Hemi vs Cummins

[tchur1]

Due to a series of unfortunate events for a buddy. I had to stop by and pickup his brand new top of the line tige from the boat ramp. On the trailer ready to go. I made the comment it pulled like ****. Wich lead to the inevitable power stroke vs Cummins flame war.

It was then discovered that the ballast tanks and fat sack had not been drained. I don't know how many hundreds of gallons I drug down the highway for no reason.

I think your buddy was trying to do you dirty. If I towed my boat with out tanks full it’s another 4600 pounds. I bet it felt heavy with the extra weight. We are about 10k without the tanks filled while on the trailer.

 

[fuchsroehre]

Diesel!
For me it was about character not anything $ related.
I like the Cummins Brand name- has a reputation for good engines.

Further on what I liked.
- The Diesel process, sound and low engine speeds
- The Turbo sound and high torque at low engine speed characteristics, I like Turbo engines in general
- Sound of the combustion, the Diesel ticking sounds like a Boss
- Inline 6 sounds mean and strong under boost, most Semis have I6s
- Engine exhaust brake capability


I did not need the Diesel, I wanted it

Other options I looked at:
Ford F150 Diesel 3liter V6-> Timing belt, is a "no go" for me.
Ram 1500 Eco Diesel 3liter V6, ->bad reviews about the ZF BMW 760i trans. The whole drive train seemed light duty, rather build for a car than a truck
GMC Silverado Diesel 3-liter I6, -> Oil pump driven by a belt, needs service and the trans needs to come out for that. Out of principle would I never buy such a bad design.
New Tundra V6 Turbo gas. -> Was not out at the time early 2021.

All of the above are about 60k$ and I got the proper medium duty Diesel drive train for a few k$ more.

 

[406Linetrash]

Diesel!
For me it was about character not anything $ related.
I like the Cummins Brand name- has a reputation for good engines.

Further on what I liked.
- The Diesel process, sound and low engine speeds
- The Turbo sound and high torque at low engine speed characteristics, I like Turbo engines in general
- Sound of the combustion, the Diesel ticking sounds like a Boss
- Inline 6 sounds mean and strong under boost, most Semis have I6s
- Engine exhaust brake capability


I did not need the Diesel, I wanted it

Other options I looked at:
Ford F150 Diesel 3liter V6-> Timing belt, is a "no go" for me.
Ram 1500 Eco Diesel 3liter V6, ->bad reviews about the ZF BMW 760i trans. The whole drive train seemed light duty, rather build for a car than a truck
GMC Silverado Diesel 3-liter I6, -> Oil pump driven by a belt, needs service and the trans needs to come out for that. Out of principle would I never buy such a bad design.
New Tundra V6 Turbo gas. -> Was not out at the time early 2021.

All of the above are about 60k$ and I got the proper medium duty Diesel drive train for a few k$ more.

4 of 5 of those are sound. So your contribution is pick a diesel because of the way it sounds?

 

[fuchsroehre]

4 of 5 of those are sound. So your contribution is pick a diesel because of the way it sounds?

No that is just why I picked it. Other people can do what they like. I did not and would never state "pick a Diesel because of this or that". You must be a lawyer .
And it is not 4 out of 5, maybe its 30% but sound for me is a big part of the engine's character.

Maybe that way it is easier to digest:
- The Diesel process, (technical reason)
- low engine speeds
- The Turbo sound (1)
- and high torque at low engine speed characteristics,
- I like Turbo engines in general (the idea of using exhaust energy for getting air into the engine and elevation cancellation)
- Sound of the combustion, the Diesel ticking sounds like a Boss (2)
- Inline 6 sounds mean and strong under boost, (3)
- most Semis have I6s (likely due to thermal efficiency and tuning- makes good MPG)
- Engine exhaust brake capability

My statements are not meant to make Hemi owners feel bad, I respect anybody's decision and the Gas engines are also good engines, for sure. Maybe even the better choice if you consider all the negatives coming with the Diesel, like exhaust treatment, DEF usage, maintenance cost, etc........but I would buy a Cummins again even though I tow 5-8k lbs only.

 

[JALOPYJUNK]

Cummins for towing heavy for high mileage. Hemi for payload and short tows with lighter weights. 6.4 hemis are eating cams still fyi.

Chrysler put an engine in my 2021 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi at 4423 miles due to cam and lifters. It had a rough idle and poor gas mileage. The new engine has approx 1400 miles on it and I am afraid we are repeating the same problem. Very rough idle and poor fuel mileage. In town I am getting around 6 mpg. I looked the other day and had driven 96 miles and the fuel gauge was reading 1/2 a tank. I had reset everything when I filled up. This truck was getting 11 mpg in town when new.

 

[jetrinka]

Chrysler put an engine in my 2021 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi at 4423 miles due to cam and lifters. It had a rough idle and poor gas mileage. The new engine has approx 1400 miles on it and I am afraid we are repeating the same problem. Very rough idle and poor fuel mileage. In town I am getting around 6 mpg. I looked the other day and had driven 96 miles and the fuel gauge was reading 1/2 a tank. I had reset everything when I filled up. This truck was getting 11 mpg in town when new.

Wow that’s crazy. Was the entire engine and all the associated parts that bolt to it (MDS solenoids, oil pump, etc) replaced too? I’d be seeing exactly what was replaced.

 

[JALOPYJUNK]

Not 100% sure about the MDS solenoids. I know it was a long block. I was told it was an engine off of the assembly line. Looking at the repair order it states 68411230aa long block and 68312489ab gasket kit. The reason for the engine replacement was a roller seized on a lifter and sent metal shavings through the oil. I am hoping a new oil pump came with the long block. It has a very rough idle at times but not showing a missfire code or triggering a check engine light. I am not sure if the MDS solenoids are in oil but if they are that could be a problem. They had metal in them. If so the new engine has metal in it. I will check with them tomorrow when I go up there to check on my other truck that's in the shop. It's a 2016 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi with the typical broken exhaust leak. Its either a busted manifold or sheared bolts. This is my second 2021 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi in less than a year. The first one I bought on February 27, 2021. This truck lasted 6 days and less than 500 miles when it was totaled out. That truck saved my life. Never have right at a head on with a 18 wheeler at 70 miles per hour that came in my lane. After skidding on it's side foe awhile it rolled 3 times. The replacement truck is identical truck to the wrecked one. This is not near the truck that the first one was.

 

[AJ608]

If your truck makes it to the next oil change, get an oil sample and test it. At least you would know what's getting ready to happen.
You would be amazed at what will show up in an analysis long before anything happens.

Oil Analysis | Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English! Since 1985.

www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[Rockcrawlindude]

If your truck makes it to the next oil change, get an oil sample and test it. At least you would know what's getting ready to happen.
You would be amazed at what will show up in an analysis long before anything happens.

Oil Analysis | Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English! Since 1985.

www.blackstone-labs.com

This is a great suggestion with that trucks history @JALOPYJUNK

 

[AJ608]

This is a great suggestion with that trucks history @JALOPYJUNK

The good thing is if you do it every time it will show a pattern.. Say you notice elevated levels of silicon, you would look at the intake piping/air filter seal/air filter box to find how it got there.

 

[JALOPYJUNK]

Thank all of you for the suggestions. I will get an oil sample on the next change.

 

[jetrinka]

It’s just unusual for a Hemi to have that problem so soon. And to have the replacement act the same way it leads me to believe something that was on the old engine was reused when it shouldn’t have been

 

[JALOPYJUNK]

It’s just unusual for a Hemi to have that problem so soon. And to have the replacement act the same way it leads me to believe something that was on the old engine was reused when it shouldn’t have been

I agree. I am so tired of the rough idle, poor fuel mileage and lack of power I could scream. I am about ready to trade it in and go back to a diesel. It's just hard to justify the extra cost for the diesel for what I use a truck for. I don't carry any heavy loads and only tow 4000 to 7000 pounds occasionally. Thats why I went with a gas engine this time. Back in 2016 I traded in my 2004 Ram 2500 5.9 diesel with the 6 speed standard. It only had 205,000 miles on it. I still kick myself for getting rid of it.

 

[MEGA HO]

Now the Colorado comment, I don't care if its diesel or gas, if you are above 5,000 ft, you will NOT get the best gas mileage. For all you folks out there, the EPA mileage tests done on smaller cars are at SEA level and around 65 degrees ambient temperature. As the altitude and temperature varies... so does your MPG... Nobody is wrong or right... that is just a fact.... ENJOY! and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Maybe in the old days but since they started slapping turbos on them diesels, it won't matter what your altitude is. Turbos pump more air than engine needs, the excess is being bled off. Now the air temperature will make a difference irrespective to intercoolers being used.
All things equal, the fuel type is the probable culprit to mpg differences between different states. Pure petroleum fuel has more BTU comparing to that crap they call biofuel. Commie-fornia, being the tree huggin state it is, probably diluting diesel with the crap biodiesel to save that penguin at the south pole.

 

[fuchsroehre]

Maybe in the old days but since they started slapping turbos on them diesels, it won't matter what your altitude is. Turbos pump more air than engine needs, the excess is being bled off. Now the air temperature will make a difference irrespective to intercoolers being used.
All things equal, the fuel type is the probable culprit to mpg differences between different states. Pure petroleum fuel has more BTU comparing to that crap they call biofuel. Commie-fornia, being the tree huggin state it is, probably diluting diesel with the crap biodiesel to save that penguin at the south pole.

Here is my perspective (not challenging yours):
- High elevation means low air density, better for fuel mileage since the drag is lower, especially while towing a trailer. Needs to be flat of course and you need to subtract the poor mpg while going up to that elevation. Commercial aircraft fly 30-40k ft due to finding the correct wind velocity (preferably tailwind) but also for the good mpg at that low air density. That is the reason why in space w/o air no fuel is needed to continue with the same velocity (i.e. Satellites).
- Non Turbo engines might only give you 300HP at 5000ft (example not sure what the exact HP is) instead of the rated 400HP at sea level. Due to the lower HP going up the hill, the mpg is slightly better. Usually lower HP means better MPG considering a Turbo would use the 400HP available going up the same hill. That is all for a gas engine at full throttle climbing the hill. Diesels are of course better MPG for many reasons like compression ratio, leaner air fuel mixture compared to gas engines, heat value of the fuel, low friction due to low engine speeds, etc.....
- Agreed with the fuel comment, I think winterized Diesel sometimes has lower heat values.
- High elevation usually means lower ambient temps, that can have an influence on the viscosity of your wheel bearing grease (higher friction), lower tire pressure (higher friction), lower engine- trans- rear drive oil temps (all higher friction). Its all very little amounts but it adds up. Further on a longer warm up of all these oils/ greases after you start driving in the morning.

Apologize for the "nerding out" here- its just an interesting topic to me.

 

[Greenhills]

Drive whatever you want. I've daily driven diesels for years and never towed more than 5k. Why did I do it? Because I liked the diesel and I felt like it.

If you need to examine such a small cost of ownership over a long period.. buy a prius and rent a truck from Home Depot when you need to do man things.

 

[kriendeau67]

The decision was easy for me once I realized the fuel cost dilemma.

My 2019 5.7 hemi ram that got replaced with the Cummins used 89 octane anyway. - which is recommended right in the manual.

Diesel fuel near me is the same cost , actually .05 cents cheaper. So I was already used to the fuel cost.

I’ve had older diesel rams and I used to love setting cruise control to 70 and going up huge hills with no downshifting. The 5.7 was constantly shifting. I know that sounds trivial but I could t get it out of my head.

There’s definitely more things to pay attention to with the diesel but I think it’s worth it. Knowing you’ve got an endless supply of torque at any speed with anything you’re towing , just a nice feeling.

Also whoever said that the hemi gets better mileage is a total tool. I get 20 on the Highway average going 70.
Got 17 on my hemi going 70.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RVTRKN]

To be fair the maintenance cost is more on a CTD, I just paid $200.00 (Dealer cost.) for fuel filters, and thats doing it myself.
But the gasser issue, for me, is the High RPM needed to maintain the HP and TQ needed when heavy, climbing any grade. Also the longevity of the CTD is also a big plus, although the average time Ive kept my CTD's is around 5 years. My 2019 will be my last truck due to my age. 10 more years and I'll won't be able to physically handle the 5th wheel and 15 more years the Boat will also be too much to handle.

 

[Grumpyoldbast!?¥]

I’m gone thru four 6.4 hemi’s between 3 trucks. Cam and lifter replaced 2x, lost oil pressure wiping out the bearings and last but not least possibly a cracked piston in a new long block. Still waiting on the diagnosis. Ram could be giving 6.4‘s away and would run like my hair is on fire. I’m anxiously awaiting a new 2500 w the Cummins ordered 2 months ago.

 

[js4024]

Looking into a 2022.
would you rather go Hemi or Cummins?

While is is a $9k plus upgrade, the longevity is no comparison. The 6.4 has MDS which is known to work the 4 “on all the time” cylinders harder than the ones that free ride. This causes more ware on the upper end, cams roller bearings ect. Very expensive repair at 130k miles. Big picture…. The Cummins will outlive the body and frame. Pay more now, save a lot down the road. It is way more efficient as well. I roll with my 3500 HO at about 13 mpg in town and 20-22 highway, empty. Loaded knock it down to 8 mpg and 14ish.