Trash Panda
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Ram Heavy Duty Forum
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Diesel/Gas justification banter?
- Thread starter Pressure_welder
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mdsonofthesouth
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Maybe lifter failures have been blown out of proportion much like they are for the hemi and MDS. The grid heater bolt though Im not sure. Maybe if you clean it out regularly its not an issue? Either way thank you for your input and what matters is we both are happy and datusfued with our trucks
mdsonofthesouth
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The 6.0 made me alot of money replacing injectors then eventually long blocks when it came out. Not to mention the high pressure oil system concerns.
As much as I love having a diesel, this 2025 is my last one for all of the same reasons. Funny that 20 years ago while doing blasting details, every truck on the job site was a diesel. Just did a detail the other day and every single truck from the blasters to the guys doing all the site work had gas trucks. These guys have their trucks idling all day. Those days are long gone now with all of the dpf issues with idling.
lol I don’t do any of that. I just change oil, oil filters and fuel filters at regular intervals and drive it otherwise like I stole it.Maybe lifter failures have been blown out of proportion much like they are for the hemi and MDS. The grid heater bolt though Im not sure. Maybe if you clean it out regularly its not an issue? Either way thank you for your input and what matters is we both are happy and datusfued with our trucks
Rockcrawlindude
a rock crawlin’ dude
130k for a truck is retarded that’s more than I paid for my house
DarkHorse8
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There are so many new diesel trucks where I work that are daily driven and the only vehicle for the owners. Daily driven unloaded with no issues.
jsdoc
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Back to the original question of value - target of the value question being a new diesel truck, I think the premise of buying new is part of what's broken - the "value" has of course never really been there one could argue for diesels / new trucks for the last 10+ years -- in terms of price creep + rapid depreciation first 2-3 years, unless you are a business that uses them continuously and can make sense of that depreciation transferring over to the business as a writeoff, or your tow/use requirements are such that only a diesel can match up (which I think is probably a much tinier segment of this discussion than we think).
My premise there being that for that kind of money, a fellow could do a heck of alot to a solid used truck to make it essentially better than new - including drop in a better than new custom build motor - something you could "actually" trust vs. the lottery of reliability with these new ones post-covid / since we've decided to shove their tailpipe back in their "mouth" and expect good things to happen from obsessing on fractions of a decimel point of exhaust stats rather than work harder on progressively better combusion efficiency, etc.
So otherwise all you're left with is figuring out how to try to extract "value" out of that sticker shock price from the bumper to bumper warranty, newest features / updates, etc. In both respects, that's the part that seems upside down and getting worse to me - the newest diesel mechanical features are essentially bad not good, the warranties are having to be used to manage those issues rather than provide peace of mind (these same issues also takes the trucks off the road unexpectedly / at a much higher frequency than was previously normal -- which for me was 99% of why I'd ever buy new anyway).
If one is dependent on making a payment (vs. self-financing or outright buying), then certainly these new rigs are just digging you a bigger hole than ever due to how fast and insanely high they are - and the warranty (since they are breaking down so much more / so much sooner with emissions related issues) to me is sort of a wash. - my time is worth something to me as well.... You now almost expect to use the warranty, and that's not good.
I have two trucks, a non-towing "highway long-travel / around town basic family utility" truck and an HD truck for occasional heavy haul/tow of something a 1/2 ton has no business doing.
Just traded off my 2007 Tundra to a neighbor - towed hard with it up to it's limit for about 1/3 of it's mileage - it's spent literally 1/2 day in the shop across 17 years for unexpected repair (their AIC valves were failing from the supplier they used on the early production models) and then one day at 100K for the dealership to flush/replace all the fluids. I consider that worth well over $10K of additional value I derived over the >15 yrs I owned that truck.
I decided I wanted to trade up to the nice newer ones while they were still refining the 5.7 V8s -- looked at these new V6's but quickly decided they made me queasy (virtually a 100% completely new stem to stern truck, NOT what got Toyota's reputation where it is (or maybe was....), so I retreated to 2018 low mileage "peach" 1794 model with the V8 (Toyota's King Ranch essentially) -- a Hawaii rig wth low miles that the employer had paid to have shipped as the owner was moved for work here to KC. I "over"paid for that some at about $50K (~35K miles) since it had been brought back here to KC by whoever employed the orig. owner and literally looked and acted like a new truck. Put a fancy touchscreen stereo in (<$1K), so that solved for any remaining new truck envy.... So far, maintenance has been replacing a cable on the rear door (lock issue, my fault I think when upgrading a speaker). Certainly dodged a bullet there since I did take a hard look at those new V6's at the time. I suppose that's kind of the "other" side of the coin of this conversation (little turbo V6's vs. classic pushrod V8s vs. turbodiesels choking on their own exhaust).
The other truck is a (2021) 2500 Ram Hemi picked up this spring - pretty sturdy built engine (certainly "severe duty" intent) with mostly known and limited issues, and the 2018 has the updated transmission folks seem pleased with -- needed to do that occasional HD hauling / towing stuff a 1/2 ton has no business doing, and so it's sort of the same story there - shopped hard for one 4-5 years old in like new condition with 32K on it, "overpaid" perhaps a little at just over 50K (has all the options) and drove a few hundred miles to get it. Yes, I'm more or less ignoring warranty on both of them as they're aging out of factory coverage -- but I'm hedging that by buying something that's proven and Known/predictable.
The other biggie I think with the diesels is not only are they now 6 figures, but they're now ALSO unpredictable. On both my rigs, if I get unucky and the cam eats a lifter on the Hemi or something (very) unexpected happens with the Tundra I'd be 100% prepared to go deep in the pocket to resolve transmission / engine failure on those rigs vs. replacing them, using some top tier soup to nuts engine shop that stands behind their work by doing it correctly (the ultimte irony of what's REALLY wrong here with the factory rigs). In fact, my whole intent is to try NOT to replace them, hopefully baby them a bit and (I'm mid 50's) see how far into retirement I can get with them, spending money to do so if necessary. If comparing against a 6 figure truck, I like my odds.....
So I think a diesel philosophy for me, as a private non-commercial owner, would be the same - perhaps even more extreme than my strategy above - find a solid low mileage example from 10 yrs ago and "over"pay a bit to get it if needed -- or find one that's structurally solid but needs a motor (and thus is likely quite cheap) - and then go have someone like Dave's Auto (Salt Lake City area engine builder on you tube) build me a better than new one with sensible upgrades and "what the factory should have done" mods, etc. Pricey but the money in that case has a purpose and a predictable outcome, by people that want you to succeed. Likely still cheaper all in than a new one, and essentially (after the HD truck is cab-off steam cleaned and inspected stem to stern from the install by mechanics that know and care if it did get a new engine), we'd actually be getting what we used to be expecting by buying new. something predictable and solid from someone who'd stand behind it.
My premise there being that for that kind of money, a fellow could do a heck of alot to a solid used truck to make it essentially better than new - including drop in a better than new custom build motor - something you could "actually" trust vs. the lottery of reliability with these new ones post-covid / since we've decided to shove their tailpipe back in their "mouth" and expect good things to happen from obsessing on fractions of a decimel point of exhaust stats rather than work harder on progressively better combusion efficiency, etc.
So otherwise all you're left with is figuring out how to try to extract "value" out of that sticker shock price from the bumper to bumper warranty, newest features / updates, etc. In both respects, that's the part that seems upside down and getting worse to me - the newest diesel mechanical features are essentially bad not good, the warranties are having to be used to manage those issues rather than provide peace of mind (these same issues also takes the trucks off the road unexpectedly / at a much higher frequency than was previously normal -- which for me was 99% of why I'd ever buy new anyway).
If one is dependent on making a payment (vs. self-financing or outright buying), then certainly these new rigs are just digging you a bigger hole than ever due to how fast and insanely high they are - and the warranty (since they are breaking down so much more / so much sooner with emissions related issues) to me is sort of a wash. - my time is worth something to me as well.... You now almost expect to use the warranty, and that's not good.
I have two trucks, a non-towing "highway long-travel / around town basic family utility" truck and an HD truck for occasional heavy haul/tow of something a 1/2 ton has no business doing.
Just traded off my 2007 Tundra to a neighbor - towed hard with it up to it's limit for about 1/3 of it's mileage - it's spent literally 1/2 day in the shop across 17 years for unexpected repair (their AIC valves were failing from the supplier they used on the early production models) and then one day at 100K for the dealership to flush/replace all the fluids. I consider that worth well over $10K of additional value I derived over the >15 yrs I owned that truck.
I decided I wanted to trade up to the nice newer ones while they were still refining the 5.7 V8s -- looked at these new V6's but quickly decided they made me queasy (virtually a 100% completely new stem to stern truck, NOT what got Toyota's reputation where it is (or maybe was....), so I retreated to 2018 low mileage "peach" 1794 model with the V8 (Toyota's King Ranch essentially) -- a Hawaii rig wth low miles that the employer had paid to have shipped as the owner was moved for work here to KC. I "over"paid for that some at about $50K (~35K miles) since it had been brought back here to KC by whoever employed the orig. owner and literally looked and acted like a new truck. Put a fancy touchscreen stereo in (<$1K), so that solved for any remaining new truck envy.... So far, maintenance has been replacing a cable on the rear door (lock issue, my fault I think when upgrading a speaker). Certainly dodged a bullet there since I did take a hard look at those new V6's at the time. I suppose that's kind of the "other" side of the coin of this conversation (little turbo V6's vs. classic pushrod V8s vs. turbodiesels choking on their own exhaust).
The other truck is a (2021) 2500 Ram Hemi picked up this spring - pretty sturdy built engine (certainly "severe duty" intent) with mostly known and limited issues, and the 2018 has the updated transmission folks seem pleased with -- needed to do that occasional HD hauling / towing stuff a 1/2 ton has no business doing, and so it's sort of the same story there - shopped hard for one 4-5 years old in like new condition with 32K on it, "overpaid" perhaps a little at just over 50K (has all the options) and drove a few hundred miles to get it. Yes, I'm more or less ignoring warranty on both of them as they're aging out of factory coverage -- but I'm hedging that by buying something that's proven and Known/predictable.
The other biggie I think with the diesels is not only are they now 6 figures, but they're now ALSO unpredictable. On both my rigs, if I get unucky and the cam eats a lifter on the Hemi or something (very) unexpected happens with the Tundra I'd be 100% prepared to go deep in the pocket to resolve transmission / engine failure on those rigs vs. replacing them, using some top tier soup to nuts engine shop that stands behind their work by doing it correctly (the ultimte irony of what's REALLY wrong here with the factory rigs). In fact, my whole intent is to try NOT to replace them, hopefully baby them a bit and (I'm mid 50's) see how far into retirement I can get with them, spending money to do so if necessary. If comparing against a 6 figure truck, I like my odds.....
So I think a diesel philosophy for me, as a private non-commercial owner, would be the same - perhaps even more extreme than my strategy above - find a solid low mileage example from 10 yrs ago and "over"pay a bit to get it if needed -- or find one that's structurally solid but needs a motor (and thus is likely quite cheap) - and then go have someone like Dave's Auto (Salt Lake City area engine builder on you tube) build me a better than new one with sensible upgrades and "what the factory should have done" mods, etc. Pricey but the money in that case has a purpose and a predictable outcome, by people that want you to succeed. Likely still cheaper all in than a new one, and essentially (after the HD truck is cab-off steam cleaned and inspected stem to stern from the install by mechanics that know and care if it did get a new engine), we'd actually be getting what we used to be expecting by buying new. something predictable and solid from someone who'd stand behind it.
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DarkHorse8
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I’m not seeing any with a $130,000 price tag.
What I am seeing is 2025 and 2026 6.7 with an MSRP of ~$100,000 being sold new for ~$80,000.
I’m not sure what all the crying is about.
MegaRed
Well-Known Member
I also figure that down the road when a guy sells/trades in a Cummins, the value is such that you can get back much of the original premium spent on the diesel upgrade. A used Cummins equipped Ram is more valuable than a used Hemi equipped Ram.
I did a search on Carvana for a 2020, 2021 and 2022 2500 diesel vs gas and on average the difference was around $7,000 more for the diesel (trim level depended). While it is true you get more on resale, you also spent more buying it, running it and maintaining it. Even with the extra coin at resale, you wouldn't recover the extra expenses incurred. Not by a mile.
The gas vs diesel banter is ALL a moot point. It’s like an engine oil discussion, there is no wrong or right answer, everyone is going to do what makes sense to them. Buy what you want and or can afford. Period.
DarkHorse8
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Buddy of mine I work with bought a new 2025 6.7 Laramie in Forged Blue for $56,000
That’s a great price!
DarkHorse8
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Oh yeah. Don’t know why people are crying. Time is your best friend when buying new which is part of the reason why I haven’t bought one yet.
Rockcrawlindude
a rock crawlin’ dude
OP said the 26 would be “close to $130k” maybe he meant out the door?
DarkHorse8
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That’s just crazy. Unless you have a local dealer that is reliable and honest for many things to include being sure you’re covered for warranty work after installing some aftermarket parts, I’d say shopping nationally is you best bet.
I’ll go anywhere to get a good deal.
That’s a super low option Laramie, I can see that price.
downsc123
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He is from Canada so that 130K was in Canadian dollars
sstoner911
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I am seeing them for around 96K for a Dually Megacab Limited in Arizona. Not sure how you get to 130k unless you are rolling over ALOT of negative equity and have some crazy taxes and dealer add ons.