Help Ease My Mind (Gas vs Diesel)

[Davidbt]

People are buy HD trucks and pay attention to MPG? I didnt even pay attention on my 1500 i just filled up when needed and walked in for gas station snacks and went on my way. Let alone the 2500 i have now i REALLY wont even bother. The again i have a pretty light foot so i guess that might help lol

Right there with you. I try to drive with a light foot. My 5.7 was my first V8 in over 30 years. I have a '05 TJR for fun and trails, between my truck and jeep, fuel mileage does not enter the equation.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

I drive all my vechiles like I stole them.
No fun just putting around when you got HP on tap under your right foot.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I was on the same boat but at the end I ended with gas. I did many calculations and owning the diesel was a money pit compared to gas. I live at high altitude and I pump 86 octane which is almost a dollar cheaper than diesel. Then don’t forget about def fluid. Gas mileage on the diesel is much better but the savings get eaten up by much more expensive oil changes and maintenance. At this point gas is cheaper to operate. Then there is the diesel motor premium of $12.5k which is a lot. I can buy 4,325 gallons of gas @ $2.89 or 54k miles driven in the city at 12.5mpg. Higher if you factor in highway driving. I am retired and I only tow a 4k travel trailer. The 6.4 tows effortlessly even at high altitude. If I had a very large heavy camper or towed very frequently maybe diesel would have been my choice. Right now I am happy with my 6.4. And it sounds good too. I’ve had diesels before for what it’s worth.

This always gets brought up in these discussions and is just not a factor for most if you consider resale (which you should) as you recoup the extra cost, and then some, in the diesel. It's a front load cost that gets recovered on the back end (perhaps sooner for some). For many of us that move diesel to diesel, that "extra" cost is already factored (though it has gone up a lot). The NET cost of my current truck was much less due to the (private) sell price of my outgoing diesel.

I'd also crunch the actual numbers on running costs for YOUR specific use case. Don't just assume that since there's an added cost for fuel filters, that all else is equal or greater on the diesel.

If you do your own service, considering the oil change intervals, the diesel can actually come out better.

Here's a good thread (have to read all of it and past the OP first post). One owner calculated his break even on the Diesel at just under 4 years as compared to the Hemi.

P

Thread 'TCO of Hemi vs Cummins'

Sep 24, 2021

All,
I just ordered a 2500 and chose a Hemi using the simple calculation below. I'm convinced the total cost of ownership for the Hemi is lower but want to hear more input. Note that my assumptions were that resale percentage of purchase price is equal at 50% after 100k miles, MPG differential is 4, price per gallon differential is $.25, and I did not include the higher maintenance cost of the Cummins

• pinkerton81

 

[dieselscout80]

One thing I wonder about in the future is with regards to the resale of the diesel is if emissions enforcement will make deleting no longer feasible. How will that affect the resale value of diesel pickups.

If it’s a +$2k to fix the emissions and it only lasts a year or two and needs it again ouch.

Drive what you want and can afford.

Note I question whether very many people are really factoring in what they can afford.

 

[Riz!]

When I made this decision I figured the average gas mileage of the gasser was 15mpg. The average price of regular gas was around 3.60. The cost difference of a diesel was 10k.

10,000 / 3.6 = 2,777.8 gallons of gas

2,777.8 x 15 = 41,666.66 miles worth of gasoline.

So since the gas towing capacity is plenty for me and I didnt need the towing capability of a cummins (my boat is a very small duck/fishing rig) i was more thinking of the cost difference.

I drive the truck about 10k miles a year (I have a company car for commuting). This means Ide have to drive for 4 or 5 years to even start to recoup the cost of the diesel motor it self. My calculation doesnt even encompass the cost difference of the fuel and maintenance and the cost of DEF.

I chose the gasser.

 

[Slutzk]

Note I question whether very many people are really factoring in what they can afford.

Not even a question. People will sink themselves up to their eyeballs in debt to get a truck they likely dont even need. Alot of times, and people hate hearing this, its ego. I know a few personally. But hey drive what you like. Afford? Questionable for alot of people.

 

[johnmyster]

Maybe I'm ignorant but I assumed that nobody actually paid the price of diesel on the signs. I thought that was just a starting point for negotiations. I paid $2.55/gal for 35 gallons on Sunday.

My MO is $1.00/gal off 35 gallons once or twice a month with grocery store points, use a 5% off credit card, and then TSC Open Roads fleet discount when we are far from home.

You could argue, "but you can do the same for gas." You'd be right, except that $1.00/gal off would be for fewer gallons because of smaller tank, and then no TSC fleet discounts.

 

[Slutzk]

For me it was never about anything except i simply dont need a diesel. Had nothing to do with money and gas i dont factor. My 26ft boat/trailer and filled with gas (50 gallons) is ~6,400ibs. Then in the truck a few tools, gear and 3 passengers with 1 being a 3 year old, lets say someone tags along so 4 passengers. Now way over shooting call it 2000ibs in/on the truck. im at 8,400ibs and i drive and flat roads to the river. Thats it. And again thats over shooting by a bit. Im likely more at 8000ibs total.

Thats the only time my truck really turns on. Not uncommon my truck will sit for 6 weeks at a time on a battery tender. Ill turn it on to go grab beer just to run it and thats it. Itll park again for a while, especially during winter time as im not boating. We have 2 other paid off cars that we drive for work and to get around town for weekends to do or go wherever. That said... I choose gasser.

 

[6100D]

I have been down this road and just ordered a 26 diesel 2500. But for the OP I would go Gas for sure. Have had a 2020 2500 6.4 gas already and know what it can do for our driving style. Am in a 2022 Eco diesel 1500 now as we wait for the 2500. Just need the 2500 for more towing, Not real heavy towing but big box kite enclosed trailer that can be felt pretty good when driving on the interstate. This is the only vehicle we have and if need to be for more shorter trips we will buy a smaller gas then for more local driving. Most of our miles are one way with at least 250 miles in one drive. Most is interstate too. So, we shall see how this goes this time around.

 

[MtnRider]

I agree with all of these answers based on your explanation of what and how youll use your truck in your original post. Gas should be your choice. Goodluck!

Do you work for CNN? Lol. If you are going to quote me use ALL of what I said., not a snippit that makes it look like I agree with you....

 

[Finn5033]

I had the same thoughts as OP. Didn’t need the diesel but I’ve always wanted one. I daily mine to work 80 miles round trip that’s all freeway and then pull my RV/Fish house on trips 10+ times a year. So I figured I’d be able to keep the DPF clean. Well that was the case until about 30k miles and then it started going down hill. My truck does no grocery getting, and I have 50k miles on in two years.

I wanted to get out of it and into a gas truck but I would have been eating 10k of value so for 6k I fixed the problem myself. I am now fully in the camp of not getting a diesel if you don’t need it. If you want it anyway be fully prepared to deal with emissions issues. If you can fix it yourself do it, but if you can’t then it will be a nightmare.

Don’t get me wrong I love the Cummins, I get 20+ mpg on my work commute and 50% better mpg towing the rig but when the time comes for my next truck I won’t be getting another one. I had a 2021 Silverado 3500 with the 6.6 gas engine before this and it pulled my rig fine. I’m sure the 6.4 Hemi would as well. My buddy has a F350 with the 7.3 gas engine and he said it pulls his camper great.

 

[Deleted member 47449]

The OP is in Colorado. Will the OP use 87 Octane gas? Regular is around 30 to 60 cents cheaper than 87 Octane from what I've see at our local Western Colorado fuel stops.

Regular gas in the entire state is 85 Octane. Mid-grade is 87 Octane. Premium is 91 Octane. 87 Octane is usually recommended per the owners manual. Our 2016 Ram 6.4L recommends 89 Octane with a 87 Octane minimum.

Our nearest fuel stop down our mountain highway sells 85 Octane Regular gas for $4.399 and Diesel for $4.699. Higher octane gas isn't sold there. It's one pump. We don't fill-up there due to their mountain high prices, but 14 miles further down our highway out in De Beque Canyon at a remote worn out Exxon truck stop on I-70. The 6.4L gets 85 Octane. Never filled up our 2024 6.7L diesel's 50 gallon tank due to all of the card readers are broken. Just drive it further into the Grand Junction area to fill it.

 

[LeRamona]

Im at 5200 ft. 30 miles down the hill to town at 4700. But I do about 80 on average. Unless I take the scenic 2 lane back road, then it's more like 60 to 65.
But I live 2 miles down a dirt road from the paved road and my mailbox.

We are also about 2 miles from the black top and mail box. Our driveway is .27 miles long. If I were to do 80 anywhere around here, I would definitely roll downhill. Also, since I retired two years ago at 52, I really don't drive too much. My previous truck, a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon saw a whopping 7k miles driven in the year and a half I owned it. For long trips we take my wife's Tiguan 4Motion and get over 30 MPGs. To play around the mountains I drive a '92 YJ.

 

[Deleted member 47449]

We are also about 2 miles from the black top and mail box. Our driveway is .27 miles long. If I were to do 80 anywhere around here, I would definitely roll downhill. Also, since I retired two years ago at 52, I really don't drive too much. My previous truck, a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon saw a whopping 7k miles driven in the year and a half I owned it. For long trips we take my wife's Tiguan 4Motion and get over 30 MPGs. To play around the mountains I drive a '92 YJ.

There's no US Mail delivery here, but then we still pay the same postage for less service. We have a PO Box.

Our driveway is 0.2 miles long with a very steep exit to a plowed between 5 AM to 7 PM highway black top. That's why we have a PW gas besides our diesel. Don't have to plug in the engine block either below -15F. I've chained the PW all four 35's, engaged the lockers, and still have to use the winch.

 

[LeRamona]

There's no US Mail delivery here, but then we still pay the same postage for less service. We have a PO Box.

Our driveway is 0.2 miles long with a very steep exit to a plowed between 5 AM to 7 PM highway black top. That's why we have a PW gas besides our diesel. Don't have to plug in the engine block either below -15F. I've chained the PW all four 35's, engaged the lockers, and still have to use the winch.

For a moment I thought you lived in Siberia. We get good snowstorms here too and our county road does not get plowed by the county, only the black top. Last year my going up our driveway to park, my Gladiator lost traction and slid all the way down from our driveway to the field where our soon to be pond is. I was able to get it out the next day. Normally, I plowed with my tractor but early this year I bought a plow for our UTV and it has been the best snow deterrent there is. We had a forecasted storm calling for about 12 inches, but we got nothing. Snow stopped soon after getting the plow. The plow is still sitting there waiting to be used for the first time. The year prior it snowed over 25 times, and are usually snowed in.

 

[motorhead426]

I was in this same boat last year before ordering mine. I decided gas and here's why...
The only diesel I've owned were some VW's. The newest one I LOVED, never thought I'd sell it. I drove 65 miles each way to work and loved the economy. After a year of owning that car I changed jobs and ended up 16 miles from home. The Regen cycles always started just before I got to work so not great timing and it got annoying after a while. The first winter with the shorter drives I could tell that I wasn't doing that engine any favors. So traded it for a gas version...
On to the Ram choice, I wanted a 3500 for towing and payload capability. I don't tow very often but I need a truck that can when the time comes. It has to be my daily driver and I don't drive hard enough or far enough to get the system good and hot. So between the short trips, constant failures with emission equipment and higher maintenance costs I couldn't justify the cost. I ran the numbers in a spreadsheet for 500,000 miles with approximate economy numbers I hear about online and there is ZERO way to make up the $12,595 dollars for the cummins just in economy. Add on top of that, the increased cost of fluid and filter changes. You will likely be changing the oil twice as often and there is twice as much oil to put in. Fuel filter changes, DEF costs, etc. The list goes on and on. For me specifically, I'd have to install some aftermarket filtration systems for the fuel and oil due to some of the failures I've seen on youtube. Unless you're hauling trailers on a regular basis, or can make money on it for jobs I don't see a logical way to buy the diesel.

 

[Crusty old shellback]

Bottom line, order/buy what makes you happy.

I went looking for a TRX when the wife told me I should get a new truck.

Looked around a few places and everyone had a huge mark up on them, up to $50K over sticker.
Buddy told me about the Power Wagon, so I started looking at them.
Ordered a 75th Annavisary Edition the way I wanted. Cost a lot less than the TRX and had more features.
4 years and 90K miles later and im still smiling.

So think about what you really want and just pull the trigger.

Noone with a 2500 really cares about the gas milage. And how many really buy a diesel as an investment, hoping to break even if they sell it?
Its a tool and a write off. They all loose money as soon as you sign the paper and drive it off the lot.

 

[Deleted member 47449]

Our Power Wagon towing my home made tow wood snow plow before it slid backwards right over it (photo). So I added chains to the front tires and fixed the plow. That plow does fine here. Our climate is Cold Semi-arid. Nobody lives above around 8,500 feet here. It's 35 feet average snowfall just up the highway at 10,000 feet plus.

Our family lives in Tie Siding, Wyoming and Woodland Park, Colorado at 8,000 and 8,500 feet. They both own backhoe tractors. Just the one in Tie Siding is twice the size. Climate there are Sub-arctic and Temperate. Not many people live in a Sub-arctic climate in the lower 48. Got to keep both his 2014 and my 2024 Ram's diesels plugged in while we were working on the home earlier this year at the end of winter. It was way below 0F. Which was kind of a hassle using 325 feet of stiff extension cords.

 

[johnmyster]

Add on top of that, the increased cost of fluid and filter changes. You will likely be changing the oil twice as often and there is twice as much oil to put in. Fuel filter changes, DEF costs, etc. The list goes on and on. For me specifically, I'd have to install some aftermarket filtration systems for the fuel and oil due to some of the failures I've seen on youtube.

I'm not sure why I would change oil twice as often. I agree with gas truck for the OP, but diesel vs gas maintenance costs get hyper catastrophized.

Shocks are the same.
Brake pads are the same.
Transmission fluid and filters, same.
Transfer case and differential services, same.
Cabin air filter and wiper blades, same.
Engine air filter, same.
Tires, same, probably wear faster due to extra weight of truck.
Batteries, double.
Coolant. 6 qts more coolant capacity.

Delta so far - batteries, coolant, and accelerated tire wear.

Oil changes - far more DIY rebates available from Rotella, Delvac, and this year even Delo. I'm doing full syn oil changes with Donaldson filters for less than $55. Factory interval is 15k. 6.4 recommended max interval is 8k. 7 quarts of PUP or M1-FS 0w-40 special hemi oil, and I'm really in the same ballpark. Having a diesel truck means the few available PUP and M1 rebates get used on my cars instead of the truck. Oil changes are a wash.

Fuel filters are ~$110 a set, every 15k miles. I drain them every 2-3k. From 2013 and up the factory filters are really good. Fleetguard nanonet is top tier. The aftermarket setups are not superior and not necessary.

I'm getting 700 miles per gallon of DEF and the pump in town has been at $3.50 a gallon for over a year. Trivial. I'm topping off every two months, generally >$10.

Anti-gel in winter. I've had the same bottle three years now. (Climate dependent.)

CCV filter. The element is $120 and goes 65k miles. Go figure.

The maintenance list doesn't go on and on. It literally ends there. So batteries, coolant, CCV filter, and fuel filters are the real deltas. Three years on that extra battery, five years on that extra bottle of coolant, five years on CCV, and one year per set of fuel filters. Add DEF. $250 a year covers the delta for a DIYer.

Constant emissions failures? My 2014 has had zero emissions parts replaced. I do carry a spare DEF injector. Someday I'll get initiated with a NOx sensor or DEF pump module I'm sure. It did get a turbo actuator under warranty. That's it. My Cummins water pump was $55 (replaced proactively.) What's the cost on a Mopar pump for a 6.4? $200? $300?

 

[MtnRider]

You will likely be changing the oil twice as often and there is twice as much oil to put in.

Actually its the complete opposite. The gas oil change interval is 2x what the diesel is so the reality is you are useing 14 quarts of oil to the diesel's 12 quarts of oil for the same miles traveled.


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