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Help with Towing Calc

J

JHC1

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Hello all. I have been spending considerable time figuring towing capacity of my 24 RAM 3500 SRW turbo diesel. Unfortunately I have found many comments/threads on using the online VIN decoder from Ram but I have yet to find where to enter the vin on the web page. Oh well, I have a max payload capacity of 4,251 lbs to start with and a GVWR of 12,300 lbs. As with my bumper pull (and F150), I used payload number and started subtracting from there and was able to tow our imagine 22MLE very well. We have since upgraded the tow vehicle to the Ram. We would like to purchase a 5th wheel toy hauler. I pulled down a chart from Ram and it shows the max trailer weight is 20,010 lbs. Is that the trailer GVWR?

I am trying to get a good idea of the size/weight of a trailer I can safely tow so I have a starting point on my search for a new toy hauler.

Any help would be appreciated.
John....
 
JHC1 said:
Hello all. I have been spending considerable time figuring towing capacity of my 24 RAM 3500 SRW turbo diesel. Unfortunately I have found many comments/threads on using the online VIN decoder from Ram but I have yet to find where to enter the vin on the web page. Oh well, I have a max payload capacity of 4,251 lbs to start with and a GVWR of 12,300 lbs. As with my bumper pull (and F150), I used payload number and started subtracting from there and was able to tow our imagine 22MLE very well. We have since upgraded the tow vehicle to the Ram. We would like to purchase a 5th wheel toy hauler. I pulled down a chart from Ram and it shows the max trailer weight is 20,010 lbs. Is that the trailer GVWR?

I am trying to get a good idea of the size/weight of a trailer I can safely tow so I have a starting point on my search for a new toy hauler.

Any help would be appreciated.
John....
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payload number is not a weight limit go by the axle weight numbers which would be 7k max rear axle weight. Really unless you load your truck up really heavy you will be good with a trailer of around 3200-3300 pin weight dry…


The max towing number is not a law or guideline as your pin weight will far exceed the trucks capacity before you hit the max towing number on a Camper

That F150 could have hauled much more than your old 22mle weighed
 
Well, it made for a comfortable tow that is for sure. Understand on the payload. I am looking at a couple of 5th wheels: Alliance Valor 36V11 (2995 pin weight) or a GD 320G (2300 pin weight) but I want to make sure my Ram can handle one of these or ????
 
JHC1 said:
Well, it made for a comfortable tow that is for sure. Understand on the payload. I am looking at a couple of 5th wheels: Alliance Valor 36V11 (2995 pin weight) or a GD 320G (2300 pin weight) but I want to make sure my Ram can handle one of these or ????
Click to expand...
Both will be easy
 
Just be aware that pin weights aren’t an exact number. I’m not for sure about what GD or Alliance lists for their pin weights but some companies list the dry weight, not loaded weight.
 
Silverbeard said:
Just be aware that pin weights aren’t an exact number. I’m not for sure about what GD or Alliance lists for their pin weights but some companies list the dry weight, not loaded weight.
Click to expand...
Well yea they would only know the dry weight since they have no clue what you are loading or how you are loading it.
 
So I calculated the max trailer I can pull is 16,000 lbs. GCWR (28,300) - GVWR (12,300) = 16,000. However, on a RAM chart I found, "Max Trailer" is at 20,010 lbs. Not that I want to pull something that heavy. The GVWR of the Alliance Valor I am looking at is 16,950 and the 320G is at 16,800. Those numbers I assume include filling all of the tanks up too.
 
Also worth noting that toy haulers have much higher pin weights when there is nothing in the garage. Adding weight in the garage removes pin weight.

And as mentioned previously you'll need to watch your rear axle weight.

Max Trailer would be something like a gooseneck where more weight is over the trailer axles than on the pin. I would honestly ignore "max trailer weight" ratings since with 5th wheels you are going to hit payload or axle rating before anything else.
 
Thanks Ricochet. My GAWR of rear axel is 7,000 lbs and my payload is 4,251 lbs. So I should have some bandwidth with a pin weight of 3,000 lbs......
 
JHC1 said:
So I calculated the max trailer I can pull is 16,000 lbs. GCWR (28,300) - GVWR (12,300) = 16,000. However, on a RAM chart I found, "Max Trailer" is at 20,010 lbs. Not that I want to pull something that heavy. The GVWR of the Alliance Valor I am looking at is 16,950 and the 320G is at 16,800. Those numbers I assume include filling all of the tanks up too.
Click to expand...
You don’t subtract your GVWR from the GCWR to get what you can tow, you subtract the actual truck weight from the GCWR.

You can pull a lot more than 16k pounds.
 
Riccochet said:
Also worth noting that toy haulers have much higher pin weights when there is nothing in the garage. Adding weight in the garage removes pin weight.

And as mentioned previously you'll need to watch your rear axle weight.

Max Trailer would be something like a gooseneck where more weight is over the trailer axles than on the pin. I would honestly ignore "max trailer weight" ratings since with 5th wheels you are going to hit payload or axle rating before anything else.
Click to expand...

Yup.

So does hanging a second trailer off the back of the 5th wheel.


And there's a simple calculation for what that is if you start with one or the other (load/no load).

* TBH, I'm no math whiz, I got this from someone a long time ago.

1720995163532.png

Pin weight reduction = load*X1/X2.

If there was 1000 lbs in the garage and the center of mass was 10 ft (X1) from the center of the tires, there would be a moment of 1000 lbs * 10 ft = 10,000 ft-lbs at the center of the tires.

If X2 was 20 ft, the pin reduction would be 10,000 ft-lbs/20 ft = 500 lbs
 
jsalbre said:
You don’t subtract your GVWR from the GCWR to get what you can tow, you subtract the actual truck weight from the GCWR.

You can pull a lot more than 16k pounds.
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Truck weighed in at 8,860 lbs (2 occupants, full tank, 2/3rd DEF, bed mat, bed cover, and tool box). So based on this, I can tow up to 19,440 lbs. Not bad considering the 5th wheel we are looking at has a GVWR of 16,950. Now to figure out a 5th wheel hitch...
 
JHC1 said:
Truck weighed in at 8,860 lbs (2 occupants, full tank, 2/3rd DEF, bed mat, bed cover, and tool box). So based on this, I can tow up to 19,440 lbs. Not bad considering the 5th wheel we are looking at has a GVWR of 16,950. Now to figure out a 5th wheel hitch...
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Air ride if you can swing it, it the best towing experience you can get
 
I have found that one of the problems with fifth wheels is that pretty well everything you load into them adds to the pin weight. While it may be a toy hauler and putting your toy in the garage might pull off some pin weight, all the stuff that mama brings will easily counteract that. I know I am a full timer but all the stuff that mama put into it is close to 5000 pounds. Granted 20 gallons of gas for the generator isn’t light but dang, even the clothes are probably five hundred, then there is the tools, the food, the dog food, the chest freezer and on and on. Amazing how fast it all adds up. LOL. And now you know why I have dually.
 
JHC1 said:
I wasn't thinking of adding air but why not. Any recommendations? Air lift? 5,000 lbs, 7,500 lbs?
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No i mean air ride hitch! My hitch has 4 airbags and 2 shocks you wont need air bags on the truck with your setup.

Check out air safe hitches (new version of what i have had for 20 years they are not cheap but worth the money.
 

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H3LZSN1P3R said:
No i mean air ride hitch! My hitch has 4 airbags and 2 shocks you wont need air bags on the truck with your setup.

Check out air safe hitches (new version of what i have had for 20 years they are not cheap but worth the money.
Click to expand...
Does that connect to the pucks?
 
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