The naturally aspirated engine doesn't have that option.
But since those are the only engines available for a 2500, it certainly may be a factor at altitude. The hurricane engine would do just fine.

True, but since he was talking about a Powerwagon I just referenced gas engine in reference to the Powerwagon. And the Cummins has almost 3 times the torque

 

[akguy09]

I'll let you know next week my real world experience.
I live at 5200 ft. Will be towing a 35 ft, 8K trailer thru some mountains this weekend. Going out camping in the mountains.

I live at 6700 ft so I have to do it every day, and I towed the infamous "IKE" with my Powerwagon and a 5000 lb horse trailer it was fine, but if it was more routine, than a diesel would be a better option especially with the exhaust brake

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I pulled a 5K trailer up a 15% grade in Baja at 70 MPH with no issues. Not sure of the elevation.

 

[SolidAxleorBust]

Really what you are talking about is going from a light duty to a very extreme duty truck. While ridiculously de-rated, the Power Wagon will tow what you want, and WHERE you want. The PW is gas, and I would love more power at High Altitude no doubt, but is it worth the Diesel engine cost, fuel cost and emissions issues these days? Add to that the weight issue. The PW is a 1% vehicle with out a doubt. What makes it special;

1. Factory Winch -- A 4x4 should have a winch no matter what. I had to rebuild mine after maybe 1,000hrs of use.
2. Front Locker -- A modern 4x4 should come with a front locker. Towing off road? You will need it at some point.
3. Solid front axle and bullet proof drivetrain-- With the vat of lead transmission in the rear view mirror and ZF in its place you have essentially an OVER ENGINEERED drivetrain in a world of snow flake drivetrains that need software to limit power so they don't break. My use case has seen 15K loads off road with all 4 tires spinning MANY times. Very few factory trucks will take this level of abuse.
4. Size -- yes, its big. But, you will find it has the perfect balance of wheel base and bed size. The Rebel has a useless bed, the PW perfect. Other models add a VW bug to the wheelbase, the PW wheelbase is perfect.
5. Off Road Capability -- For a full size truck, its second to none. The weight does hold it back however.
6. Heavy Duty Truck -- The ratings for tow and payload make little sense. What does, is you get everything a truck designed to tow 17K gets. Your little baby camper will tow like a dream. No over heating, no brake issues, ect.

While the PW desperately needs updated, and is lagging in some areas now. The question is what beats it as a swiss army knife of off roading, towing, work, back country living...ect? I will be ordering another one soon. Our other brand currently is Ineos, so we we don't mess around. That being said, most people don't need D60 - D80 axles, gear drive transfer cases or John Deer King pin axles....But my mechanic will vouch for me that I do.

 

[Bobbybob]

Really what you are talking about is going from a light duty to a very extreme duty truck. While ridiculously de-rated, the Power Wagon will tow what you want, and WHERE you want. The PW is gas, and I would love more power at High Altitude no doubt, but is it worth the Diesel engine cost, fuel cost and emissions issues these days? Add to that the weight issue. The PW is a 1% vehicle with out a doubt. What makes it special;

1. Factory Winch -- A 4x4 should have a winch no matter what. I had to rebuild mine after maybe 1,000hrs of use.
2. Front Locker -- A modern 4x4 should come with a front locker. Towing off road? You will need it at some point.
3. Solid front axle and bullet proof drivetrain-- With the vat of lead transmission in the rear view mirror and ZF in its place you have essentially an OVER ENGINEERED drivetrain in a world of snow flake drivetrains that need software to limit power so they don't break. My use case has seen 15K loads off road with all 4 tires spinning MANY times. Very few factory trucks will take this level of abuse.
4. Size -- yes, its big. But, you will find it has the perfect balance of wheel base and bed size. The Rebel has a useless bed, the PW perfect. Other models add a VW bug to the wheelbase, the PW wheelbase is perfect.
5. Off Road Capability -- For a full size truck, its second to none. The weight does hold it back however.
6. Heavy Duty Truck -- The ratings for tow and payload make little sense. What does, is you get everything a truck designed to tow 17K gets. Your little baby camper will tow like a dream. No over heating, no brake issues, ect.

While the PW desperately needs updated, and is lagging in some areas now. The question is what beats it as a swiss army knife of off roading, towing, work, back country living...ect? I will be ordering another one soon. Our other brand currently is Ineos, so we we don't mess around. That being said, most people don't need D60 - D80 axles, gear drive transfer cases or John Deer King pin axles....But my mechanic will vouch for me that I do.

Thanks! Took it for a test drive this afternoon and it's a noticeable difference for sure, in many ways. Threw my son in the backseat as he does not remember my 3rd gen 2500. lol. Told him to tell me what he thought of the ride, especially compared to my current 5th gen 1500. lol. It was impressive for sure. Had a little shimmy in the front end and could not tell if that was tire related or trail related (being knocked out of alignment). Previous owner put on Kuhmo RoadVenture AT2s so not too familiar with those. Told her have someone look at that and come to the table with the best offer...she came at me with $56,689. Looks to be pretty good price overall.