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CP4 to CP-ISB21S3 (revised CP3) change for 2021 6.7L Diesel Trucks -- Merged Threads

JHeat2500 said:
Something tells me FCA isn't going to swap in a fresh $20k+ engine to save a few hours of labor. If it's already damaged due to a HPFP failure sure, but replacing two years worth of CTDs on the road makes no sense to me.

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Except a few things, #1 write off against the loss, #2 blocks will likely get sold off and revamped as "refurbished" to be sold, #3 it's likely that Bosch and Cummins may both foot some of the bill.

End of the day the question is how much potential future headache is it for them with a long term unknown. Companies like known costs. A company would much prefer to pay 10k in expense now rather than risk paying 2k or 20k later, it's much easier to balance the books.
 
UglyViking said:
Except a few things, #1 write off against the loss, #2 blocks will likely get sold off and revamped as "refurbished" to be sold, #3 it's likely that Bosch and Cummins may both foot some of the bill.

End of the day the question is how much potential future headache is it for them with a long term unknown. Companies like known costs. A company would much prefer to pay 10k in expense now rather than risk paying 2k or 20k later, it's much easier to balance the books.
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Exactly what i am getting at, dollar amount is not the only thing they look at especially when liability comes in to play
 
Cseybert said:
www.lawyer-monthly.com

Hagens Berman: Lawsuit Reveals Fiat Chrysler has no Fix for Dodge Ram CP4 Defect Posing “Imminent Safety Risk” - Lawyer Monthly

Class action highlights NHTSA revelation that FCA has no solution after it recalled 250,000 defective Cummins-equipped turbodiesel trucks DETROIT--(BUSINESS WIRE)--$FCAU #Cummins--Last week, Fiat Chrysler announced the recall of more than 220,000 heavy-duty turbodiesel trucks equipped with a...
www.lawyer-monthly.com www.lawyer-monthly.com
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Thats just click bait and a huge joke also you think they would know the 18s were not affected
 
Cseybert said:
www.lawyer-monthly.com

Hagens Berman: Lawsuit Reveals Fiat Chrysler has no Fix for Dodge Ram CP4 Defect Posing “Imminent Safety Risk” - Lawyer Monthly

Class action highlights NHTSA revelation that FCA has no solution after it recalled 250,000 defective Cummins-equipped turbodiesel trucks DETROIT--(BUSINESS WIRE)--$FCAU #Cummins--Last week, Fiat Chrysler announced the recall of more than 220,000 heavy-duty turbodiesel trucks equipped with a...
www.lawyer-monthly.com www.lawyer-monthly.com
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My favorite part about that is @Epsilon Plus gets a shout as a an "online commentator" for the comment "[t]hese trucks are dropping like flies." (post link) which they even linked in the lawsuit! America today is wild.
 
I'm going to assume FCA pays cummins wayyyyy less than $10k per engine when they are new. Just because we would have to pay a rediculous amount for a new engine doesn't mean FCA does. They get the "buy in bulk" discount lol.
 
I think imaginations are running wild. Replacement engines? I don't think so. The cheapest way to go about this is to develop an adapter kit, whether with a modified 2018-style CP3 or the newer one. There are already many 19-20 Rams driving on the roads with this set-up.

Not proven? Neither is the CP4 and that didn't stop three manufacturers from using it. "proven" is not a relevant concept in a lot of modern vehicles. My guess is that an engineering solution will be developed to reduce install time as much as possible, that will manifest as some sort of adapter. Guys are already doing this work with basic tools in a garage.
 
I agree with Crawlex, I believe all three parties involved will find the cheapest way to fix this. Hopefully it’s something we can all get behind. I know a lot of guys who don’t even know about the Cp4 pump issues. Let’s all hope for the best!
 
Maybe Bosch will produce a CP4 with a keyed plunger that won’t be able to spin in its bore and send shrapnel through the system? Only time will tell, until then speculation is fun.
 
flan said:
Maybe Bosch will produce a CP4 with a keyed plunger that won’t be able to spin in its bore and send shrapnel through the system? Only time will tell, until then speculation is fun.
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I don't know how true it is, but I heard a rumor that the design of a "keyed" plunger was somehow patented for this use, and thus Bosch couldn't use it. I've not been able to find said patent but that is what I heard on a few occasions starting with someone that claimed to work at Cummins or Bosch (I can't recall which). The internet is full of liars so take that for what it's worth.

crawlex said:
I think imaginations are running wild. Replacement engines? I don't think so. The cheapest way to go about this is to develop an adapter kit, whether with a modified 2018-style CP3 or the newer one. There are already many 19-20 Rams driving on the roads with this set-up.

Not proven? Neither is the CP4 and that didn't stop three manufacturers from using it. "proven" is not a relevant concept in a lot of modern vehicles. My guess is that an engineering solution will be developed to reduce install time as much as possible, that will manifest as some sort of adapter. Guys are already doing this work with basic tools in a garage.
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Agreed. As much as I think it would be great to get this fixed "the right way" so long as the mounting is solid I really don't care. I think the thing a lot of people don't realize is that FCA doesn't care about keeping them 1:1 with the 21+ trucks, as they are already a completely different system, the only difference would be the mounting system, and in all reality how often will that fail?
 
UglyViking said:
I don't know how true it is, but I heard a rumor that the design of a "keyed" plunger was somehow patented for this use, and thus Bosch couldn't use it. I've not been able to find said patent but that is what I heard on a few occasions starting with someone that claimed to work at Cummins or Bosch (I can't recall which). The internet is full of liars so take that for what it's worth.


Agreed. As much as I think it would be great to get this fixed "the right way" so long as the mounting is solid I really don't care. I think the thing a lot of people don't realize is that FCA doesn't care about keeping them 1:1 with the 21+ trucks, as they are already a completely different system, the only difference would be the mounting system, and in all reality how often will that fail?
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Patents can be used but Bosch would have to pay the holder. May be the cheapest option when you look at the alternatives. A simple pump swap and ecm tune since it will more than likely be a sym cam design.
 
It's getting too complicated, just use the one from 21+ MY

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Has nobody considered HSS market value in all of this? 19-20 MY trucks are keeping their profits high!
 
I got to admit if they did offer me a deal to trade up to the new truck at no extra cost or minimal extra cost to me I’d take it. I want all the new trailer camera toys that are on the newer trucks as well as the new uconnect that would give me CarPlay wireless.

The deal would have to be though they don’t get my truck until the new one is on the lot ready for me to pick up.
 
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