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Delete discussions

Brutal_HO said:
I reread the original Sandia labs article and it does indicate EGR would still be a part of the system, though it should be relatively soot free. https://www.sandia.gov/labnews/2019/08/29/ducted-fuel-injection/

“Now that we’ve got soot out of the way, there’s no more soot/NOx trade-off,” he said. “So we can add dilution — taking some of the engine exhaust and routing it back to the intake — to get rid of NOx without soot emissions becoming a problem. It’s like a two-for-one deal on reducing pollutants.”
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It's fascinating stuff. Those photos of the heads with and without ducting are pretty telling to how much cleaner it is.
 
My truck recently began having some emissions system issues and thew the "Service DEF system, see dealer" message the other day on the way home. The code has since gone away after driving on the highway for about an hour but im sure itll pop back up at some point in the near future.

That has led me to the thought of deleting the truck - legal ramification aside, I read a ton about the benefits of deleting on the health and reliability of the truck but i'm curious what the potential risks/downsides are. I understand its illegal and will void warranty, Im more curious if there are any mechanical downsides to deleting. Do you just run into trouble when you are trying to make big power? or are there less frequently discussed downsides to a delete?

Appreciate the insights - im pretty ignorant here and just trying to learn.
 
tchur1 said:
My truck recently began having some emissions system issues and thew the "Service DEF system, see dealer" message the other day on the way home. The code has since gone away after driving on the highway for about an hour but im sure itll pop back up at some point in the near future.

That has led me to the thought of deleting the truck - legal ramification aside, I read a ton about the benefits of deleting on the health and reliability of the truck but i'm curious what the potential risks/downsides are. I understand its illegal and will void warranty, Im more curious if there are any mechanical downsides to deleting. Do you just run into trouble when you are trying to make big power? or are there less frequently discussed downsides to a delete?

Appreciate the insights - im pretty ignorant here and just trying to learn.
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Not trying to change your mind about deleting but have you cleaned your DEF injector? They are known to plug up with DEF, I believe there is one connector and 2 bolts to remove. Once you take it off use some warm water and clean the nozzle end only... do not submerse the entire injector in water.

I don't think there are any mechanical disadvantages to deleting. One thing that comes to mind is purchasing quality parts, if you cheap out your exhaust will rust and fall off within a year. Same goes for EGR delete parts, spend the coin and buy quality stuff. Outside of this do your research and purchase well known quality tunes... I'm not talking about the device to load the tunes but the company who actually creates the files. There are several companies north of the border that can take care of you. I have not used him personally but @gyman98 from Valley Center is known to have the best customer service in the industry. He does not post on here much but look him up on Facebook, he will take care of you.
 
tchur1 said:
My truck recently began having some emissions system issues and thew the "Service DEF system, see dealer" message the other day on the way home. The code has since gone away after driving on the highway for about an hour but im sure itll pop back up at some point in the near future.

That has led me to the thought of deleting the truck - legal ramification aside, I read a ton about the benefits of deleting on the health and reliability of the truck but i'm curious what the potential risks/downsides are. I understand its illegal and will void warranty, Im more curious if there are any mechanical downsides to deleting. Do you just run into trouble when you are trying to make big power? or are there less frequently discussed downsides to a delete?

Appreciate the insights - im pretty ignorant here and just trying to learn.
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Aside of the primary issues you mentioned around legality and warranty, the biggest issue comes from non-capable tuners. If a tuner doesn't know what they are doing, you're risking grenading your engine, trans, etc.

Sadly, with the major crackdown from the EPA over the past few years, most of the top tier tuners have given up delete tuning in favor of emissions on. Like it or not, this seems to be the way forward for the time being at least.

On the plus side, most of these modern emissions systems are mostly pretty solid, even when adding power. An emissions system from 2020 is far more reliable than the early days of emissions systems. I know that there are reports of 2022s having more issues than pre 22s, and I believe that may come down mostly due to challenges with sourcing parts during Covid, but it could be unrelated.

I would wager a guess that a emissions on diesel tuned by a reputable tuner will be more reliable than a deleted one tuned by some random person. I don't know the current list of the "go to" delete tuners, and you'll probably be hard pressed to find the quality ones as if anyone is good they are probably "underground". Most folks don't want to risk jail time (case 1, case 2) or pay the crazy fines if caught.
 
Appreciate the insights @UglyViking and @Riddick. I'm not dead set on deleting but just doing my homework in the event I want to go that route. Ive been looking for solid tuners up north and think I have found a couple that have strong reputations and customer support, though I don't name them here.

@Riddick good looks on cleaning the injector. I'll do that this weekend.

My truck for the first 15k miles was super reliable. DPF gauge never moved off 0, regens only happened at 24 hours. Over the last 5k miles or so its been filling the DPF more frequently and regenning every 8-12 hours. I never intended to delete but Im considering it as an option, along with emissions intact tuning, or just leaving it stock. I dont care much for performance gains but want the most reliable truck possible, whatever the best path is to get there.

@Riddick how long/challenging was the whole ECM swap process when you did your truck?
 
tchur1 said:
@Riddick how long/challenging was the whole ECM swap process when you did your truck?
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The ECM swap process itself is not very hard at all, if its your first time I would plan for 1-2 hours. My first time it took me 2 hours really taking my time, the second time I knocked it out in 30 minutes. My ECU came from CP so if you purchase your own you have to send n to them prior to installing.

I ended up bricking my first ECM. The tune file loaded and at the very end I received a checksum error. Calibrated Power was great for customer service and they overnighted me a new ECU. All in for me was 3 business days but this can be done in a day if you start the process in the morning and pre coordinate with your tuner. This link will give you a good overview of the process itself. Every tuners process will be different but if you have any questions feel free to reach out.

Hp Tuners 2022+ Cummins Tune Package Install Instructions

This will help you get the reads to build the tune files for your 22+ Cummins. This installation requires assistance so please call in if you do receive an email with further steps.
knowledge.duramaxtuner.com
 
You do not need to be a rocket scientist to delete the emissions logic from the factory strategy. Any half-way reputable tuner can do this AND KEEP THE STOCK tune as it relates to fueling, boost pressure, and timing (the items that, when turned up, can blow up your motor).

A full delete will allow your motor to live a longer, healthier, cleaner life.
 
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gimmie11s said:
You do not need to be a rocket scientist to delete the emissions logic from the factory strategy. Any half-way reputable tuner can do this AND KEEP THE STOCK tune as it relates to fueling, boost pressure, and timing (the items that, when turned up, can blow up your motor).

A full delete will allow your motor to live a longer, healthier, cleaner life.
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My understanding is that even getting to the emissions logic is a rather complex undertaking. I'll fully admit that I've not tried to find it on my own truck, nor have I ever tuned anything, but my understanding is that you have to basically convert the hex into human readable code/table logic in order to even start that process.

I'd love to understand this more, feel free to PM if you know more but don't want to discuss publicly.
 
Riddick said:
The ECM swap process itself is not very hard at all, if its your first time I would plan for 1-2 hours. My first time it took me 2 hours really taking my time, the second time I knocked it out in 30 minutes. My ECU came from CP so if you purchase your own you have to send n to them prior to installing.

I ended up bricking my first ECM. The tune file loaded and at the very end I received a checksum error. Calibrated Power was great for customer service and they overnighted me a new ECU. All in for me was 3 business days but this can be done in a day if you start the process in the morning and pre coordinate with your tuner. This link will give you a good overview of the process itself. Every tuners process will be different but if you have any questions feel free to reach out.

Hp Tuners 2022+ Cummins Tune Package Install Instructions

This will help you get the reads to build the tune files for your 22+ Cummins. This installation requires assistance so please call in if you do receive an email with further steps.
knowledge.duramaxtuner.com
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Ok good to know. Ive watched a few videos on how to do it and it doesn't seem as bad as I initially thought.

Is there any data suggesting emissions on tuning improves reliability of the emissions system and the truck as a whole?
 
Anti seize the snot out of the def injector bolts, keep them from snapping off in the future.
 
Also be aware that if you delete the truck you may be unable to sell or trade it in. There’ve been a few stories about people running into trouble with that in recent years.
 
tchur1 said:
Ok good to know. Ive watched a few videos on how to do it and it doesn't seem as bad as I initially thought.

Is there any data suggesting emissions on tuning improves reliability of the emissions system and the truck as a whole?
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I don't think tuning improves the reliability of the emissions systems. However, most tuners state or at least CP states their tunes produce less soot which results in less regens. If this is true there is a possibility that tuning will improve reliability but I don't know what data would show this. If you are seeking reliability skip emissions on and delete the truck.
 
jsalbre said:
Also be aware that if you delete the truck you may be unable to sell or trade it in. There’ve been a few stories about people running into trouble with that in recent years.
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Very true, unless you live in Canada! A fellow in NJ was selling his 08 Dodge Ram 2500 and claimed it was deleted. The NJ MVD contacted him and told him he could not sell the truck as is, unless he reinstalled the removed emission components! It was going to cost him $10K to restore the truck since he did not keep the removed components. He ended up parting out the truck and took the body to the wrecking yard. My local dealer said they cannot take in trade a deleted truck, however I'm not sure they really even check. Also recently saw an article that the EPA shut down two vendors on Ebay for selling delete devices, fining millions of $$$, and also going after Ebay for allowing vendors to sell delete devices. Times are changing!
 
jsalbre said:
Also be aware that if you delete the truck you may be unable to sell or trade it in. There’ve been a few stories about people running into trouble with that in recent years.
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This a good point that's been in the back of my mind as well. I wonder how much of an issue this would be selling private party.
Riddick said:
I don't think tuning improves the reliability of the emissions systems. However, most tuners state or at least CP states their tunes produce less soot which results in less regens. If this is true there is a possibility that tuning will improve reliability but I don't know what data would show this. If you are seeking reliability skip emissions on and delete the truck.
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Fair enough. I think (?) I plan on keep this truck for a long time so reliability is my ultimate goal, just frustrating that it takes doing something illegal to get there haha.
 
MtnRider said:
If you keep all your parts none of this is an issue at all........ You can always revert back.

.
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Ya I would not get rid of the OEM parts.
How much benefit is there to removing the EGR vs just turning it off?
 
I have always wondered, how would the emissions systems function after being disabled and not in use for so long, once you did go back to stock? For example EGR...would valves etc be sticking?
Also had same concern with DEF. If not properly drained, cleaned, etc.

Going back to stock always seemed like a giant PITA!
 
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