Clearing Fault Codes/CELs

[Will_T]

This was posted in the thread on the grid heater relay recall and I did not want to take that off topic so I am creating a new thread. I thought of just messaging Jimmy to see what he thought about Banks insistence, but then realized that others may benefit from my confusion on this. Especially others like me who purchased the iDash for its advertised and manual documented ability to display and clear codes. (Of course it was purchased for many other things too, but code clearing was important to me). Hence this new thread and hopefully @Jimmy07 can comment on what the Banks tech support insisted is the way the iDash works.

Background is that with my grid heater relay disconnected, I accidently forgot to push the start button twice to start the truck. The pre-heat countdown ran its course and the truck did not start. I then pressed the start button a 2nd time and it started normally. But there was a CEL after this. My Banks iDash told me the CEL fault code was for abnormal voltage detected in the heater relay circuit. This seems to have happened because as Jimmy described, "Disconnecting (the relay) COULD set a fault if a preheat is called for. The relay control is monitored by the PCM, and when a preheat is called for, the PCM activates the relay and looks for an expected voltage fluctuation." Because this voltage fluctuation/drop was not seen, the fault code was set.

I then "cleared" the code using the iDash and the iDash told me the code was cleared successfully. When I had the iDash recheck for codes, none were found so it gave the appearance of having successfully cleared it. The CEL did not go off though so that is what prompted my question of whether the code had really been cleared and wondering why the CEL did not go off after "clearing" using the iDash. I then turned off and restarted the truck normally and the CEL light was then gone. The iDash just plugs into the OBDII port and as Jimmy described in the quote below, because of this, the iDash maybe did not really clear the code and the CEL disappeared only because this particular code is transient and will be cleared and reset upon restart if the original reason for the code is not present on that subsequent restart.

This is a fault that clears itself after a drive cycle. With your banks idash, is it just plugged straight into the OBD port, or did you also have to plug a connector into the canbus junction block behind the headlight switch?

I replied that the iDash only plugs into the OBD port and not into the canbus junction block and Jimmy said:

If the idash is only plugged into the OBD port, it doesn’t have the capability of clearing faults because of the security gateway. It can receive info from the buses, but it can’t send a command past the gateway. It might SAY it cleared, but it was the fact that the condition wasn’t met to set the fault on the next startup that the CEL wasn’t there.

So that is the backstory and the next part to this story is that I talked at length with two Banks tech support guys this morning and relayed all this to them. I asked if the iDash was really clearing codes or not. I asked about the security gateway or firewall on the new Rams. And I also asked specifically about the need to also be connected via the canbus junction block. Now I can not vouch for the actual knowledge and capability of Banks tech support but they sure talk like they know their stuff, even to the point of inspiring confidence in their knowledge. (Unlike say, most other tech support!)

What Banks told me is that the iDash absolutely does have the ability to clear the codes. They have never heard of having to also be plugged in to the canbus junction block. They also said that it is not unusual for a CEL not to go away after clearing a code until the ignition is cycled again. Banks insisted that if the iDash reported the code as cleared, and then rechecking for codes found none, it had really been cleared. I posited the idea that maybe the iDash only thought the code was cleared because it had run through the process and sent the signal successfully. But maybe that sent signal was really blocked by the firewall gateway Jimmy described. And maybe the reason no code fault was found when I rechecked using the iDash was, because the iDash may only be looking for codes that have been sent to it by the truck, not checking in real time. If that is the case, clearing it from the iDash memory may make the iDash report no codes even though there is still one stored in the truck's computer. Banks told me "no, when you ask the iDash to check for codes, it checks the truck's computer right then, in real time. It does not only look in its own iDash memory for stored codes, if the code was not really cleared, the iDash would pick it up again on the recheck."

So unfortunately I still do not know for sure if my iDash is really clearing codes. It gives the appearance that it is and Banks insists that it is. But on the other hand I have seen Jimmy's advice many times here and I have lots of faith in his extensive knowledge. So I am inclined to believe Jimmy is correct and Banks is not even though I would prefer to believe that my iDash is really able to clear codes. Also seems odd that Banks could be so wrong on this as this is their business every day to design and engineer their products and they "should" know what their products can and can't do. They really insisted that the iDash is truly clearing codes.

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

When you cleared the code with ignition in the RUN position the check engine light will remain lit regardless of a stored code or not. When you cycle to the run position it will flash the check engine light a few times and stay lit if the light is off when the engine is running then there is no codes…. My 30$ cheapy code reader will read and clear codes no issue with no bypass module so i am sure the banks does just fine.

 

[Will_T]

I understand the first part that the CEL will stay lit if the code is cleared with the engine running but I am not sure I follow what you mean by this part:

When you cycle to the run position it will flash the check engine light a few times and stay lit if the light is off when the engine is running then there is no codes.

Thanks!

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

I understand the first part that the CEL will stay lit if the code is cleared with the engine running but I am not sure I follow what you mean by this part:



Thanks!

No you should not clear codes with engine running…. When you get in your truck WITHOUT your foot on the brake press the start button 2x to get to the “RUN” position you will see the engine light do some flashing then stay lit thats the only way you should be clearing codes and even when you clear the code the CEL will remain lit

 

[Will_T]

No you should not clear codes with engine running…. When you get in your truck WITHOUT your foot on the brake press the start button 2x to get to the “RUN” position you will see the engine light do some flashing then stay lit thats the only way you should be clearing codes and even when you clear the code the CEL will remain lit

The CEL will remain lit only until the next time you start the truck, correct? That is what mine did. OR does that depend on what the original, cleared code was?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

The CEL will remain lit only until the next time you start the truck, correct? That is what mine did. OR does that depend on what the original, cleared code was?

No it will stay on anytime you have the ignition on with the engine off… if the light is out when the truck is running then the code is not present

 

[Will_T]

Update: This morning I called Banks to get an updated parameter list for my 2021 6.7. I then also asked again about clearing codes. This tech was a different one than who I talked to as described in the original post of this thread. He said the same thing though. He said he walks people clearing codes on the 2019-2021 6.7s all the time and has never had a code that could not be cleared. And he said he has never had anyone with a separate cable bypassing the gateway and plugging into the canbus junction. So that is weird as it is not how Jimmy describes it and I have learned to trust Jimmy's answers.

I would love to be able to let Banks know if they are not correct. So, the question for anyone reading this is: Has anyone using a Banks iDash had a code that could not be cleared? And if yes, did you get a cable to do as Jimmy describes, and then were able to clear the code?

 

[H3LZSN1P3R]

Update: This morning I called Banks to get an updated parameter list for my 2021 6.7. I then also asked again about clearing codes. This tech was a different one than who I talked to as described in the original post of this thread. He said the same thing though. He said he walks people clearing codes on the 2019-2021 6.7s all the time and has never had a code that could not be cleared. And he said he has never had anyone with a separate cable bypassing the gateway and plugging into the canbus junction. So that is weird as it is not how Jimmy describes it and I have learned to trust Jimmy's answers.

I would love to be able to let Banks know if they are not correct. So, the question for anyone reading this is: Has anyone using a Banks iDash had a code that could not be cleared? And if yes, did you get a cable to do as Jimmy describes, and then were able to clear the code?

You do not need to bypass the security gateway to clear most codes there are a select few you cant clear but thats very uncommon

 

[Will_T]

You do not need to bypass the security gateway to clear most codes there are a select few you cant clear but thats very uncommon

It would be great to have a list of those few. I wonder if such a list exists. In any case, does anyone know any of the codes that require bypassing?

 

[Linked4door]

You do not need to bypass the security gateway to clear most codes there are a select few you cant clear but thats very uncommon

Not the case in my professional experance. I have needed a bypass for damn near ever FCA built in the past 5ish years. What brand and model scan tool so you use? Neither of my autel's will clear codes unless I use my auto authority login (software bypass) credentials or via my kotatech (hardware wiring bypass). Same goes for my bosh scan tool.

Strangest thing I have seen is where my wiTECH won't communicate with either my old 2019 limited or my currant 2022 Laramie. Works with every other FCA I have ever hooked it to though. Anyone ever have issues with the oem tool not being able to read codes?

 

[Will_T]

What brand and model scan tool so you use? Neither of my autel's will clear codes unless I use my auto authority login (software bypass) credentials or via my kotatech (hardware wiring bypass). Same goes for my bosh scan tool.

I have no professional knowledge or experience to draw on as the only one I have used is the iDash by Banks. It "appeared" to clear the one code I had which was because of the disconnected grid relay. Banks says they and their customers clear codes successfully all the time, even emissions related codes. They said sometimes they come back if there really is a persistent issue, but they are off until then. My concern is being 150 miles from the nearest dealer and having an emissions code and message that I have 100 miles to limp mode. If I can clear it a few times and it does not come back on for several miles each time, maybe I would have some hope of not being stranded in the middle of nowhere with a travel trailer attached.

Banks also insisted they have never had a tech support request to clear a code on a 2019-2021 6.7 that they could not clear successfully. I said in my original post and the follow up only what Banks has told me. My experience with Banks is such that I would not normally question what they tell me. The 4 or 5 times I have had to contact them with a tech support question about a product they have always had a quick answer and it has been spot on. But on this issue, because Jimmy has stated the need for the bypass, I questioned them at length, twice, and they held firm. That is why actual experience like yours is a help to know. For anyone clearing a code successfully or unsuccessfully, it might help to know which exact codes were involved. That way if it post number 8 above is correct, we can maybe see a pattern?

 

[Linked4door]

I have no professional knowledge or experience to draw on as the only one I have used is the iDash by Banks. It "appeared" to clear the one code I had which was because of the disconnected grid relay. Banks says they and their customers clear codes successfully all the time, even emissions related codes. They said sometimes they come back if there really is a persistent issue, but they are off until then. My concern is being 150 miles from the nearest dealer and having an emissions code and message that I have 100 miles to limp mode. If I can clear it a few times and it does not come back on for several miles each time, maybe I would have some hope of not being stranded in the middle of nowhere with a travel trailer attached.

Banks also insisted they have never had a tech support request to clear a code on a 2019-2021 6.7 that they could not clear successfully. I said in my original post and the follow up only what Banks has told me. My experience with Banks is such that I would not normally question what they tell me. The 4 or 5 times I have had to contact them with a tech support question about a product they have always had a quick answer and it has been spot on. But on this issue, because Jimmy has stated the need for the bypass, I questioned them at length, twice, and they held firm. That is why actual experience like yours is a help to know. For anyone clearing a code successfully or unsuccessfully, it might help to know which exact codes were involved. That way if it post number 8 above is correct, we can maybe see a pattern?

With the newer FCA vehicles that have a security gateway you can read codes but can't clear any unless you getthrough the firewall with either a hardware of software bypass.. It's not a matter what codes can be cleared or not. If it has a security gateway its going to block any codes from being cleared. Even history codes that are not hard faults anymore. If banks has found a way around this I would absolutely love to know how they did it.

Not talking FCA, but I know (first hand experience) with GM and honda you can "clear" faults with an aftermarket scan tool and once you hook up rhe oem scan tool the faults are still there. Sometimes even faults the aftermarket tool didn't see. I wonder if something similar is happening with banks and the ram?

I have been on the fence about getting one of these for a while. My interest has definitely peaked. I will get one and play around with it at work and see what happens. Will be clear with banks and then hookup the wiTECH afterwords to see what happens.

 

[Will_T]

With the newer FCA vehicles that have a security gateway you can read codes but can't clear any unless you get through the firewall with either a hardware of software bypass.. It's not a matter what codes can be cleared or not. If it has a security gateway its going to block any codes from being cleared. Even history codes that are not hard faults anymore. If banks has found a way around this I would absolutely love to know how they did it.

This is pretty much what I have told Banks that I have seen and heard. Banks just says no, they clear codes every day on the 2019-2021 6.7. Hopefully I will never have to find out on my own truck! I do know that when I had the CEL and codes from waiting to start after disconnecting the grid relay, I went through the Banks procedure to clear it. The CEL light went out and the iDash no longer read the codes as having been set. When I started the truck the correct way the next time the code did not come back. Someone said that may have all been because that particular code is transient and will not stay on if the problem is not there on the next start. However, once the CEL did come on, I pretty sure I did shut off and restart the truck once on the way home and the CEL stayed on. It only went away once I cleared it through the iDash menu. I don't know what to think but of course it only matters if I end up being one of the unlucky ones that has a code show up.

 

[Linked4door]

This is pretty much what I have told Banks that I have seen and heard. Banks just says no, they clear codes every day on the 2019-2021 6.7. Hopefully I will never have to find out on my own truck! I do know that when I had the CEL and codes from waiting to start after disconnecting the grid relay, I went through the Banks procedure to clear it. The CEL light went out and the iDash no longer read the codes as having been set. When I started the truck the correct way the next time the code did not come back. Someone said that may have all been because that particular code is transient and will not stay on if the problem is not there on the next start. However, once the CEL did come on, I pretty sure I did shut off and restart the truck once on the way home and the CEL stayed on. It only went away once I cleared it through the iDash menu. I don't know what to think but of course it only matters if I end up being one of the unlucky ones that has a code show up.

Could be timing also. Prime example below:

Disconnect my headlight, causes active fault for headlight and tuenaignal.

Plug light back in with out operating the light or tuensignal. The fault is still active and the lights don't work

Turn on turnsignal, does not turn on, blinks fast on dash as if bulb is burnt out, fault still active

Wait a few seconds (upto 25sec in my experience) with light still turned on but not working

After the alloted time has passed the blinker speed slows to normal speed flash and it actually turns on in the headlight. Fualt now turns to a history fault.

These newer FCA vehicles take a few seconds for re-initialization after something was disconnected. Same thing for power windows, courtesy lights, rear lights, door locks, ect.

 

[diesel_driver_3500]

I can chime in on this myself. I have 2021 SB 3500 4x4 H.O. I ordered the truck and received it in May of 2021, just about the time that the first warnings of the faulty grid heater relays surfaced. When I read about the bad relays, I disconnected mine from the battery and waited patiently for the "fix" to be announced. That was a joke! I decided to wait longer for a more permanent fix, but even when the new relays were available, I thought those were a long shot solution.

I'm one of those that refuses to take my truck to the dealer for anything, including warranty work. I continued to use the double tap method for starting the truck, which was not needed very often as it is always parked inside a fairly warm garage. During this time, I purchased an iDash from Banks, mainly for any issues that might pop up relating to the DEF system.

Over the last few weeks, the double tap method has stopped working due to the weather being especially cold, even in the garage. As you know, the heater try's to activate and once it has cycled three times without sensing a draw at the relay, it triggers a CEL and sets a code. The iDash clears this code every time without issue.

I did purchase a KAODTech bypass cable and a code reader before I realized that the iDash would do the same, but I never installed the cable or hooked up the code reader.

Bottom line, the iDash works great without the need for a bypass cable and standalone code reader. It may have limits as to what codes it can clear, but so far so good!

 

[Will_T]

Over the last few weeks, the double tap method has stopped working due to the weather being especially cold, even in the garage. As you know, the heater try's to activate and once it has cycled three times without sensing a draw at the relay, it triggers a CEL and sets a code. The iDash clears this code every time without issue.

I had the same thought but then was not so sure it was the iDash clearing it. I did clear it I think once by going through the iDash. But then there were a couple of times it happened and I just left it and after the next normal start, the CEL light went off on its own. I have not thought about this in a long time as the double tap has worked whenever the relay is disconnected. So I am not sure if when I did it way back when if the the iDash actually did it or it cleared itself.

I don't remember anyone saying they have been able to clear a different code using the iDash without the bypass cable but it would be interesting if it has been done.

When you did it, did you do it without the engine on, and see the light go off right then? Or did it go away after the next engine start?

 

[Linked4door]

I had the same thought but then was not so sure it was the iDash clearing it. I did clear it I think once by going through the iDash. But then there were a couple of times it happened and I just left it and after the next normal start, the CEL light went off on its own. I have not thought about this in a long time as the double tap has worked whenever the relay is disconnected. So I am not sure if when I did it way back when if the the iDash actually did it or it cleared itself.

I don't remember anyone saying they have been able to clear a different code using the iDash without the bypass cable but it would be interesting if it has been done.

When you did it, did you do it without the engine on, and see the light go off right then? Or did it go away after the next engine start?

FWIW, I wouldn’t recommend having the engine running when clearing faults. Depending on the fault and module, it will not clear. Even wen using wiTECH. It can acurally cause more codes by doing this.

 

[CdnHO]

I ended up with a TopDon Phoenix Elite and purchased the Auto Auth for a year. Not realizing that my by-pass cable would have done the job. However, my bypass cable doesn't fit on all FCA vehicles so not all is lost since I end up working on friends' vehicles as well. And it was only 59 bucks a year I think.